Humility And Calvinism?

[TibiasDad]

HE said that the mainstream religions of His Time taught for doctrines the commandments and traditions of men. ("touch not, handle not, taste not, etc.) And that they "Full well Reject the Commandments of God that they might keep their own traditions".

He was talking specifically about the Jewish rules of “touch not, handle not and taste not” along with other prohibitions. These rules are the same ones you are saying we need to still observe.

In Christ there is no Jew, Gentile, man or woman; we are made one in him, and all food is clean!

Doug

 

[Studyman]

You didn't deny that you're against Sunday Services. Are you an Adventist?

No, I'm not a Catholic or an Adventist and I don't care what men do on Sunday. God didn't Esteem the first day of the week as a "Feast of the Lord". He did Esteem some days above others though. If you are interested in the Christ's Commandments, you could "Seek first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness" and then you would find the "Feasts of the Lord" that Jesus and the Faithful walked in. I could show you where this Righteousness of God is revealed if you want.

The Holy Scriptures mention the Annunciation and its celebration was part of the Early Christian Church. The earliest written evidence for the Feast of the Annunciation was in the 5th century. Earlier than that the Christian Church was under severe persecution and its services were usually passed down through oral means.

I see, so then the reason why I couldn't find the "Feast of the Annunciation", is because it is not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Scriptures that Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" and wasn't even known until 500 years after God's church observed Feast of Weeks after the death and resurrection of Christ. That explains why Jesus and His followers never mentioned it or observed it.

 

[synergy]

I see, so then the reason why I couldn't find the "Feast of the Annunciation", is because it is not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Scriptures that Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" and wasn't even known until 500 years after God's church observed Feast of Weeks after the death and resurrection of Christ. That explains why Jesus and His followers never mentioned it or observed it.

False. I said there were no written accounts before the 5th century, not that it "wasn't even known until 500 after ...". It was known. There were iconic depictions of the Annunciation in the Caracombs of Priscilla, dating back to 3rd century. Icons were part of the service. What's to say that there were no Annunciation services even before that?

What's your problem with the Church commemorating the Annunciation anyways? What grievances do you have against Annunciation commemorations? Do you have a problem with Christmas also?

 

[Studyman]

He was talking specifically about the Jewish rules of “touch not, handle not and taste not” along with other prohibitions.

Yes, this is true. The Jews transgressed God's commandments, and taught instead for doctrines, the Commandments of men. As the Jesus of the bible clearly teaches.

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit "in vain" do they worship me, teaching for doctrines "the commandments of men".

8 For "laying aside" the commandment of God, ye hold the "tradition of men", as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well "ye reject the commandment of God", that ye may keep your own tradition.

So Yes, Paul is speaking about the Traditions of the Jewish religion, who rejected God's commandments in favor of their own religious traditions. ((Touch not; taste not; handle not;) At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible" and the Law and Prophets, and Paul himself.

I do not advocate that men transgress God's judgments and commandments, so that they can live by the traditions of random religions of this world they were born into.

These rules are the same ones you are saying we need to still observe.

Lying about me and my posts come so easy to you. It sends chills up my spine with the ease in which you can slander another, who has done you no wrong.

You cannot find ONE Post, ONE Word where I said, promoted, suggested or even implied that men need to observe the doctrines and traditions of men, Jew or otherwise. Not one. And yet you use a public forum to slander me just like the mainstream preachers of Paul's time (Whose damnation is just) slandered him. But Jesus said it would be this way for me, so I have come to expect nothing different, as HE also says; "You shall know them by their fruits".

Here is the Scriptures you use to justify your slander of me. It seems prudent to post them and discuss them for the edification of others which may be reading along.

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from "the rudiments of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using, after "the commandments and doctrines of men?"

And before this Paul also warned about the traditions of men.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments "of the world", and not after Christ. A Christ who is not of this world.

Are these not the same Jews Jesus and the Prophets spoke of who were "Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men?"

Of course, you will not answer. You must justify your slander.

