Humility And Calvinism?

[civic]

I am trying to have an honest discussion about Paul's teaching in Colossians, in search of Biblical Truth. Like the Jesus "of the Bible", Paul treated God's judgments, statutes and commandments differently than he treated doctrines and traditions of religious men. This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth. You make no distinction between God's Spoken judgments, statutes and commandments, from the religious traditions of wicked men, whose father was the devil. Treating God's Words and Judgments as if they are the same as the Pharisees traditions. Even going so far as to call God's Laws, "Rudiments of this world". Paul doesn't do that, although you preach to others that he does.

According to Paul, there are things which exist in this world that God has deemed NOT food. Blood, meat from strangled animals to name just a couple. There are also maggots, slugs, Pigs, dogs, etc. that God also deems "not food". If you want to know what God's judgments are for His Children, you can find them in the Gospel of Christ where it is written "The Just shall live by Faith". In Col. 2, Paul said to the Faithful not to let others judge them for their obedience concerning His Feasts, and what HE teaches His children concerning what is and is not food.

The Jesus of the Bible also tells me not to worry about these things, but to "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, and all these things will be added to me.

Jesus didn't say, "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness", and then reject them so you can keep your own adopted religious traditions. But that is what you are promoting.



But Doug, you twist the Words of Christ concerning the Traditions of the Pharisees, like washing hands a certain way that Jesus spoke to, and you use this event to justify your rejection of God's instruction to "Abstain" from eating certain things.

Again, to me it's about what is actually written. Disobedience to God, dishonor towards God, unbelief in God, these all come from within and defile a man. Eating bread with unwashed hands doesn't. How is it you cannot see this glaring truth of Jesus' teaching?



The hypocrisy is astounding. You, as a father, claim the right to define for your children what is and what is not food. And you do not allow your children to just blow you off and reject your instruction simply because the dog poop looks like chocolate. You have a good reason to make these judgments for your children, even though they don't understand them at the time.

But you deny the God and Father of us all the same right and obligation, who created everything in the first place, to direct HIS Children as to what is holy and what is not holy. Implying that God isn't smart enough, or wise enough to direct "YOU" in the "way" that you should go. But Wesley is, the Pope is, and for many, Calvin is.

Jesus didn't do this in Mark 7, and Paul didn't do this in Col. 2. You twist their words to imply that they did, to justify your own traditions, but when an honest examination of Scriptures is engaged in, they did no such thing.

As Paul teaches, you are a servant to whomever you "Yield yourself" a servant to obey.

The purpose of my posts is to examine what the Scriptures actually say. I understand perfectly why Paul said to the Church of God not to let men judge them in their obedience and voluntary humility towards God and His judgments, as they are shadows of things we all contend with in our lives. And I also understand why Paul, in the same Chapter, told the same believers to "Beware" of the philosophies and traditions of the men of this world. The men who promote the religions of this world have judged and ridiculed, even killed the "children of obedience" since Cain killed Abel. Paul was well versed on how this world's religious men treated those who "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", like Stephen for example. Who you would call a "Legalists" and a "Judaizer", even though you can't define Judaism.

What if God actually knows what HE is doing? What if His Commandments are written "For our sakes no doubt" as Paul teaches?

Someone should ask these questions for the edification of the brethren, even if it might offend some of them.

Your hypocrisy is duly noted. You are a legalist like the Pharisees in Jesus day with the same self righteousness Jesus rebuked them for in His day.

It’s time you start believing in the New Testament, the New Covenant.

The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshiping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[TibiasDad]

I am trying to have an honest discussion about Paul's teaching in Colossians, in search of Biblical Truth. Like the Jesus "of the Bible", Paul treated God's judgments, statutes and commandments differently than he treated doctrines and traditions of religious men. This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth. You make no distinction between God's Spoken judgments, statutes and commandments, from the religious traditions of wicked men, whose father was the devil. Treating God's Words and Judgments as if they are the same as the Pharisees traditions. Even going so far as to call God's Laws, "Rudiments of this world". Paul doesn't do that, although you preach to others that he does.

According to Paul, there are things which exist in this world that God has deemed NOT food. Blood, meat from strangled animals to name just a couple. There are also maggots, slugs, Pigs, dogs, etc. that God also deems "not food". If you want to know what God's judgments are for His Children, you can find them in the Gospel of Christ where it is written "The Just shall live by Faith". In Col. 2, Paul said to the Faithful not to let others judge them for their obedience concerning His Feasts, and what HE teaches His children concerning what is and is not food.

The Jesus of the Bible also tells me not to worry about these things, but to "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, and all these things will be added to me.

Jesus didn't say, "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness", and then reject them so you can keep your own adopted religious traditions. But that is what you are promoting.



But Doug, you twist the Words of Christ concerning the Traditions of the Pharisees, like washing hands a certain way that Jesus spoke to, and you use this event to justify your rejection of God's instruction to "Abstain" from eating certain things.

Again, to me it's about what is actually written. Disobedience to God, dishonor towards God, unbelief in God, these all come from within and defile a man. Eating bread with unwashed hands doesn't. How is it you cannot see this glaring truth of Jesus' teaching?



The hypocrisy is astounding. You, as a father, claim the right to define for your children what is and what is not food. And you do not allow your children to just blow you off and reject your instruction simply because the dog poop looks like chocolate. You have a good reason to make these judgments for your children, even though they don't understand them at the time.

But you deny the God and Father of us all the same right and obligation, who created everything in the first place, to direct HIS Children as to what is holy and what is not holy. Implying that God isn't smart enough, or wise enough to direct "YOU" in the "way" that you should go. But Wesley is, the Pope is, and for many, Calvin is.

