Humility And Calvinism?

[TibiasDad]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, "who walk" not after the flesh, (doctrines and traditions of men) but after the Spirit. ( instruction in the Righteousness "of God")

Flesh is the sinful nature, not the doctrines and traditions of man! The sinful nature and the Spirit are the contrasting forces by which man may choose to live in Romans 8.

Still waiting on what your gospel preaches and an answer to the circumcision issue!


Doug

 

[Studyman]

The law and the prophets were fulfilled at the end of Jesus’s ministry! Fulfilled things still exist, but are no longer needed, they have accomplished their purpose.

Oh my goodness, in your religion Jesus' Ministry Ended? Who is teaching you these things Doug? The whole point of the Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" was a Priest that lasts forever, not a Priest whose Ministry Ends.

Heb. 7: 22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, "because" they were not suffered to continue by "reason of death": 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that "come unto God" by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is why I left the religion you are promoting, because this is the kind of falsehoods they ingrain in the minds of men who adopt them.

God placed an unbearable, impossible to keep, Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men who placed their Faith in Him.

God's Laws only bring Death, I have heard this from the religions of this world since I was a kid.

God lied to Abraham and to Abraham's children, and God also lied about Abraham to us.

And now you preach that the Ministry of the Lord's Christ Ended at His Death.

And yet HE speaks to every generation of man from the Same Scriptures that God inspired to be written. Centuries after Jesus ascended unto His Father and my Father, a man will be called by God and this man will pick up the Bible and read it. And HE will read Jesus warn about men who call Him Lord, Lord, and HE will tell them not to even "THINK" He came to destroy His Father's Words written in the Law and Prophets. And HE will tell this man that he should "Live By" "EVERY WORD" that proceeds from the mouth of God. And HE will warn about "many" deceivers who shall "come in His Name" and deceive many. How is it that you come to believe the Ministry of Christ Ended? Who taught you that? Not God Doug, that is for sure.

And that man will also hear the promoters of you and Civic's and the Calvinist's religion, telling this man not to listen to this Jesus, because HIS Ministry has ended. God's Law has been abolished, as it only brings death and God cannot be trusted because HE lies to people and burdens them with worthless Jewish Traditions. And that the New Jesus has NO LAWS, as Civic said.

The religions of this world have been trying to turn men away from God since the serpent, "Who professed to know God" convinced Eve that God was a liar, just as it has convinced you.

My hope is that God will allow you to see what is actually written, so that you might "come out of her" and partake not of her sins.

What makes us Jewish is no longer circumcision of flesh,

It was never circumcision of the flesh that made Abraham a Jew inwardly Doug. Abraham was a Jew inwardly, with a circumcised heart for years before the outward sign.

He humbled himself in obedience to God when he was 75. He wasn't physically circumcised until he was 99. You and the Pharisees just can't seem to get this in your mind. Being a child of Abraham, AKA, "a Jew" was never about Circumcision of the Flesh, but Circumcision of the heart.

My issue with your preaching, is that you promote the imaginations of your own mind, and not from the mouth of God. Even now, will you accept what the Scriptures teach about Christ's Ministry? About God's Laws?

My guess is that you will continue on the broad path of self-justification. I hope I'm wrong, but it is your choice.

or not eating certain foods, but circumcision of the heart by the Spirit. The OT is focused on the outward things as a shadow image of the NT realities that were yet to come. As has been stated over and over again, the OT is obsolete and irrelevant in the NT.

This is the serpents message to Eve. There is no Law of God in the garden HE placed us in. You are your own god and you can create your own law, which both you and Civic and the Calvinists have done.

While this is a very seductive religion, and "many" most certainly will be snared by her as prophesied, Neither Jesus, the Prophets, Peter or Paul nor any of the Disciples in the Bible promoted such a religion.

Not the moral code, but the laws that were peculiar to being Jewish as opposed to Gentile, the sacrificial laws and dietary restrictions, are now obsolete.

Doug

God is not a Jew, and God is not a respecter of persons. I posted His own Words in which HE details for both you and I who His Laws were for. It is true, however, that the Priesthood did change. I have also posted the Inspired Words of God which show this.