In Christ there is no Jew, Gentile, man or woman; we are made one in him, and all food is clean!

Doug

God's Commandments are not worthless Jewish Traditions as the prince of this world and its little helpers preach to others. And everything God created on earth is not food. These things are undeniably true, according to the Jesus "of the Bible" and the Holy Scriptures. I can post His Words, but I can't make men believe them. Nevertheless, HE is my strength, and HIS Words are Spirit and they are Life, therefore, I believe them and depend on them "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

It is my practice to post them for discussion, even though "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord refuse to engage in honest discussion about them.

Mark 7: 1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, "they found fault".

WHY???? Why did they find fault?

3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding "the tradition of the elders".

4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. ((Touch not; taste not; handle not;)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the "tradition of the elders", but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men". (Not God as you and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, falsely imply.)

8 For "laying aside" the commandment of God, ye hold "the tradition of men", as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. ( (Touch not; taste not; handle not;) 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye "reject the commandment of God", that ye may "keep your own tradition". ((Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines "of men"?)

And Paul is dealing with these same religious men in Colossians "who profess to know God", promoting the same commandments, doctrines and traditions of men that Jesus exposed just a few years earlier.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from "the rudiments of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using, after "the commandments and doctrines of men"? Not God as you and "many" who come in Christ's Name falsely teach.

Look Doug, according to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, the Lord's Christ, and EVERY WORD which is Inspired by the God of the Bible, God's Commandments are not "Rudiments of this world" nor are they Jewish Traditions, or manmade traditions or Beggarly Elements or a Yoke of Bondage.

You cannot find one place in Scriptures where God's commandments are called "Rudiments of this world" or traditions of men. NOT ONE Place. And yet you preach to the world that they are. Just as you cannot find one word from me, ONE Post, in which I said, suggested or even implied that men should keep the manmade traditions and commandments of men, that the Jews taught for doctrines.

And yet you take time out of your day to come on a public forum and slander me by saying I do, and you do the exact same thing to God, making up lies about His Commandments being nothing more than worthless Jewish traditions.

This is why I left this world's religions you have adopted and are now promoting to others. If you are the example of this world's "Christian", I want nothing to do with it. As it is written "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you".

My earnest desire is that you resist the fleshy urge to justifying your slander and instead step back and consider where you were taught that God's Commandments and Judgments are nothing more than traditions of men and Rudiments of this world.

And while you are at it, perhaps you can also examine why you would say to others on a public forum that I want men to observe doctrines and traditions of men, when there is not one thread of evidence in your possession that I do.

 

[Studyman]

False. I said there were no written accounts before the 5th century, not that it "wasn't even known until 500 after ...". It was known. There were iconic depictions of the Annunciation in the Caracombs of Priscilla, dating back to 3rd century. Icons were part of the service. What's to say that there were no Annunciation services even before that?

Fair enough. This "Feast" of which you speak was not written in God's Holy Inspired Word where the other "Feasts of the Lord" were given by God to His People.

But there were "Feasts of the Lord" that were written, Yes? And this world's religions reject these Feasts of the Lord that were written and commanded, in favor of a Feast that was never even mentioned, and not written about anywhere until at least 3 centuries after the Church of God gathered for Feast of Weeks.

The Spirit of Christ in Jeremiah speaks to this very thing I believe, it's like HE saw this conversation coming.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, "where is the good way", and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.

But they said, We will not walk therein.

As it is to this day.

What's your problem with the Church commemorating the Annunciation anyways? What grievances do you have against Annunciation commemorations? Do you have a problem with Christmas also?

You should ask the Jesus "of the Bible" this question. It was HE who denounced rejecting the commandments of God that you might keep your own religious traditions.

The Pharisees rejected God's Way and created their own. They despised God's Judgments and created their own. They were ignorant of God's Righteousness and went about to establish their own. The polluted God's Sabbaths turned God's Word into a religious business. They full well rejected Gods commandments that they might keep their own traditions.