Jesus didn't do this in Mark 7, and Paul didn't do this in Col. 2. You twist their words to imply that they did, to justify your own traditions, but when an honest examination of Scriptures is engaged in, they did no such thing.

As Paul teaches, you are a servant to whomever you "Yield yourself" a servant to obey.

The purpose of my posts is to examine what the Scriptures actually say. I understand perfectly why Paul said to the Church of God not to let men judge them in their obedience and voluntary humility towards God and His judgments, as they are shadows of things we all contend with in our lives. And I also understand why Paul, in the same Chapter, told the same believers to "Beware" of the philosophies and traditions of the men of this world. The men who promote the religions of this world have judged and ridiculed, even killed the "children of obedience" since Cain killed Abel. Paul was well versed on how this world's religious men treated those who "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", like Stephen for example. Who you would call a "Legalists" and a "Judaizer", even though you can't define Judaism.

What if God actually knows what HE is doing? What if His Commandments are written "For our sakes no doubt" as Paul teaches?

Someone should ask these questions for the edification of the brethren, even if it might offend some of them.

Rom 14:14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself…
16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit…

20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

1Tim 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

1Cor 8:8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Doug

 

[civic]

Rom 14:14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself…
16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit…

20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

1Tim 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

1Cor 8:8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Doug

Amen brother

 

[Studyman]

Rom 14:14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself…

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

This is true, just as nothing is unholy of itself. What makes something Unholy or Unclean is God's Judgment regarding them. Blood doesn't make itself unclean for food. Maggots or pigs doesn't make themselves unclean for food. Sheep doesn't make themselves clean for food.

How do I know what is Holy and what is Clean then? Here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. "Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, and all these things will be added to you".

Paul doesn't teach against this Truth in Colossians or Romans.

16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit…

Yes, the Kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit of God. Would Paul then serve blood and animals strangled to the weak in Faith? Of course not!! Why? Because of GOD's Judgment concerning them. This is simply undeniable truth.

20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.

If a man believes eating bread with unwashed hands defiles the bread, would you then serve bread to the weak in faith, with unwashed hands?

Of course not. Would Paul serve him a glass of blood to drink? Or the meat of a strangled chicken? Of course not! Why not? Because of GOD's Judgment concerning them.

Come on Doug. Seek Biblical Truth, not self-justification.

1Tim 4:1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and "follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

This is why Jesus and Paul taught me to stay away from your religion, and Civic's. You guys make such wicked judgments against God. You are now implying that by "Yielding myself" a servant to obey God, I am "yielding myself" "to deceiving spirits", and by honoring God and walking in His Judgments as HE, Jesus and Paul "instructs", I am following "things taught by demons." And Moses and the Prophets are now "Hypocritical liars" who consciences have been seared with a hot iron.

But you guys, who have rejected God's Judgments and created your own. Who have rejected God's Feasts, and created your own high days, your own righteousness, your own definition of Holy and Clean and your own image of God after the likeness of some random man, you guys are the true believers.

Is. 5: 20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

What "Foods" did God create to be received with thanksgiving? Blood? Strangled goats? Maggots? Dogs?

Who are those who believe and know the Truth? Children of obedience, or children of disobedience?

Of course you can't answer.

4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Where did the Word of God consecrate the drinking of blood? Or the consumption of maggots, dog's, pigs or slugs or animals strangled?

1Cor 8:8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Doug

True, but if God says blood is not food, don't eat it and we tell God to go pound sand, we will eat whatever our flesh desires because we do not recognize God's authority, even you must consider that men who do this are worse off than men who trust God and recognize His Authority.

Is. 59: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

 

[civic]

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

This is true, just as nothing is unholy of itself. What makes something Unholy or Unclean is God's Judgment regarding them. Blood doesn't make itself unclean for food. Maggots or pigs doesn't make themselves unclean for food. Sheep doesn't make themselves clean for food.

How do I know what is Holy and what is Clean then? Here is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches. "Seek Ye first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, and all these things will be added to you".

Paul doesn't teach against this Truth in Colossians or Romans.




Yes, the Kingdom of God is a matter of righteousness peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit of God. Would Paul then serve blood and animals strangled to the weak in Faith? Of course not!! Why? Because of GOD's Judgment concerning them. This is simply undeniable truth.



If a man believes eating bread with unwashed hands defiles the bread, would you then serve bread to the weak in faith, with unwashed hands?

Of course not. Would Paul serve him a glass of blood to drink? Or the meat of a strangled chicken? Of course not! Why not? Because of GOD's Judgment concerning them.

Come on Doug. Seek Biblical Truth, not self-justification.



This is why Jesus and Paul taught me to stay away from your religion, and Civic's. You guys make such wicked judgments against God. You are now implying that by "Yielding myself" a servant to obey God, I am "yielding myself" "to deceiving spirits", and by honoring God and walking in His Judgments as HE, Jesus and Paul "instructs", I am following "things taught by demons." And Moses and the Prophets are now "Hypocritical liars" who consciences have been seared with a hot iron.

But you guys, who have rejected God's Judgments and created your own. Who have rejected God's Feasts, and created your own high days, your own righteousness, your own definition of Holy and Clean and your own image of God after the likeness of some random man, you guys are the true believers.

Is. 5: 20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!



What "Foods" did God create to be received with thanksgiving? Blood? Strangled goats? Maggots? Dogs?

Who are those who believe and know the Truth? Children of obedience, or children of disobedience?

Of course you can't answer.



Where did the Word of God consecrate the drinking of blood? Or the consumption of maggots, dog's, pigs or slugs or animals strangled?