But you don't believe in Him.

 

[Studyman]

Thank you, I just realized my miswording:
"Keeping the law only produces death" is not what I should have said, or meant to say. Obviously “keeping” the law is good, though not life giving, for by the law no man is saved. But the law, as previously shown by my citation of Romans 7 in previous posts, is the means of death by the sinful nature within us.

Doug

Again, you didn't "misspeak", you are simply promoting a religious doctrine I have heard preached in the synagogues and on the streets since I was a kid. You are not the first to preach the lie to others that God's Law only brings death. And you won't be the last.

Paul said: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers" "of the law" shall be justified.

But then Paul says to the promoters of the religious sect of the Pharisees, who rejected God's Laws and created their own, who had God's Oracles given to them but didn't believe them, who persecuted and killed the Prophets, and the Church of God, that they can't bring a sacrifice to God, a "work of the Law", and be justified. I have pointed out to both you and Civic Isaiah 1, which is where I believe Paul got this teaching, since he himself said he believes "ALL" that is written in the Law and Prophets. But neither you, nor Civic would even acknowledge these Scriptures, as you also refuse to acknowledge many others.

These religious men who "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate", would come to the temple each week, and offer a sacrifice, "a work of the Law", to justify themselves of their rejection of God and willful rebellion against Him and His Instruction in Righteousness. That isn't how it works with God. You can live your life in rejection of His judgments, statutes and commandments, and then come before Him with a sacrifice, "AS PER THE LAW", but by "works of the LAW" no flesh is justified.

But the man who walks in the Righteousness of God, "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality," Paul said these men shall be Justified.

These men who do not "yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves "unto God", as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness "unto God".

These men are justified.

But religious men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who preach in His Name, who give Jesus the credit for everything they do, but full well reject God's Judgments and Laws, and create their own judgments and laws, they are not justified of their willful rejection and rebellion against God, by bringing the Blood of the Lamb of God, as per the Law, to justify them. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith (Belief in God) without the deeds of the law. (Blood for sin offering)

 

[civic]

Oh my goodness, in your religion Jesus' Ministry Ended? Who is teaching you these things Doug? The whole point of the Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" was a Priest that lasts forever, not a Priest whose Ministry Ends.

Heb. 7: 22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, "because" they were not suffered to continue by "reason of death": 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that "come unto God" by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is why I left the religion you are promoting, because this is the kind of falsehoods they ingrain in the minds of men who adopt them.

God placed an unbearable, impossible to keep, Yoke of Bondage on the necks of men who placed their Faith in Him.

God's Laws only bring Death, I have heard this from the religions of this world since I was a kid.

God lied to Abraham and to Abraham's children, and God also lied about Abraham to us.

And now you preach that the Ministry of the Lord's Christ Ended at His Death.

And yet HE speaks to every generation of man from the Same Scriptures that God inspired to be written. Centuries after Jesus ascended unto His Father and my Father, a man will be called by God and this man will pick up the Bible and read it. And HE will read Jesus warn about men who call Him Lord, Lord, and HE will tell them not to even "THINK" He came to destroy His Father's Words written in the Law and Prophets. And HE will tell this man that he should "Live By" "EVERY WORD" that proceeds from the mouth of God. And HE will warn about "many" deceivers who shall "come in His Name" and deceive many. How is it that you come to believe the Ministry of Christ Ended? Who taught you that? Not God Doug, that is for sure.

And that man will also hear the promoters of you and Civic's and the Calvinist's religion, telling this man not to listen to this Jesus, because HIS Ministry has ended. God's Law has been abolished, as it only brings death and God cannot be trusted because HE lies to people and burdens them with worthless Jewish Traditions. And that the New Jesus has NO LAWS, as Civic said.

The religions of this world have been trying to turn men away from God since the serpent, "Who professed to know God" convinced Eve that God was a liar, just as it has convinced you.

My hope is that God will allow you to see what is actually written, so that you might "come out of her" and partake not of her sins.



It was never circumcision of the flesh that made Abraham a Jew inwardly Doug. Abraham was a Jew inwardly, with a circumcised heart for years before the outward sign.