This is what the Jesus "of the Bible" said will happen to them;

"Luke 13: 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

This world's religions that you have adopted have done the same exact thing, only in Christ's Name. This world's religions reject the Feasts of the Lord and walk in and promote ancient manmade religious high days not written by God at all, as if God forget to tell men about them. they have rejected and despised God's Judgments and have created their own, all in Christ's Name. They have created an image of God in the likeness of some random long haired handsome man, and then they have created your own high days in worship of this image. They have created monster religious businesses tied at the hip to this world's governments. The merchants of this world make billions and billions of dollars per year in observance of your own manmade high days, while the Feasts of the Lord are rejected and forgotten. Apparently, there is no real money to be made in the Feasts of the Lord, but the high days created by men influence the entire economy of the world.

There is not ONE example of Faithful man in the entire Bible, that engaged in this behavior. In fact, Jesus warned me over and over and over in the holy scriptures about the religious men of this world who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

Jesus even goes so far as to warn you about this very thing;

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: "depart from me", ye that work iniquity.

I advocate that God be taken seriously, and that we listen to Him and His son and those who HE gave to His Son. We are warned about this world's religions.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, "Ye shall have peace"; and they say unto every one "that walketh" after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

1 Thess. 5: 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

It seems to me that it is God who has a problem with your manmade religion. I'm just the *** that is trying to show you.

 

[TibiasDad]

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from "the rudiments of the world", why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using, after "the commandments and doctrines of men"? Not God as you and "many" who come in Christ's Name falsely teach.

The context of Colossians has Paul speaking to Gentile believers about the Jewish system of rules about “touch not, handle not and taste not”, ie, the whole of the Jewish ceremonial laws which the Judaizers where trying to impose upon them.

Paul says Christ has fulfilled all the laws, these shadows of the things to come, therefore, in Christ, they are passing away and meaningless to believers.

The only allegiance is to Christ, and the proof of said allegiance is to love others as he has loved us!


Doug

 

[Studyman]

The context of Colossians has Paul speaking to Gentile believers about the Jewish system of rules about “touch not, handle not and taste not”, ie, the whole of the Jewish ceremonial laws which the Judaizers where trying to impose upon them.

Yes, as Jesus also teaches.

Matt. 23: 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but "do not" ye after their works: for they say, (When they read Moses) and do not. 4 For they (The Pharisees, not God as you imply) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

What you refuse to accept are the Words of God and His Son, which I have posted over and over and over and over and over, that Jesus said over and over and over, is that the rules and ceremonial laws the Jews and Pharisees were placing on the backs of men, (“touch not, handle not and taste not”) ARE NOT GOD'S LAWS AND RULES, rather, the “touch not, handle not and taste not” that the Jews were promoting, were traditions and doctrines of men.

This is an absolute truth of the Scriptures that you clearly don't believe. But your unbelief in the Words of this Jesus, doesn't make HIS Words false, or irrelevant. To you they are rendered irrelevant, but not to the faithful members of the Church of God.

My hope is that you will repent and turn to Him and away from this world's religions.

Paul says Christ has fulfilled all the laws, these shadows of the things to come, therefore, in Christ, they are passing away and meaningless to believers.

No, Paul doesn't say that. You and Kenneth Copeland and the Pope and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord preaches that. But Paul doesn't.

In Col. 2, Paul is addressing 2 philosophies.

#1. The doctrines and traditions of men.

#2. The statutes and judgments of God.

I posted his words, but you can't bring yourself to even acknowledge them.

Regarding the " Philosophies and Traditions of men, and the Rudiments of this world", Paul said to "Beware" of them, don't be spoiled, (ruined) by them. "Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

But of the Statutes, Commandments and Judgments of God Paul said;

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come;(These do not perish with the using) but the body is of Christ.

God's Laws are written "for my sake no doubt", and are for "my admonition" and are shadows of things that are yet to come in my life. Notice Paul didn't say to "Beware" of God's Judgments, God's Statutes or God's commandments.