True, but if God says blood is not food, don't eat it and we tell God to go pound sand, we will eat whatever our flesh desires because we do not recognize God's authority, even you must consider that men who do this are worse off than men who trust God and recognize His Authority.

Is. 59: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The Law was for the nation of Israel, the Jews not the Gentiles. You are trying to justify yourself just like the religious/pious Pharisees. Read Matthew 23 for what Jesus thinks of such things and get back to me. NT believers have been set free from the law. The law of Christ is our doctrine not the OT law Paul condemned with those who were set free then tried to get people to go back to the law and Paul condemned them for following another gospel and another jesus- a false gospel and a false christ that Paul said ANATHEMA. You are defiantly promoting a yoke which Jesus and the Apostles condemned.

See Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

And you are projecting your self righteousness on both Tibiasdad and myself. Its you who are the self righteous doer of the law.

hope this helps !!!

See Galatians 1:6-10.

 

[TibiasDad]

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

This is true, just as nothing is unholy of itself. What makes something Unholy or Unclean is God's Judgment regarding them. Blood doesn't make itself unclean for food. Maggots or pigs doesn't make themselves unclean for food. Sheep doesn't make themselves clean for food.

Paul says that what is clean or unclean is determined by the individual for himself! God calls all things clean! If eating pork is unclean for you, then it’s unclean; I would not offend you by eating a ham sandwich in your presence. Nor would I belittle you for not eating pork. But Paul definitely calls the one who doesn’t eat the weaker brother.

You should not eat that which you find unclean, but neither should you condemn me for what I find clean! Both of us should avoid holding our views over the head of the other.

Would Paul then serve blood and animals strangled to the weak in Faith? Of course not!!

True enough; you should have just stopped with this!

Why? Because of GOD's Judgment concerning them. This is simply undeniable truth

No, because it might offend the faith of the weaker brother; that is the action that God’s judgment condemns, not the meat itself.

If a man believes eating bread with unwashed hands defiles the bread, would you then serve bread to the weak in faith, with unwashed hands?

That’s not what Paul was responding to or saying. Quit moving the goalposts!
What part of “All food is clean”is difficult to understand? “All” means everything without exception. “Food” means everything consumed for nourishment and/or sustenance. “Is”, the present tense state of being verb gives the reality of the now, not what was reality in the past! “Clean”, in this context, means not forbidden, holy, worthy of use. Thus, all food that can be eaten for sustenance and nourishment, is now, presently holy and worthy of use, without regard to past injunctions against it.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

What "Foods" did God create to be received with thanksgiving? Blood? Strangled goats? Maggots? Dogs?

The foods that some, like you, are saying we must abstain from eating.

Also note that the ones who “follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons”, are the ones saying we should abstain from eating certain foods!

Where did the Word of God consecrate the drinking of blood? Or the consumption of maggots, dog's, pigs or slugs or animals strangled?

What part of “4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving” is hard to understand?

“Everything “ and “nothing” are all inclusive! And the use of both of them in the same thought is emphatic of the absolute nature of their meaning!

True, but if God says blood is not food, don't eat it and we tell God to go pound sand, we will eat whatever our flesh desires because we do not recognize God's authority, even you must consider that men who do this are worse off than men who trust God and recognize His Authority.

But pork is food, and “we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.” In other words, the eating food is irrelevant to the question of godliness. Your objections are meaningless!


Doug

 

[civic]

The foods that some, like you, are saying we must abstain from eating.

Also not that the ones who “follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons”, are the ones saying we should abstain from eating certain foods!


What part of “4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving” is hard to understand?

“Everything “ and “nothing” are all inclusive! And the use of both of them is the same thought is emphatic of the absolute nature of their meaning!

But pork is food, and “we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.” In other words, the eating food is irrelevant to the question of godliness. Your objections are meaningless!


Doug

Ditto

 

[Studyman]

The Law was for the nation of Israel, the Jews not the Gentiles.

This is a manmade religious philosophy just like "Tulip". It's a false doctrine created by religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to justify their rejection of God and His Laws. But just like "Tulip", when a man reads what is actually written, this popular doctrine is exposed as an insidious lie.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

God gave His Laws "TO" Israel, but God's Laws are "FOR" all humans as it is written, "For God is no respecter of persons".

Ex. 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a "kingdom of priests", and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And what is the purpose of a Priest if not to Promote the Word of God to others who might want to know Him. And what does God say about the Gentile that wants to know Him?

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you "as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

This lie you promote is the result of your judgment against God. In your adopted religion, God is a respecter of persons and treats men according to the DNA they were born with. You also preach that in the Law and Prophets, when a man came to God or cried out to God, HE told them to trust Him and obey Him. And for those men who left their lives to follow Him, as soon as they left and placed their trust in Him, you preach that HE laid on their necks a Yoke of Bondage, Rudiments of this world, impossible for a man to keep. Then you imply in your religion that HE lied to these men who trusted Him by telling them they could keep His Laws, which HE told them were for their own good, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't keep them. And so Jesus had to come and save mankind from God.

This is only one of the many insidious lies being promoted about God by this world's religions. Paul explains why men preach such wickedness.

Rom.1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Like the Pharisees, you have exalted yourself as not only a judge of God and His Laws, but also others. You berate other men for promoting "Tulip", which anyone who studies knows is a false doctrine. But you refuse to accept the truth about your own false doctrines you work so hard to convince others of.

You preach this false doctrine that "God's Law, was for the nation of Israel, the Jews not the Gentiles", just as the Calvinists preach the false doctrine of "Tulip".