He humbled himself in obedience to God when he was 75. He wasn't physically circumcised until he was 99. You and the Pharisees just can't seem to get this in your mind. Being a child of Abraham, AKA, "a Jew" was never about Circumcision of the Flesh, but Circumcision of the heart.

My issue with your preaching, is that you promote the imaginations of your own mind, and not from the mouth of God. Even now, will you accept what the Scriptures teach about Christ's Ministry? About God's Laws?

My guess is that you will continue on the broad path of self-justification. I hope I'm wrong, but it is your choice.



This is the serpents message to Eve. There is no Law of God in the garden HE placed us in. You are your own god and you can create your own law, which both you and Civic and the Calvinists have done.

While this is a very seductive religion, and "many" most certainly will be snared by her as prophesied, Neither Jesus, the Prophets, Peter or Paul nor any of the Disciples in the Bible promoted such a religion.




God is not a Jew, and God is not a respecter of persons. I posted His own Words in which HE details for both you and I who His Laws were for. It is true, however, that the Priesthood did change. I have also posted the Inspired Words of God which show this.

But you don't believe in Him.

Your religion is identical to the Pharisees. Like them you deny Jesus and His teachings.

 

[Studyman]

You keep saying we are preaching another gospel, but you never tell us what “gospel” you preach.

If you were to read my posts, with the intent of understanding them, as I do yours, then you would know what I promote. But so far, your only interest has been self-justification.

We preach Christ crucified, buried and raised on the third day, ascended into heaven. And all who believe in him are saved and new creations in Christ.

Paul promoted the Holy scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"

He told Timothy, "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which "is in" Christ Jesus.

The Jesus of the Bible teaches "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

But you and the Calvinists and most all of this world's religious sects and businesses preach that the Law and Prophets are abolished.

Paul said of the Law and Prophets "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

But you preach the Law and Prophets are abolished.

Paul said, even of the Least of the Commandments of God given by Moses;

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? "For our sakes", no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

But you and Civic, and the Calvinists all preach to the world a gospel that teaches the Law and Prophets are abolished.

So the gospel you and the Calvinists promote, is way different than the Gospel of the Christ of the Bible, that Paul promotes, as is clearly demonstrated in these series of posts. I have adopted the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible". While you have adopted the gospel of this world's religions who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but "DO NOT" what HE says.

I advocate that you turn to God through this Christ of the Bible as Paul teaches.

"Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

As Paul says, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” Gal 1:8-9

Doug

And of course, where do we find what God's Curses are? In the Same Holy Scriptures that you and Civic and the Calvinists all preach to the world have been abolished.

 

[Studyman]

What part of “it used what is good to bring about my death” is hard to understand? We are dead because the law aroused the sinful nature within us. The sinful nature is the killer and the law is it’s weapon.

Doug

You can carefully select certain parts of a verse here or a sentence there to promote your anti-God teaching that God's Law only brings death. What I advocate for is that a person reads "ALL" of the message from Paul, seeking God's Truth, not always self-justification.

In this case, when a person is honest, he will also recognize these words of Paul that you must omit, as they can't be used to justify your rebellion against God's Laws.

"Was then that which is good "made death unto me"? God forbid. That means NO! Doug, God's Good, Holy and Just LAW didn't make death unto Paul.

So the sentence you omitted and ignored completely exposed you preaching, "The sinful nature is the killer and the law is it’s weapon", as another false gospel, just like "TULIP".

The preaching that God created His Law so that sinful man can kill others with it, is another insidious lie and evil judgment against God and His Righteousness. Paul tells you why the price for rebellion against God's Law is so steep. But because your mission, like Civic's and the Calvinists, is not to promote the Gospel of Christ, but to promote and defend your own religious sect, with your own judgments and you own statutes. This is what the Pharisees did as well.

 

[civic]

You keep saying we are preaching another gospel, but you never tell us what “gospel” you preach.

We preach Christ crucified, buried and raised on the third day, ascended into heaven. And all who believe in him are saved and new creations in Christ.