You are preaching this to the world. NOT Paul. He goes on;

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in "a voluntary humility" and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

God saw you coming Doug, and HE warned men through Paul not to let you judge them in their obedience to God, but to "Beware" of the religious doctrines and traditions of men, of the religions of this world.

It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is Faith.

The only allegiance is to Christ,

If your allegiance was to the Christ "of the Bible", you would do what HE says. According to your posts, your allegiance is with the traditions and philosophies of your specific adopted religion. And Calvinists theirs, and Catholic's theirs, and the Pharisees theirs.

and the proof of said allegiance is to love others as he has loved us!
Doug

The Jesus "of the Bible" never lied about His Father's Commandments to me. The Jesus "of the Bible" never lied about those who strived to obey God. The Jesus "of the Bible" never called God's judgments and commandments, "Rudiments of this world", "Traditions of men", "worthless Jewish traditions."

You do all of these things. Not because you said, "Today I will reject God and His Instruction", but because you have "Yielded yourself a servant to obey" the religious traditions and philosophy of this world. Paul tells us that we are servants to whom we obey. It seems you don't believe his words there either.

What I advocate, is that men Love others, "As HE loved us". That is why I reply to your posts with Scriptures and plead with you to consider what they actually teach, not simply parrot the religious philosophies of your adopted religion. Not because I don't Love you, but because I do.

 

[civic]

Yes, as Jesus also teaches.

Matt. 23: 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but "do not" ye after their works: for they say, (When they read Moses) and do not. 4 For they (The Pharisees, not God as you imply) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

What you refuse to accept are the Words of God and His Son, which I have posted over and over and over and over and over, that Jesus said over and over and over, is that the rules and ceremonial laws the Jews and Pharisees were placing on the backs of men, (“touch not, handle not and taste not”) ARE NOT GOD'S LAWS AND RULES, rather, the “touch not, handle not and taste not” that the Jews were promoting, were traditions and doctrines of men.

This is an absolute truth of the Scriptures that you clearly don't believe. But your unbelief in the Words of this Jesus, doesn't make HIS Words false, or irrelevant. To you they are rendered irrelevant, but not to the faithful members of the Church of God.

My hope is that you will repent and turn to Him and away from this world's religions.




No, Paul doesn't say that. You and Kenneth Copeland and the Pope and "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord preaches that. But Paul doesn't.

In Col. 2, Paul is addressing 2 philosophies.

#1. The doctrines and traditions of men.

#2. The statutes and judgments of God.

I posted his words, but you can't bring yourself to even acknowledge them.

Regarding the " Philosophies and Traditions of men, and the Rudiments of this world", Paul said to "Beware" of them, don't be spoiled, (ruined) by them. "Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

But of the Statutes, Commandments and Judgments of God Paul said;

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come;(These do not perish with the using) but the body is of Christ.

God's Laws are written "for my sake no doubt", and are for "my admonition" and are shadows of things that are yet to come in my life. Notice Paul didn't say to "Beware" of God's Judgments, God's Statutes or God's commandments.

You are preaching this to the world. NOT Paul. He goes on;

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in "a voluntary humility" and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

God saw you coming Doug, and HE warned men through Paul not to let you judge them in their obedience to God, but to "Beware" of the religious doctrines and traditions of men, of the religions of this world.

It's right there in your own Bible, all you need is Faith.



If your allegiance was to the Christ "of the Bible", you would do what HE says. According to your posts, your allegiance is with the traditions and philosophies of your specific adopted religion. And Calvinists theirs, and Catholic's theirs, and the Pharisees theirs.




The Jesus "of the Bible" never lied about His Father's Commandments to me. The Jesus "of the Bible" never lied about those who strived to obey God. The Jesus "of the Bible" never called God's judgments and commandments, "Rudiments of this world", "Traditions of men", "worthless Jewish traditions."

You do all of these things. Not because you said, "Today I will reject God and His Instruction", but because you have "Yielded yourself a servant to obey" the religious traditions and philosophy of this world. Paul tells us that we are servants to whom we obey. It seems you don't believe his words there either.