Because Calvinists view Scriptures through the prism of the Lie, "Tulip", everything they read is corrupted. Their entire religious philosophy is founded on the Lie of "Tulip". And a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It is the same for those who have adopted your religion. Your entire philosophy is founded on the lie that God's Law was a Yoke of Bondage that isn't for mankind, rather, only for men born with a certain DNA.

Every Scripture you reference is then infected with this lie/leaven. Every verse you post is twisted to promote this falsehood. No different than how the Calvinist preserve and defend their false doctrine with the same scriptures.

You are trying to justify yourself just like the religious/pious Pharisees. Read Matthew 23 for what Jesus thinks of such things and get back to me. NT believers have been set free from the law. The law of Christ is our doctrine not the OT law Paul condemned with those who were set free then tried to get people to go back to the law and Paul condemned them for following another gospel and another jesus- a false gospel and a false christ that Paul said ANATHEMA. You are defiantly promoting a yoke which Jesus and the Apostles condemned.

Your religious foundation is "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who trusted in Him". Your every post, every sentence you type is to preserve, justify and defend this religious philosophy. Paul said we were set free from Sin, from the death the letter of the Law brought to us. "The wage of "sin" is death" not "God's Law is death" as you and the Calvinists imply in your religions.

If I read Matt., 23 with a mind infected with the insidious lie, "God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that are against Jews and Gentiles", then my understanding of the chapter is corrupted. Paul never advocated disobedience to God although the religious sects of the world he was born into, like you and the Pharisees and the Calvinists, accuse him of doing so. He clears this whole matter up for those interested in the truth.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I know it is a common religious tradition of this world's men "who profess to know God", to berate, ridicule and otherwise discourage anyone who would point God's actual Words out to them to expose an error. So your response is only a perfectly natural fleshy response, the same as how the Calvinists react towards you when you point out God's Word that exposes their darkness.

I don't care how you feel about me, Jesus already told me how you would respond, so I expect nothing different. But I do care about you, and therefore am hoping you might consider, in the privacy of your own home, when there aren't other men around to impress, what is being shown to you here.

See Galatians 1:6-10
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

Because of the foolishness of your mind, and the prism of falsehoods you view Scriptures through, you somehow believe that there were jews trying to convince members of the Church of God to obey God. And in your religion, Jesus and Paul were against such behavior.

The Scriptures do not teach this gospel you are promoting.

7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

You read this verse through the prism of lies about God. That somehow God's curse is reserved for men who yield themselves servants to obey Him. Paul doesn't teach such wickedness, just as he doesn't teach "Tulip". If you want to know what Paul teaches, he tells us all.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was "not disobedient" unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (BOTH) should repent and turn "to God", and do works meet for repentance.

Which is what I also believe and advocate. And the mainstream religions of the world of his time didn't much like Paul for teaching this Truth, just as you berate me for posting his words.

21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about "to kill me". Which is what happens to men who adopt this world's religious philosophies and traditions over the Words of God Jesus brought to us.

And you are projecting your self righteousness on both Tibiasdad and myself. Its you who are the self righteous doer of the law.

hope this helps !!!

You judge God and "His righteousness" as beneath you, just as Cain did. Of course you would be resentful of anyone who trusted God, just as Cain was.

Paul said "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

If I am a "doer" of God's Law, and not a "hearer only" like Calvinist's, Methodist's, Baptist's or any of a number of this world's religious sects and businesses, how am I a "self-righteous doer of the Law"?

Paul said I am a servant to whomever I "yield myself" a serve to obey.

1 John. 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It isn't "MY" righteousness I seek Civic, it's God's Righteousness that Jesus said to "SEEK First".

 

[civic]

This is a manmade religious philosophy just like "Tulip". It's a false doctrine created by religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to justify their rejection of God and His Laws. But just like "Tulip", when a man reads what is actually written, this popular doctrine is exposed as an insidious lie.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

God gave His Laws "TO" Israel, but God's Laws are "FOR" all humans as it is written, "For God is no respecter of persons".

Ex. 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a "kingdom of priests", and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And what is the purpose of a Priest if not to Promote the Word of God to others who might want to know Him. And what does God say about the Gentile that wants to know Him?

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you "as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

This lie you promote is the result of your judgment against God. In your adopted religion, God is a respecter of persons and treats men according to the DNA they were born with. You also preach that in the Law and Prophets, when a man came to God or cried out to God, HE told them to trust Him and obey Him. And for those men who left their lives to follow Him, as soon as they left and placed their trust in Him, you preach that HE laid on their necks a Yoke of Bondage, Rudiments of this world, impossible for a man to keep. Then you imply in your religion that HE lied to these men who trusted Him by telling them they could keep His Laws, which HE told them were for their own good, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't keep them. And so Jesus had to come and save mankind from God.

This is only one of the many insidious lies being promoted about God by this world's religions. Paul explains why men preach such wickedness.

Rom.1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Like the Pharisees, you have exalted yourself as not only a judge of God and His Laws, but also others. You berate other men for promoting "Tulip", which anyone who studies knows is a false doctrine. But you refuse to accept the truth about your own false doctrines you work so hard to convince others of.

You preach this false doctrine that "God's Law, was for the nation of Israel, the Jews not the Gentiles", just as the Calvinists preach the false doctrine of "Tulip".

Because Calvinists view Scriptures through the prism of the Lie, "Tulip", everything they read is corrupted. Their entire religious philosophy is founded on the Lie of "Tulip". And a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It is the same for those who have adopted your religion. Your entire philosophy is founded on the lie that God's Law was a Yoke of Bondage that isn't for mankind, rather, only for men born with a certain DNA.

Every Scripture you reference is then infected with this lie/leaven. Every verse you post is twisted to promote this falsehood. No different than how the Calvinist preserve and defend their false doctrine with the same scriptures.