As Paul says, “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” Gal 1:8-9

Doug

It’s projecting since he is the one preaching another gospel, another jesus as per Pauls criteria in Galatians 1-2.

 

[Studyman]

This has nothing to do with what I said. I said

Here is your gospel.

"Any and all of God’s laws bring death because the sinful nature makes it impossible for us to not break the law.

What I said exactly addresses this blasphemy you promote against God. What did the Jesus "of the Bible" teach?

Matt. 18: 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye "shall not" enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I will ask you another question you can ignore, "Does God know children will fall in their journey?" Consider the wickedness in your gospel above. The man comes to God as a child as instructed, not knowing how to walk in Christ, not knowing what to eat, what to drink, what covering to seek. Will he not fall in his quest to learn, even as a child falls as it learns to walk? And why does the child fall? Because God is evil, and His Creation wicked? Should God, in your judgments of Him, create children to walk straight out of the womb? Or is it the Wisdom of God that men should "Learn" how to walk, just as they "Learn" obedience from the things they suffered.

And when God brings the new man, the "child" to His Son Jesus, what does Jesus tell Him?

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father "knoweth" that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and "all these things" shall be added unto you.


Seek God's Truth Doug, not always self-justification.

This is a statement about mankind and his state of sinfulness at birth and how it reacts when learning what the law says.

Nobody born of Adam can resist against the sinful nature indefinitely.

All men have sinned, before repentance, just as all children fall, before they learn how to walk. This is the very creation of God.

Our innate setting of behavior is toward our own interests.

The instinct of self-preservation is in every human, placed there by God. Just as anger, and love and compassion and hatred are also emotions created by God and placed within us. Emotions God also has, as is revealed in the Gospel of Christ that was given to Israel.

In our journey from childhood to adulthood, we are to learn how to "Rule over" these emotions and use them for good only, not evil. As God showed Cain. But one must first humble themselves to the Father and believe in Him to direct them. Abel did this, Cain refused. These are part of the examples God had written for our admonition. Examples you and Civic preach are abolished.

Thus Paul’s choice of coveting as his example to prove is point in Rom 7. Before the command, he had no concept of being covetous, but we he was told “do not covet”, he suddenly began to covet and or realized he had been covetous all along.

I have shown already that the Scriptures do not support your gospel in this matter. Before God's commandment came to Abraham, or Noah, or Caleb, or David, or Zacharias, or Simeon or John the Baptist, did these men also find they were dead in their sins and trespasses? Where is your evidence that these men, upon seeing God's Commandments, ran off to rebel against them like you do?

When did God's commandment come to Paul? Before or after Annanias? And what was the remedy Paul promoted for his condition?

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank "God" through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve "the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But you and Civic promote this world's religious philosophy that the Laws of God's are abolished. Clearly Paul promotes a different Gospel than you.

I love both you and Civic, but I hate the falsehoods you have adopted and are promoting about Him and His Son, just as Civic hates the false gospel of Calvinism. This is why I take the time to point out the difference between the gospel you and the Calvinists promote, and the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible" that the Holy Scriptures promote.

This isn’t about a new believer’s walk, this is about why the law was given and why that purpose was not to provide salvation, but rather to reveal that we are sinful and in need of salvation.
Doug

The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Before the Holy One of Israel, the Rock, the Prophesied Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" came, the Church of God existed, and God/Christ was in them. And the mainstream religions of this world, including the religious sect of the Pharisees, persecuted them as Paul and David both professed.

Psalms 14: 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the "generation of the righteous". 6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.

God gives us some examples of this "Generation of the Righteous" in the NT.

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Of course, you and Civic imply that this a lie, impossible, and therefore to discard this teaching. But consider what is said about Zacharias, Simeon and Anna. They were all obedient servants of God, "Yielding themselves" servants to obey God as Paul instructs. They were perfect before God as the Christ instructed. They all were given the Holy Spirit, and they all knew and believed in the Christ as their savior even before HE was born.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of "his holy prophets", which have been since the world began:

In your religion, was Zacharias and Simeon and Anna, members of the Church of God, the "Generation of the Righteous" that God is in?