What I advocate, is that men Love others, "As HE loved us". That is why I reply to your posts with Scriptures and plead with you to consider what they actually teach, not simply parrot the religious philosophies of your adopted religion. Not because I don't Love you, but because I do.

Jesus said all the law and commandants are fulfilled in these two .

Love God
Love your neighbor

Anything else is placing a yoke. If one loves God with all their mind , heart and soul and loving others then they are living in Gods will bearing the fruit of the spirit. 1 Cor 13 and Gal 5 spell this out for us.

Obedience without love is worthless to God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Jesus said all the law and commandants are fulfilled in these two .
Love God
Love your neighbor

The Jesus "of the Bible" said no such thing. He said the Law and Prophets hang on these two Commandments. Without God's instruction concerning how to Love Him and how to Love others, men are living by the imaginations of your own wicked heart. The Spirit of Christ saw this religion you are promoting coming and warned me about it in the Law and Prophets.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination "of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

Both Jesus and Paul continued to warn about this world's religions, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord", but Transgress God's commandments by their own philosophies and traditions.

As Paul warns Titus, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

This is undeniable Biblical Truth.

Anything else is placing a yoke.

This is why I warn as many as I can to trust the Scriptures, but not the promoters of the religious sects and businesses of this world.

The Jesus "of the Bible" said "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You promote that Jesus is "Placing a Yoke" on my neck.

This same Jesus said to "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

But you imply that Jesus is "placing another Yoke" on my neck.

This same Jesus sad;

"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

But you just said that Love God, Love my neighbor is the only Law of God, "Anything else is placing a yoke".

So, although I love you, I cannot listen to you because you are promoting a false doctrine contrary to Christ's Own Words, no different than the Calvinist you berate.

If one loves God with all their mind , heart and soul and loving others then they are living in Gods will bearing the fruit of the spirit.

This is true. Telling people lies about God and His instruction in righteousness, accusing God of placing a Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men who trust Him, and twisting God's Words to justify manmade religious philosophies, is a fruit of a spirit no doubt, just not the Spirit of God.

1 Cor 13 and Gal 5 spell this out for us.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

You promote the religious philosophy that the "Yoke of Bondage" the Jews were entangled in, is God's Laws that HE placed on the necks of those children of Abraham that trusted in Him. And Jesus had to come and save them from His Father.

A more evil, wicked and false Judgment against God could not even exist. And that you Judge God in such an evil way, without even the slightest fear or shame is the reason why I am so thankful God called me out of this world's religions. It's no wonder Jesus warned us so many times about men "Who come in His Name".

The Jesus "of the Bible" said of the Jews "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

But not all Jews lived in this manner. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and many more men obeyed God's Laws, and they were not a Yoke of Bondage to them. In fact, Peter said because they obeyed God's Laws, God gave them HIS Holy Spirit.

Even you must understand that when confronted with your religious philosophy, and God's Own Words, a man that Loves God will choose His Word over yours. I'm not ashamed that I Love Him enough to believe Him.

Obedience without love is worthless to God.

Disobedience to God is the fruit of the spirit of the prince of this world.


Hope this helps!

 

[civic]

The Jesus "of the Bible" said no such thing. He said the Law and Prophets hang on these two Commandments. Without God's instruction concerning how to Love Him and how to Love others, men are living by the imaginations of your own wicked heart. The Spirit of Christ saw this religion you are promoting coming and warned me about it in the Law and Prophets.

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination "of his own heart", No evil shall come upon you.

Both Jesus and Paul continued to warn about this world's religions, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord", but Transgress God's commandments by their own philosophies and traditions.

As Paul warns Titus, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

This is undeniable Biblical Truth.



This is why I warn as many as I can to trust the Scriptures, but not the promoters of the religious sects and businesses of this world.

The Jesus "of the Bible" said "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You promote that Jesus is "Placing a Yoke" on my neck.

This same Jesus said to "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

But you imply that Jesus is "placing another Yoke" on my neck.