Your religious foundation is "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who trusted in Him". Your every post, every sentence you type is to preserve, justify and defend this religious philosophy. Paul said we were set free from Sin, from the death the letter of the Law brought to us. "The wage of "sin" is death" not "God's Law is death" as you and the Calvinists imply in your religions.

If I read Matt., 23 with a mind infected with the insidious lie, "God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that are against Jews and Gentiles", then my understanding of the chapter is corrupted. Paul never advocated disobedience to God although the religious sects of the world he was born into, like you and the Pharisees and the Calvinists, accuse him of doing so. He clears this whole matter up for those interested in the truth.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I know it is a common religious tradition of this world's men "who profess to know God", to berate, ridicule and otherwise discourage anyone who would point God's actual Words out to them to expose an error. So your response is only a perfectly natural fleshy response, the same as how the Calvinists react towards you when you point out God's Word that exposes their darkness.

I don't care how you feel about me, Jesus already told me how you would respond, so I expect nothing different. But I do care about you, and therefore am hoping you might consider, in the privacy of your own home, when there aren't other men around to impress, what is being shown to you here.



Because of the foolishness of your mind, and the prism of falsehoods you view Scriptures through, you somehow believe that there were jews trying to convince members of the Church of God to obey God. And in your religion, Jesus and Paul were against such behavior.

The Scriptures do not teach this gospel you are promoting.



You read this verse through the prism of lies about God. That somehow God's curse is reserved for men who yield themselves servants to obey Him. Paul doesn't teach such wickedness, just as he doesn't teach "Tulip". If you want to know what Paul teaches, he tells us all.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was "not disobedient" unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (BOTH) should repent and turn "to God", and do works meet for repentance.

Which is what I also believe and advocate. And the mainstream religions of the world of his time didn't much like Paul for teaching this Truth, just as you berate me for posting his words.

21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about "to kill me". Which is what happens to men who adopt this world's religious philosophies and traditions over the Words of God Jesus brought to us.



You judge God and "His righteousness" as beneath you, just as Cain did. Of course you would be resentful of anyone who trusted God, just as Cain was.

Paul said "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

If I am a "doer" of God's Law, and not a "hearer only" like Calvinist's, Methodist's, Baptist's or any of a number of this world's religious sects and businesses, how am I a "self-righteous doer of the Law"?

Paul said I am a servant to whomever I "yield myself" a serve to obey.

1 John. 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It isn't "MY" righteousness I seek Civic, it's God's Righteousness that Jesus said to "SEEK First".

Paul dismantles your Pharisaical obedience to the law trying to be justified by your own works to the law.

Romans 3
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Galatians 2
6 knowing that a man is not [a]justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died [b]in vain.”

Acts 13:39
Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

And like Paul I can confess with him that I am dead to the law

Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God

But the law is your master and you are its slave. I on the other hand have been set free from the law by Christ- whom the Son sets free is free indeed. You remain a slave to the law,

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

This is a manmade religious philosophy just like "Tulip". It's a false doctrine created by religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to justify their rejection of God and His Laws. But just like "Tulip", when a man reads what is actually written, this popular doctrine is exposed as an insidious lie.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

God gave His Laws "TO" Israel, but God's Laws are "FOR" all humans as it is written, "For God is no respecter of persons".

Ex. 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a "kingdom of priests", and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And what is the purpose of a Priest if not to Promote the Word of God to others who might want to know Him. And what does God say about the Gentile that wants to know Him?

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you "as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

This lie you promote is the result of your judgment against God. In your adopted religion, God is a respecter of persons and treats men according to the DNA they were born with. You also preach that in the Law and Prophets, when a man came to God or cried out to God, HE told them to trust Him and obey Him. And for those men who left their lives to follow Him, as soon as they left and placed their trust in Him, you preach that HE laid on their necks a Yoke of Bondage, Rudiments of this world, impossible for a man to keep. Then you imply in your religion that HE lied to these men who trusted Him by telling them they could keep His Laws, which HE told them were for their own good, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they didn't keep them. And so Jesus had to come and save mankind from God.

This is only one of the many insidious lies being promoted about God by this world's religions. Paul explains why men preach such wickedness.

Rom.1: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Like the Pharisees, you have exalted yourself as not only a judge of God and His Laws, but also others. You berate other men for promoting "Tulip", which anyone who studies knows is a false doctrine. But you refuse to accept the truth about your own false doctrines you work so hard to convince others of.

You preach this false doctrine that "God's Law, was for the nation of Israel, the Jews not the Gentiles", just as the Calvinists preach the false doctrine of "Tulip".

Because Calvinists view Scriptures through the prism of the Lie, "Tulip", everything they read is corrupted. Their entire religious philosophy is founded on the Lie of "Tulip". And a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It is the same for those who have adopted your religion. Your entire philosophy is founded on the lie that God's Law was a Yoke of Bondage that isn't for mankind, rather, only for men born with a certain DNA.

Every Scripture you reference is then infected with this lie/leaven. Every verse you post is twisted to promote this falsehood. No different than how the Calvinist preserve and defend their false doctrine with the same scriptures.




Your religious foundation is "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who trusted in Him". Your every post, every sentence you type is to preserve, justify and defend this religious philosophy. Paul said we were set free from Sin, from the death the letter of the Law brought to us. "The wage of "sin" is death" not "God's Law is death" as you and the Calvinists imply in your religions.