And didn't Jesus say to those HE healed "Now go and Sin no more"? How can a man know what Sin is, if the Law that gives us the knowledge of sin, is abolished, as you and the serpent in the garden promote?

Wasn't the Law given to show me what Sin is, according to Paul? And why do I need to know these things?

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness "unto God".

If the Holy scriptures that reveals to men the righteousness of God, and the Wrath of God against the unrighteousness and ungodliness of men is abolished, as you and Civic Preach, then how can I know What God's definition of sin is?

I will only know the prince of this world's definition, your definition, Calvinists definition of sin is.

This is why Jesus said to "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities".

 

[civic]

Here is your gospel.

"Any and all of God’s laws bring death because the sinful nature makes it impossible for us to not break the law.

What I said exactly addresses this blasphemy you promote against God. What did the Jesus "of the Bible" teach?

Matt. 18: 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye "shall not" enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I will ask you another question you can ignore, "Does God know children will fall in their journey?" Consider the wickedness in your gospel above. The man comes to God as a child as instructed, not knowing how to walk in Christ, not knowing what to eat, what to drink, what covering to seek. Will he not fall in his quest to learn, even as a child falls as it learns to walk? And why does the child fall? Because God is evil, and His Creation wicked? Should God, in your judgments of Him, create children to walk straight out of the womb? Or is it the Wisdom of God that men should "Learn" how to walk, just as they "Learn" obedience from the things they suffered.

And when God brings the new man, the "child" to His Son Jesus, what does Jesus tell Him?

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father "knoweth" that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and "all these things" shall be added unto you.


Seek God's Truth Doug, not always self-justification.




All men have sinned, before repentance, just as all children fall, before they learn how to walk. This is the very creation of God.



The instinct of self-preservation is in every human, placed there by God. Just as anger, and love and compassion and hatred are also emotions created by God and placed within us. Emotions God also has, as is revealed in the Gospel of Christ that was given to Israel.

In our journey from childhood to adulthood, we are to learn how to "Rule over" these emotions and use them for good only, not evil. As God showed Cain. But one must first humble themselves to the Father and believe in Him to direct them. Abel did this, Cain refused. These are part of the examples God had written for our admonition. Examples you and Civic preach are abolished.



I have shown already that the Scriptures do not support your gospel in this matter. Before God's commandment came to Abraham, or Noah, or Caleb, or David, or Zacharias, or Simeon or John the Baptist, did these men also find they were dead in their sins and trespasses? Where is your evidence that these men, upon seeing God's Commandments, ran off to rebel against them like you do?

When did God's commandment come to Paul? Before or after Annanias? And what was the remedy Paul promoted for his condition?

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank "God" through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve "the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin.

But you and Civic promote this world's religious philosophy that the Laws of God's are abolished. Clearly Paul promotes a different Gospel than you.

I love both you and Civic, but I hate the falsehoods you have adopted and are promoting about Him and His Son, just as Civic hates the false gospel of Calvinism. This is why I take the time to point out the difference between the gospel you and the Calvinists promote, and the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible" that the Holy Scriptures promote.



The Jesus "of the Bible" said;

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Before the Holy One of Israel, the Rock, the Prophesied Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" came, the Church of God existed, and God/Christ was in them. And the mainstream religions of this world, including the religious sect of the Pharisees, persecuted them as Paul and David both professed.

Psalms 14: 4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the "generation of the righteous". 6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor, because the LORD is his refuge.

God gives us some examples of this "Generation of the Righteous" in the NT.

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Of course, you and Civic imply that this a lie, impossible, and therefore to discard this teaching. But consider what is said about Zacharias, Simeon and Anna. They were all obedient servants of God, "Yielding themselves" servants to obey God as Paul instructs. They were perfect before God as the Christ instructed. They all were given the Holy Spirit, and they all knew and believed in the Christ as their savior even before HE was born.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of "his holy prophets", which have been since the world began:

In your religion, was Zacharias and Simeon and Anna, members of the Church of God, the "Generation of the Righteous" that God is in?

And didn't Jesus say to those HE healed "Now go and Sin no more"? How can a man know what Sin is, if the Law that gives us the knowledge of sin, is abolished, as you and the serpent in the garden promote?