This same Jesus sad;

"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

But you just said that Love God, Love my neighbor is the only Law of God, "Anything else is placing a yoke".

So, although I love you, I cannot listen to you because you are promoting a false doctrine contrary to Christ's Own Words, no different than the Calvinist you berate.




This is true. Telling people lies about God and His instruction in righteousness, accusing God of placing a Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men who trust Him, and twisting God's Words to justify manmade religious philosophies, is a fruit of a spirit no doubt, just not the Spirit of God.



"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

You promote the religious philosophy that the "Yoke of Bondage" the Jews were entangled in, is God's Laws that HE placed on the necks of those children of Abraham that trusted in Him. And Jesus had to come and save them from His Father.

A more evil, wicked and false Judgment against God could not even exist. And that you Judge God in such an evil way, without even the slightest fear or shame is the reason why I am so thankful God called me out of this world's religions. It's no wonder Jesus warned us so many times about men "Who come in His Name".

The Jesus "of the Bible" said of the Jews "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition".

But not all Jews lived in this manner. Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and many more men obeyed God's Laws, and they were not a Yoke of Bondage to them. In fact, Peter said because they obeyed God's Laws, God gave them HIS Holy Spirit.

Even you must understand that when confronted with your religious philosophy, and God's Own Words, a man that Loves God will choose His Word over yours. I'm not ashamed that I Love Him enough to believe Him.



Disobedience to God is the fruit of the spirit of the prince of this world.


Hope this helps!

You are projecting with your legalism much like the self righteous Pharisees that Jesus condemned. You lack humility and are filled with pride and arrogance. Humility and love go hand in hand together. Hate and pride are just the opposite and are two sides of the same coin and go hand in hand together.

Now here is the truth regarding love.

Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God either.

James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

John 13:34-35
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:17
17 "This I command you, that you love one another

Matt 22:37-40
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.


1 John 4:7-14
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 John 4:16-21
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

What biblical love looks like in the mirror. Paul defines love below and what it should look like in the Christians life

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Galatians 5:22-25
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

James 2
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture,“Love your neighbor as yourself,”you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


1 Peter 1- Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 Peter 2:8- Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

2 Peter 1- For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

In the above we can see Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James are all saying the same thing in unison.

conclusion: God is love. God never asks us to do anything or be anything that is not about His own character. Its why Love is the Mountain Top in Theology. Its who God is within His own Being as Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Everything God is and does flows from His love as described above in the passages.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TibiasDad]

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come;(These do not perish with the using) but the body is of Christ.

Which are a shadow . . . but the body (the substance) is of Christ.—The spirit of the passage is precisely that of the argument which runs through the Epistle to the Hebrews. “The Law had a shadow of good things to come, not the very image (or, substance) of the things” (Hebrews 10:1). When St. Paul deals with the legal and coercive aspect of the Law, he calls it “the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.” (See Galatians 3:24, and Note there.) When he turns to its ritual aspect, he describes it as simply foreshadowing or typifying the substance; and therefore useful before the revelation of the substance, useless or (if trusted in) worse than useless, after it. In every way “Christ is the end of the Law” (Romans 10:4). (Ellicott’s Commentary on Col 2:17)

The things mentioned in verse 16 are the things “which are the shadow of things to come”, that is the shadow of Christ himself. Once Christ came, we now have the real thing; the shadows have done what they were intended to do and are now no longer needed!

They are obsolete and abandoned, mere historical artifacts of what once was, like chariots in war; factual, but useless in today’s economy.

Doug

 

[Studyman]

You are projecting with your legalism much like the self righteous Pharisees that Jesus condemned. You lack humility and are filled with pride and arrogance. Humility and love go hand in hand together. Hate and pride are just the opposite and are two sides of the same coin and go hand in hand together.

Now here is the truth regarding love.

Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God either.

Preaching to others that God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage God placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who loved Him and trusted Him is a wicked and evil judgment against God, it is not Love. If I didn't point this wickedness that you are promoting out to you, knowing full well you will hate me for it, I would not be loving you with God's Love.