If I read Matt., 23 with a mind infected with the insidious lie, "God's Laws are a Yoke of Bondage that are against Jews and Gentiles", then my understanding of the chapter is corrupted. Paul never advocated disobedience to God although the religious sects of the world he was born into, like you and the Pharisees and the Calvinists, accuse him of doing so. He clears this whole matter up for those interested in the truth.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

I know it is a common religious tradition of this world's men "who profess to know God", to berate, ridicule and otherwise discourage anyone who would point God's actual Words out to them to expose an error. So your response is only a perfectly natural fleshy response, the same as how the Calvinists react towards you when you point out God's Word that exposes their darkness.

I don't care how you feel about me, Jesus already told me how you would respond, so I expect nothing different. But I do care about you, and therefore am hoping you might consider, in the privacy of your own home, when there aren't other men around to impress, what is being shown to you here.



Because of the foolishness of your mind, and the prism of falsehoods you view Scriptures through, you somehow believe that there were jews trying to convince members of the Church of God to obey God. And in your religion, Jesus and Paul were against such behavior.

The Scriptures do not teach this gospel you are promoting.



You read this verse through the prism of lies about God. That somehow God's curse is reserved for men who yield themselves servants to obey Him. Paul doesn't teach such wickedness, just as he doesn't teach "Tulip". If you want to know what Paul teaches, he tells us all.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was "not disobedient" unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they (BOTH) should repent and turn "to God", and do works meet for repentance.

Which is what I also believe and advocate. And the mainstream religions of the world of his time didn't much like Paul for teaching this Truth, just as you berate me for posting his words.

21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about "to kill me". Which is what happens to men who adopt this world's religious philosophies and traditions over the Words of God Jesus brought to us.



You judge God and "His righteousness" as beneath you, just as Cain did. Of course you would be resentful of anyone who trusted God, just as Cain was.

Paul said "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

If I am a "doer" of God's Law, and not a "hearer only" like Calvinist's, Methodist's, Baptist's or any of a number of this world's religious sects and businesses, how am I a "self-righteous doer of the Law"?

Paul said I am a servant to whomever I "yield myself" a serve to obey.

1 John. 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It isn't "MY" righteousness I seek Civic, it's God's Righteousness that Jesus said to "SEEK First".

The 10 reasons for the Law- the choice is yours what will it be ?

(1) Reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).

(2) Set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all the other nations (Exodus 19:5).

(3) Reveal the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19). Although the Law was good and holy (Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel. “No one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20; cf. Acts 13:38–39).

(4) Provide forgiveness through the sacrifice/offerings (Leviticus 1—7) for the people who had faith in the Lord in the nation of Israel.

(5) Provide a way of worship for the community of faith through the yearly feasts (Leviticus 23).

(6) Provide God’s direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation (Exodus 21—23; Deuteronomy 6:4–19; Psalm 119:97–104).

(7) Reveal to humanity that no one can keep the Law but everyone falls short of God’s standard of holiness. That realization causes us to rely on God’s mercy and grace. When Christ came, He fulfilled the Law and with His death paid the penalty for our breaking it (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). By faith in Him, the believer has the very righteousness of Christ imputed to him.

The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours. got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Paul dismantles your Pharisaical obedience to the law trying to be justified by your own works to the law.

The Pharisees didn't obey God's Law Civic. "Many" like yourself who call Jesus Lord, Lord, preach the lie that they did, just as they preach the lie that Gods Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE places on the necks of those who trust Him. I can see why you would want to deflect away from your own preaching, given what the scriptures actually say.

Consider HIS Words defining what you call "Pharisaical obedience to the law".

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

These religious men "who professed to know God" rejected God's Laws, Judgments and Statutes, and created their own judgments, and went about to establish their own righteousness, just as the religion you have adopted and are now promoting does.

Yet once a week here they come to their manmade shrines of worship, and they offer the blood of a perfectly innocent unblemished life, as per the law, as justification of their willful rejection of God and "HIS" Righteousness.

Is. 1: 10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

This world's religions, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" are the same Civic. They reject God's Judgments, Statutes and commandments Jesus walked in and they create their own righteousness, their own religion with their own judgments, even their own high days.

Yet once a week here they come to their manmade shrines of worship, and they offer the blood of a perfectly innocent unblemished life, as per the law, as justification for their willful rejection of God and "HIS" Righteousness.

Like Isaiah and Paul teaches, by these sacrificial "Works of the Law" shall no flesh be justified. God doesn't desire that you use Christ's Blood to justify your willful rejection of God's Judgments. What does HE say HE wants?

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, "make you clean"; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If ye be willing and obedient", ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But "if ye refuse and rebel", ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

As Paul before proved in Romans 3, men who live this way are all still under sin, both Jew and Gentile. Their throats are an open sepulcher.

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Your religion rejects this teaching of Paul Civic. You preach that God is a respecter of persons, that God's Law is not for everyone for the knowledge of sin, only men of a certain DNA, and that God lied to His people and placed unbearable Laws you call a "Yoke of Bondage" and "Rudiments of this world" on the necks of Abraham's children that placed their trust in Him.

It is you who relies on the sacrificial "Works of the Law" when you offer to God HIS Own Son's innocent blood to justify your willful rebellion against God, the exact same way Israel offered the blood of innocent life to justify their willful rebellion against God. And no doubt, those Christians in Matt. 7 also offered to God the Blood of the Lamb of God to justify their "Iniquity".

As Peter warns, you wrest the Holy scriptures, and Paul's Words to justify your willful rebellion.

As I said before, EVERY Word you read is seen through the prism of the falsehood "God's Law isn't for the Gentile", "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage God placed on the necks of those who trusted Him". Just as the Calvinists view of Scriptures is corrupted because they view them through the Prism of "TULIP". You can see the beam in their eye, but not the tree in your own.

