If you're going to reject the atonement, be consistent—REJECT IT ALL.

[Dizerner]

Perhaps you can provide a list of anyone who stated that?

Anyone who says Jesus suffered less than what I deserved for my sins, has logically said this.

There is no way around that fact.

 

[Dizerner]

Where does the NT teach justice was served at the cross? You made it up

It says the requirements of the Law, which is justice, was nailed on the Cross.

 

[Dizerner]

Why not see you in heaven at some point ?

Is there a reason you said judgement seat and not heaven ?

There is judgment for Christians in heaven, and for some, very serious judgment.

People seem to think that forgiveness means no serious discipline from God.

I am only here to warn people to take the Judgment Seat of Christ more seriously.

If you deny Christ paid the price of your sin in any sense, you will not be in heaven—at all.

 

[Dizerner]

DO YOU BELIEVE that when Jesus died on the cross that he went to HELL that is the place where people are tormented? Do you believe he was there three days and nights? If you don't they would say, and I've heard some say that to those who don't believe that, that you think if Jesus just suffered a little bit it would be enough to make sin go away. So I'm interested....how do YOU answer that.

Jesus took the exact amount of suffering we deserved in hell, in a moment on the Cross, in a timeless sense.

It does not have to be measured in time units, that is an arbitrary measurement.

 

[civic]

Anyone who says Jesus suffered less than what I deserved for my sins, has logically said this.

There is no way around that fact.

He did not suffer hell or separation from the Father.

Next fallacy

 

[civic]

Jesus took the exact amount of suffering we deserved in hell, in a moment on the Cross, in a timeless sense.

It does not have to be measured in time units, that is an arbitrary measurement.

That’s heretical

 

[Dizerner]

That’s heretical

No, it's the Gospel.

Jesus bore my sins.

 

[Dizerner]

He did not suffer hell or separation from the Father.

Next fallacy

Jesus suffered what I deserved.

And thank you for admitting that you and Tom lied about me by saying I "can't" provide a list.

When I clearly did.

 

[civic]

No, it's the Gospel.

Jesus bore my sins.

Not hell or separation from God. You are adding to the gospel which makes it a false gospel

 

[Dizerner]

Penal Substitution theory blown up sky high by Jay Dyer:

CC: @civic @Wrangler @Fred @praise_yeshua @dizerner

I'm extremely familiar with Dyer's understanding, and in fact, it is not the universal EO understanding.

He is very confused from depending too much upon early church fathers and human philosophy instead of God's Word.

Although he is right that hell is God's presence.

 

[Dizerner]

Not hell or separation from God. You are adding to the gospel which makes it a false gospel

No, it maintains God's justice and holiness, and allows God's mercy to still be just.

Justice and mercy met at the Cross.

 

[civic]

Jesus suffered what I deserved.

And thank you for admitting that you and Tom lied about me by saying I "can't" provide a list.

When I clearly did.

Nope that’s nowhere found in scripture that He suffered hell or separation from the Father

Next fallacy

 

[Dizerner]

Nope that’s nowhere found in scripture that He suffered hell or separation from the Father

Next fallacy

It absolutely is, it's a clear logical deduction just like the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

Christ's cup of ransom in his Blood for the forgiveness of sins, was in our place.

The Law was fulfilled at the Cross according to Colossians 2.

Which you just conveniently ignore again, and again, and again, and again.

 

[civic]

It absolutely is, it's a clear logical deduction just like the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

Christ's cup of ransom in his Blood for the forgiveness of sins, was in our place.

The Law was fulfilled at the Cross according to Colossians 2.

Which you just conveniently ignore again, and again, and again, and again.

A false gospel

 

[Dizerner]

A false gospel

I know him in whom I have believed.

You will discover you have twisted God's Word, misled his people, and resisted his Spirit.

And I will fight the false doctrine you espouse, the twisting of God's Word, until the day I die.

 

[civic]

I know him in whom I have believed.

You will discover you have twisted God's Word, misled his people, and resisted his Spirit.

And I will fight the false doctrine you espouse, the twisting of God's Word, until the day I die.

I know Him and the gospel according to scripture in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.

You are both adding and taking away from the gospel which Paul says is accursed in Galatians 1:6-9.

 

[TomL]

Anyone who says Jesus suffered less than what I deserved for my sins, has logically said this.

There is no way around that fact.

Perhaps you can provide a list of anyone who stated that?

 

[synergy]

I'm extremely familiar with Dyer's understanding, and in fact, it is not the universal EO understanding.

What do you think is the universal EO understanding?

He is very confused from depending too much upon early church fathers and human philosophy instead of God's Word.

Where did you see any clash between what Dyer said and what the Bible writes?

Although he is right that hell is God's presence.

God's presence is hell for those who resist God. It's paradise for those who love God

 

[civic]

Perhaps you can provide a list of anyone who stated that?

It’s a strawman

 

[praise_yeshua]

This...

This is the entire point of the atonement.

Justice damns.

Me or Christ.

Christ is alive. Your flavor of "justice" requires eternal damnation for sin.

If you're going to tell this lie you have going, then at least keep it straight as you can.