You have a rebuke coming for promoting this worldly false and wicked philosophy, and I hope with all my heart that you will repent and stop spewing these falsehoods and evil judgments against God.

I don't care what you say about me, I am nothing. But what you preach about God to others, these things matter. And promoting lies about God is not Love. That is the Truth.

 

[civic]

Preaching to others that God's Law is a Yoke of Bondage God placed on the necks of Abraham's Children who loved Him and trusted Him is a wicked and evil judgment against God, it is not Love. If I didn't point this wickedness that you are promoting out to you, knowing full well you will hate me for it, I would not be loving you with God's Love.

You have a rebuke coming for promoting this worldly false and wicked philosophy, and I hope with all my heart that you will repent and stop spewing these falsehoods and evil judgments against God.

I don't care what you say about me, I am nothing. But what you preach about God to others, these things matter. And promoting lies about God is not Love. That is the Truth.

I’m not a Jew under the law . My Lord gave me a new covenant and the old is obsolete .

And you are bearing false witness against me since my theology is based upon God is love.

Next

 

[Studyman]

Which are a shadow . . . but the body (the substance) is of Christ.—

Wow, you are doing it again. You are cherry picking words to justify your own adopted religious philosophy.

Here is what is actually written.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow "of things to come"; but the body is of Christ.

There isn't one mention of animal sacrifices here, these are not part of the Levitical Priesthood duties at all.

In Hebrews 10, you did the same thing. You cherry pick the Scriptures to promote and justify your own agenda.

Here is what Heb. 10 actually teaches.

Heb. 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Why would you keep doing this?

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes, as Jesus also teaches.

Matt. 23: 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but "do not" ye after their works: for they say, (When they read Moses) and do not. 4 For they (The Pharisees, not God as you imply) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus is pointing out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, and he is telling the people “to do as they (the Pharisees) say, but not as they do”.

The griping about unwashed hands was a hedge command to keep from breaking the actual command. It is a well meaning barrier, but it was not divine in nature, but the Pharisees were teaching it as if it were. That is part of Jesus’s anger against them.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Here is what Heb. 10 actually teaches.

Heb. 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hebrews 10 is built on the foundation of Hebrews 8, which concludes, “13By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”

The Old Covenant is obsolete and outdated!

The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant and all that it was. The New Covenant establishes the rights and wrongs within it, the moral code- the Decalogue- was not changed, but the ceremonial law and the Sacrificial law is obsolete in the New Covenant.

Again, Paul’s admonition in Rom 14 is all that is needed to establish the truth, and I will only quote a latter portion of it for brevity’s sake:

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.



Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Lying about me and my posts come so easy to you. It sends chills up my spine with the ease in which you can slander another, who has done you no wrong.

You cannot find ONE Post, ONE Word where I said, promoted, suggested or even implied that men need to observe the doctrines and traditions of men, Jew or otherwise.

Are you or are you not telling me that I have to keep the OT dietary laws which forbid eating certain types of food and meat?

That is all that I have said that you are requiring of me. Not man made rules, like eating with dirty hands, but God’s commandments regarding forbidden foods.

Quit making ad hom arguments, it is beneath you to say such things.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

You are projecting with your legalism much like the self righteous Pharisees that Jesus condemned. You lack humility and are filled with pride and arrogance. Humility and love go hand in hand together. Hate and pride are just the opposite and are two sides of the same coin and go hand in hand together.

Now here is the truth regarding love.

Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God either.

James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

John 13:34-35
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:17
17 "This I command you, that you love one another

Matt 22:37-40
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.


1 John 4:7-14
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 John 4:16-21
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

What biblical love looks like in the mirror. Paul defines love below and what it should look like in the Christians life

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Galatians 5:22-25
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

James 2
My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture,“Love your neighbor as yourself,”you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


1 Peter 1- Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 Peter 2:8- Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.