Therefore, to justify your own rebellion, you carefully select only those parts of Paul's teaching that you can twist to justify yourself. In the exact same way that the Calvinists carefully select only the Scriptures they can twist to justify their false gospel. In the same way the Pharisees "omitted the weightier matters of the law" to justify their manmade religious philosophies. Somehow all of you believing that the Scriptures you twist somehow makes void all the Words of God, and Jesus and Paul and the Prophets, and the Apostles that you ignore and refuse to acknowledge, which when considered, bring question to your religious philosophy.

Romans 3
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith "of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Galatians 2
6 knowing that a man is not [a]justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died [b]in vain.”

Acts 13:39
Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

And like Paul I can confess with him that I am dead to the law

Galatians 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God

But the law is your master and you are its slave. I on the other hand have been set free from the law by Christ- whom the Son sets free is free indeed. You remain a slave to the law,

Again, you twist Paul's words to justify rejection and rebellion against God. If you knew the Christ "of the bible" you wouldn't do this. You would live by "Every Word" inspired by God as the Jesus "of the bible" instructs. Then you would consider all of Paul's words.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of "the righteous judgment of God;" (That you preach is a Yoke of Bondage unworthy of your honor.) 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds": 7 To them who "by patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For "not the hearers" of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

Rom. 3: 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the "keeping of the commandments of God".

Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind "I myself serve the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That means NO! civic)

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were "the servants of sin", but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became "the servants of righteousness".

So yes Civic, I do not "Yield myself" a servant to obey the methodist religion or Baptist religion or Catholic religion, nor do I "Yield myself" a servant to obey the Calvinists or the JW's religion or any of the popular religious sects and businesses which traditions you cherish, and many of their philosophies you promote.

The Jesus "of the Bible" is my master, and I "Yield myself" a servant to obey God like HE instructs. "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". I am bought with a price, not by Wesley or Calvin or the Pope, like you and Doug, but By God who purchased me with the Blood of His Son. I am no longer my own, but like Paul and the Church of God, I am become a servant of God's Righteousness, not your righteousness, or Kenneth Copeland's righteousness. I am become a slave to God's Righteousness, and it has set me free from the hypocrisy and deception of this world's religious men who "Come in Christ's Name" and "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

You too, could choose this same Christ "of the Bible", and also become a "Servant of God's Righteousness". As we are all a servant to something.

Luke 14: 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

You see how the Calvinists cling to their religion in spite of what the Scriptures actually teach. It is more precious than the Word of God to them. Your religion is the same for you Civic, just as it was for me when I was snared like you to further their gospel. If a man isn't willing to forsake their own religious traditions which transgress God's Judgments and Commandments, they become a servant to the sins they promote.

Come out of them Civic, take a leap of Faith and Turn to the God "of the Bible" as Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile. He isn't the ogre you have been convinced of and are promoting to others. He will give you to the Christ if you are will and obedient.

Hope this heps.

 

[civic]

The Pharisees didn't obey God's Law Civic. "Many" like yourself who call Jesus Lord, Lord, preach the lie that they did, just as they preach the lie that Gods Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE places on the necks of those who trust Him. I can see why you would want to deflect away from your own preaching, given what the scriptures actually say.

Consider HIS Words defining what you call "Pharisaical obedience to the law".

Is. 1: 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. 3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

These religious men "who professed to know God" rejected God's Laws, Judgments and Statutes, and created their own judgments, and went about to establish their own righteousness, just as the religion you have adopted and are now promoting does.

Yet once a week here they come to their manmade shrines of worship, and they offer the blood of a perfectly innocent unblemished life, as per the law, as justification of their willful rejection of God and "HIS" Righteousness.

Is. 1: 10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

This world's religions, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord" are the same Civic. They reject God's Judgments, Statutes and commandments Jesus walked in and they create their own righteousness, their own religion with their own judgments, even their own high days.

Yet once a week here they come to their manmade shrines of worship, and they offer the blood of a perfectly innocent unblemished life, as per the law, as justification for their willful rejection of God and "HIS" Righteousness.

Like Isaiah and Paul teaches, by these sacrificial "Works of the Law" shall no flesh be justified. God doesn't desire that you use Christ's Blood to justify your willful rejection of God's Judgments. What does HE say HE wants?

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, "make you clean"; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If ye be willing and obedient", ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But "if ye refuse and rebel", ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

As Paul before proved in Romans 3, men who live this way are all still under sin, both Jew and Gentile. Their throats are an open sepulcher.

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Your religion rejects this teaching of Paul Civic. You preach that God is a respecter of persons, that God's Law is not for everyone for the knowledge of sin, only men of a certain DNA, and that God lied to His people and placed unbearable Laws you call a "Yoke of Bondage" and "Rudiments of this world" on the necks of Abraham's children that placed their trust in Him.

It is you who relies on the sacrificial "Works of the Law" when you offer to God HIS Own Son's innocent blood to justify your willful rebellion against God, the exact same way Israel offered the blood of innocent life to justify their willful rebellion against God. And no doubt, those Christians in Matt. 7 also offered to God the Blood of the Lamb of God to justify their "Iniquity".

As Peter warns, you wrest the Holy scriptures, and Paul's Words to justify your willful rebellion.

As I said before, EVERY Word you read is seen through the prism of the falsehood "God's Law isn't for the Gentile", "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage God placed on the necks of those who trusted Him". Just as the Calvinists view of Scriptures is corrupted because they view them through the Prism of "TULIP". You can see the beam in their eye, but not the tree in your own.

