Inclusion of LGBT Christians

[DavidTree]

It's a double standard because the resurrected bodies don't have sex.

One group does what ever it wants and lords it over the other group.

The restricted group is expected to act as if they are already in the resurrected bodies.

It cannot be a double standard because there are TWO separate Environments by which the Standard changes.

You have a earthbound standard = "Male Female created HE them" = Genesis and Gospel

HEAVENLY Standard there are no females = Luke 20:35
Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

 

[Frank Russell]

It cannot be a double standard because there are TWO separate Environments by which the Standard changes.

You have a earthbound standard = "Male Female created HE them" = Genesis and Gospel

HEAVENLY Standard there are no females = Luke 20:35
Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Even if you are ignoring the double standard, God sees it for what it is. Hypocrisy like this is what caused the ancient faith to fall into captivity, we are no different.

 

[TibiasDad]

The same churches that apply this teaching against homosexuality "because from the beginning it was not so"

Do not apply the same measures and attitudes towards divorcees, since "from the beginning it was not so."

The hypocrisy of this spiritual situation is causing yet another rift that tears the church apart.

Whatever you believe, kindly be consistent.

The difference is God allowed for divorce but has never allowed sexual immorality of any kind! It’s not an Apple to Apple comparison.

Doug

 

[civic]

The difference is God allowed for divorce but has never allowed sexual immorality of any kind! It’s not an Apple to Apple comparison.

Doug

Ditto

 

[Frank Russell]

The difference is God allowed for divorce but has never allowed sexual immorality of any kind! It’s not an Apple to Apple comparison.

Doug

Jesus when speaking in the gospels said divorce was allowed because people's hearts were hardened, and advised that remarrying resulted in adultery.

The reason was, "because from the beginning it was not so"

Thus the creation covenant, trumped a concession provided due to man's sin.

Thus the insistence on a higher standard for homosexual people (be a eunuch or get out) is hypocritical, since the same standard is not enforced on people with heterosexual desires. It is comparable since the reasoning against homosexuality is resonant with "from the beginning it was not so."

Thus the need for consistency, can't expect favor from God when hypocrisy is covered with excuses.

 

[TibiasDad]

Jesus when speaking in the gospels said divorce was allowed because people's hearts were hardened,

True enough!

and advised that remarrying resulted in adultery.

But the purpose of Jesus’s rebuttal to the teachers of the Law was that they felt they could divorce their wives for any reason at all. Jesus clarified the point by excluding divorce for any reason other than the spouse having committed adultery. For a man to marry a woman who was divorced for committing adultery, he would then become an adulterer.

Nothing is said regarding the innocent party, be it the wife or husband, regarding remarriage. But Paul, leaves the door open in 1 Cor 7 for a believer whose unbelieving spouse chooses to leave them.

Doug

 

[Frank Russell]

Nothing is said regarding the innocent party, be it the wife or husband, regarding remarriage. But Paul, leaves the door open in 1 Cor 7 for a believer whose unbelieving spouse chooses to leave them.

Nothing is also said for people born with attraction to the same gender.

 

[Frank Russell]

Paul, leaves the door open in 1 Cor 7 for a believer whose unbelieving spouse chooses to leave them.

To divorce, yes. However, based on the discussion Paul is having. It is better to not be tied down in the relationship and fully devoted to God. So it is a wonder why divorcees are not given the same standard to follow as those forbidden to marry?

 

[TibiasDad]

To divorce, yes. However, based on the discussion Paul is having. It is better to not be tied down in the relationship and fully devoted to God. So it is a wonder why divorcees are not given the same standard to follow as those forbidden to marry?

Paul’s personal preference is that it is best to stay unmarried (and thus, sexually inactive). It is not a command of God, or of Paul himself. The admonition is to remain single if you can control your sexual desires, but if not to marry so as to not fall into sin. This is applicable to both male and female, and logically it should be the same in either the case of an unmarried (never married before or widow/widowers) person or an innocent one divorced from an adulterous spouse or a believer whose unbelieving spouse has chosen to leave.

Sexual immorality is not condoned in any sense or circumstance, but that is not the case with divorce.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Nothing is also said for people born with attraction to the same gender.

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.(ESV)

Doug

 

[Frank Russell]

but that is not the case with divorce.

How so?

 

[Frank Russell]

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.(ESV)

Doug

Who then can be saved?

 

[TibiasDad]

Who then can be saved?

Those who repent and turn from their sinful ways and trust in Christ by faith.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

How so?

I’ve already told you this in the previous post.

Doug

 

[Frank Russell]

I’ve already told you this in the previous post.

Doug

You didn't establish that the two things are different, however.

Thanks for sharing your answers.

Logic of bible only produces so many answers.

 

[Frank Russell]

Those who repent and turn from their sinful ways and trust in Christ by faith.

Doug

But if this thread is any indication, people sin a lot, even when they're repenting.

I discern the answer is deeper than that.

 

[Wilber]

While it is true that many “gay Christians” have been wounded by the church, and while the church has often failed miserably in reaching out with compassion to LGBT people, the greatest possible expression of love is to tell people God’s truth, knowing that His ways are best.

Jesus reaffirmed and deepened the sexual morals of the Law. He stated that all sexual acts outside of marriage defile us, and He stated emphatically that marriage as God intended referred to the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

 

[Frank Russell]

He stated emphatically that marriage as God intended referred to the lifelong union of one man and one woman.

I think that's part of the point here.

People are insisting that we give a concession for human sin for divorcees, but not homosexuals.

The other direction is available also.

But consistency is important.

Nothing riles God up like hypocrisy.

 

[Wilber]

The reason it's not hypocritical is because two totally different topics. Divorce has nothing to do with homosexuality. That's like saying God condones divorce so homicide should be included also. I mean look at all the poor people convicted of homicide that are locked up in prison some sitting on death row.

Before you can determine what is right and wrong, you have to know that there really is right and wrong. In the case of divorce and homosexuality they're both wrong. Divorce in the family causes an extreme amount of damage, especially to the children.

God is just, loving, patient, merciful, generous—all that is good comes from Him and is a reflection of His character. Now God’s perfectly good nature is expressed toward us in the form of moral commandments, which constitute our moral duties. We really are morally obligated to do certain things and not to do others. Morality isn’t just in your mind. It’s real.

To condone sexual immorality as a Christian is the real form of hypocrisy. What does the Bible say about it?

In Leviticus 18.22 it says that it is an abomination for a man to lie with another man as with a woman. In Lev. 20.13 the death penalty is prescribed in Israel for such an act, along with adultery, incest, and bestiality.

Then there is the story in Genesis 19 of the attempted gang rape of Lot’s visitors by the men of Sodom, from which our word sodomy derives. God destroyed the city of Sodom because of their wickedness.

Seems like homosexual behavior is in God’s sight a serious sin. Also in Romans 1.24-28. Here Paul talks about how people have turned away from the Creator God and begun to worship instead false gods of their own making. He says,

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1.24-28

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think that's part of the point here.

People are insisting that we give a concession for human sin for divorcees, but not homosexuals.

Divorce is final. Is homosexuality final?

The other direction is available also.

But consistency is important.

Nothing riles God up like hypocrisy.

Is love pure? Notice the appeal to a pure heart!

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Notice also how love doesn't rejoice in sin.

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;