2 Peter 1- For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

In the above we can see Jesus, Paul, John, Peter and James are all saying the same thing in unison.

conclusion: God is love. God never asks us to do anything or be anything that is not about His own character. Its why Love is the Mountain Top in Theology. Its who God is within His own Being as Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Everything God is and does flows from His love as described above in the passages.

hope this helps !!!

Amen, and Amen!!!


Doug

 

[civic]

Amen, and Amen!!!


Doug

Yes brother

 

[Studyman]

Are you or are you not telling me that I have to keep the OT dietary laws which forbid eating certain types of food and meat?

I am trying to have an honest discussion about Paul's teaching in Colossians, in search of Biblical Truth. Like the Jesus "of the Bible", Paul treated God's judgments, statutes and commandments differently than he treated doctrines and traditions of religious men. This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth. You make no distinction between God's Spoken judgments, statutes and commandments, from the religious traditions of wicked men, whose father was the devil. Treating God's Words and Judgments as if they are the same as the Pharisees traditions. Even going so far as to call God's Laws, "Rudiments of this world". Paul doesn't do that, although you preach to others that he does.

According to Paul, there are things which exist in this world that God has deemed NOT food. Blood, meat from strangled animals to name just a couple. There are also maggots, slugs, Pigs, dogs, etc. that God also deems "not food". If you want to know what God's judgments are for His Children, you can find them in the Gospel of Christ where it is written "The Just shall live by Faith". In Col. 2, Paul said to the Faithful not to let others judge them for their obedience concerning His Feasts, and what HE teaches His children concerning what is and is not food.

The Jesus of the Bible also tells me not to worry about these things, but to "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness, and all these things will be added to me.

Jesus didn't say, "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness", and then reject them so you can keep your own adopted religious traditions. But that is what you are promoting.

That is all that I have said that you are requiring of me. Not man made rules, like eating with dirty hands, but God’s commandments regarding forbidden foods.

But Doug, you twist the Words of Christ concerning the Traditions of the Pharisees, like washing hands a certain way that Jesus spoke to, and you use this event to justify your rejection of God's instruction to "Abstain" from eating certain things.

Again, to me it's about what is actually written. Disobedience to God, dishonor towards God, unbelief in God, these all come from within and defile a man. Eating bread with unwashed hands doesn't. How is it you cannot see this glaring truth of Jesus' teaching?

Quit making ad hom arguments, it is beneath you to say such things.

The hypocrisy is astounding. You, as a father, claim the right to define for your children what is and what is not food. And you do not allow your children to just blow you off and reject your instruction simply because the dog poop looks like chocolate. You have a good reason to make these judgments for your children, even though they don't understand them at the time.

But you deny the God and Father of us all the same right and obligation, who created everything in the first place, to direct HIS Children as to what is holy and what is not holy. Implying that God isn't smart enough, or wise enough to direct "YOU" in the "way" that you should go. But Wesley is, the Pope is, and for many, Calvin is.

Jesus didn't do this in Mark 7, and Paul didn't do this in Col. 2. You twist their words to imply that they did, to justify your own traditions, but when an honest examination of Scriptures is engaged in, they did no such thing.

As Paul teaches, you are a servant to whomever you "Yield yourself" a servant to obey.

The purpose of my posts is to examine what the Scriptures actually say. I understand perfectly why Paul said to the Church of God not to let men judge them in their obedience and voluntary humility towards God and His judgments, as they are shadows of things we all contend with in our lives. And I also understand why Paul, in the same Chapter, told the same believers to "Beware" of the philosophies and traditions of the men of this world. The men who promote the religions of this world have judged and ridiculed, even killed the "children of obedience" since Cain killed Abel. Paul was well versed on how this world's religious men treated those who "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", like Stephen for example. Who you would call a "Legalists" and a "Judaizer", even though you can't define Judaism.

What if God actually knows what HE is doing? What if His Commandments are written "For our sakes no doubt" as Paul teaches?

Someone should ask these questions for the edification of the brethren, even if it might offend some of them.