Therefore, to justify your own rebellion, you carefully select only those parts of Paul's teaching that you can twist to justify yourself. In the exact same way that the Calvinists carefully select only the Scriptures they can twist to justify their false gospel. In the same way the Pharisees "omitted the weightier matters of the law" to justify their manmade religious philosophies. Somehow all of you believing that the Scriptures you twist somehow makes void all the Words of God, and Jesus and Paul and the Prophets, and the Apostles that you ignore and refuse to acknowledge, which when considered, bring question to your religious philosophy.




Again, you twist Paul's words to justify rejection and rebellion against God. If you knew the Christ "of the bible" you wouldn't do this. You would live by "Every Word" inspired by God as the Jesus "of the bible" instructs. Then you would consider all of Paul's words.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of "the righteous judgment of God;" (That you preach is a Yoke of Bondage unworthy of your honor.) 6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds": 7 To them who "by patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For "not the hearers" of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

Rom. 3: 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the "keeping of the commandments of God".

Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind "I myself serve the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. (That means NO! civic)

16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were "the servants of sin", but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became "the servants of righteousness".

So yes Civic, I do not "Yield myself" a servant to obey the methodist religion or Baptist religion or Catholic religion, nor do I "Yield myself" a servant to obey the Calvinists or the JW's religion or any of the popular religious sects and businesses which traditions you cherish, and many of their philosophies you promote.

The Jesus "of the Bible" is my master, and I "Yield myself" a servant to obey God like HE instructs. "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect". I am bought with a price, not by Wesley or Calvin or the Pope, like you and Doug, but By God who purchased me with the Blood of His Son. I am no longer my own, but like Paul and the Church of God, I am become a servant of God's Righteousness, not your righteousness, or Kenneth Copeland's righteousness. I am become a slave to God's Righteousness, and it has set me free from the hypocrisy and deception of this world's religious men who "Come in Christ's Name" and "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

You too, could choose this same Christ "of the Bible", and also become a "Servant of God's Righteousness". As we are all a servant to something.

Luke 14: 33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

You see how the Calvinists cling to their religion in spite of what the Scriptures actually teach. It is more precious than the Word of God to them. Your religion is the same for you Civic, just as it was for me when I was snared like you to further their gospel. If a man isn't willing to forsake their own religious traditions which transgress God's Judgments and Commandments, they become a servant to the sins they promote.

Come out of them Civic, take a leap of Faith and Turn to the God "of the Bible" as Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile. He isn't the ogre you have been convinced of and are promoting to others. He will give you to the Christ if you are will and obedient.

Hope this heps.

My traditions are the same as the gentiles in the NT- no law. Paul as an Apostle to the gentiles did not follow the law either, as Saul he did. Christ fulfills the law as I have demonstrated with dozens of scriptures. The law is not my schoolmaster , Christ is my Master and I follow Him, not the law. He abolished the law and made it obsolete as per the entire book of Hebrews and Galatians points out.

Galatians 3:1-14
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us — for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE" — 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:21-27
For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:15-17
15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Hebrews 8:13- By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;



Next strawman

 

[TibiasDad]

Your religious foundation is "God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage HE placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who trusted in Him". Your every post, every sentence you type is to preserve, justify and defend this religious philosophy. Paul said we were set free from Sin, from the death the letter of the Law brought to us. "The wage of "sin" is death" not "God's Law is death" as you and the Calvinists imply in your religions.

Have you forgotten (or is it merely ignored?) what Paul says in Rom 7?

Allow me to remind you:

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” b 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

The purpose of the law was not to be a means of salvation, but a means to demonstrate our need of salvation. As Paul also says, “So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.” (Gal 3:24)

Paul also says in the opening of Rom 7 that we have died to the law for “by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”

The purpose of the written code was to show the sinfulness of the sin within us and the bondage we are in to it! Once that is accomplished, its purpose is fulfilled and is no longer needed or useful.

Hebrews 7:18-19 puts the final nail in the coffin by saying “The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.”

And again in Galatians 3 he declares “1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Doug

 

[civic]

Have you forgotten (or is it merely ignored?) what Paul says in Rom 7?

Allow me to remind you:

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” b 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

The purpose of the law was not to be a means of salvation, but a means to demonstrate our need of salvation. As Paul also says, “So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.” (Gal 3:24)

Paul also says in the opening of Rom 7 that we have died to the law for “by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.”

The purpose of the written code was to show the sinfulness of the sin within us and the bondage we are in to it! Once that is accomplished, its purpose is fulfilled and is no longer needed or useful.

Hebrews 7:18-19 puts the final nail in the coffin by saying “The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.”

And again in Galatians 3 he declares “1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Doug

Amen

 

[Quintus5]

In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40).

These are both found in the Old Testament

 

[Quintus5]

Also, and i know I'm late to this party, but the difference between clean an unclean animals was known by Noah, way before the children of Israel knew it.

Genesis 7:2-3

7:2	Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
7:3	Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

 

[TibiasDad]

These are both found in the Old Testament

But it is not part of the ceremonial law, which the dietary restrictions are part of. These are the restrictions that were set aside (along with the sacrificial laws) in the NT (Acts 10).

Salvation by faith is in the OT too, but that’s not what the Jewish tradition was about. It was about keeping every jot and tittle of the law.

Doug

 

[Quintus5]

But it is not part of the ceremonial law, which the dietary restrictions are part of. These are the restrictions that were set aside (along with the sacrificial laws) in the NT (Acts 10).

Salvation by faith is in the OT too, but that’s not what the Jewish tradition was about. It was about keeping every jot and tittle of the law.

Doug

They were not allowed to eat that stuff. Note what Peter said in Acts 10 (and no it wasn't that he could eat pork now. He knew the vision meant to call no man unclean. Shortly after, he was sent to the home of Cornelius, a Gentile.

 

[Quintus5]

Amen

It just goes to show ya