Wasn't the Law given to show me what Sin is, according to Paul? And why do I need to know these things?

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness "unto God".

If the Holy scriptures that reveals to men the righteousness of God, and the Wrath of God against the unrighteousness and ungodliness of men is abolished, as you and Civic Preach, then how can I know What God's definition of sin is?

I will only know the prince of this world's definition, your definition, Calvinists definition of sin is.

This is why Jesus said to "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities".

Have you sinned since you became a believer ? Yes or no

 

[Studyman]

Your religion is identical to the Pharisees. Like them you deny Jesus and His teachings.

What else do you or the Calvinist's have Civic, you can't use, discuss or honestly examine the Scriptures because they expose you both. So, you must resort to the tactic of the Pharisees, like they did to Jesus and Paul and the Church of God before them.

I don't care about what you think about a nobody like me, or the falsehoods you promote with zero evidence. But I still hope, in the privacy of your own home, when there are no other men to impress, that you consider what the Scriptures actually say concerning your and the Calvinists adopted religious philosophies.

 

[TibiasDad]

Oh my goodness, in your religion Jesus' Ministry Ended?

Studyman,

With all due respect, I am going to have to end this conversation if you are going to make such statements!

Jesus’s earthly ministry ended, but you make a hyperbolic argument about Jesus no longer doing anything! I am more than willingly to converse with you, or anyone else for that matter, when the conversation is respectful, but you seem to just be looking for a fight.

I appreciate that you feel I am in error, and that you’re making an effort to “correct” my path. But Scripture says we are to speak the truth in love, and jumping to such absurd conclusions like ‘your teaching Jesus is twiddling his thumbs’ is beyond the pale of reasonable, much less a loving approach.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Again, you didn't "misspeak", you are simply promoting a religious doctrine I have heard preached in the synagogues and on the streets since I was a kid.

So now I’m purposefully lying about my motives? Okay, this tells me a lot!


Doug

 

[civic]

So now I’m purposefully lying about my motives? Okay, this tells me a lot!


Doug

Ditto

 

[TibiasDad]

Here is your gospel.

"Any and all of God’s laws bring death because the sinful nature makes it impossible for us to not break the law.

Have you kept the law perfectly? Or would Jesus say to you “there is one thing that you lack!”

Then you are proof that it is impossible to not break the law! “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!” My statement is irrefutable; unless you can produce a person born of Adam that has never sinned!

Doug

 

[civic]

Have you kept the law perfectly? Or would Jesus say to you “there is one thing that you lack!”

Then you are proof that it is impossible to not break the law! “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!” My statement is irrefutable; unless you can produce a person born of Adam that has never sinned!

Doug

Yes he dodged my question about “ have you sinned since becoming a “ believer “ ?

Crickets

 

[Studyman]

Why does sin no longer have dominion over us?

Paul says "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

If you still let Sin reign in your mortal body, then sin still has dominion over you. Don't you know this, Paul asks?

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So, isn't Paul saying that if you choose to Transgress God's Commandments, it still leads to death, even years after Jesus ascended to His Father and my Father?

But the spirit on you forbids you to answer.

Because we are not under the law now!

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Again, that means NO Doug, God's people don't willfully transgress His Laws, just because we have been forgiven our past sins.

The moral law still proves we are under sin. The moral law still does what it was intended to do.

Who gave you the power to judge God or His Law as immoral or moral? Where did the Jesus "of the Bible" judge God's Law as "immoral"?

You exalted yourself into the judge of God. As Prophesied.

The ceremonial laws and sacrificial laws are “obsolete and passing away”:

The Levitical Priesthood Law was changed, and the manner in which sins are forgiven, and God's Laws were administered in it, has become old and passed away. As it is written; I would post God's Inspired Words which show this truth again, but you completely ignored them and rejected them the last time I posted them. So clearly you are not here seeking Biblical Truth, rather, justification of your own specific adopted religious sect.

it is these that we are no longer obligated to follow. This includes circumcision, which no one seems to deny is no longer necessary in Christ. If not circumcision, why not dietary restrictions?

Doug

Circumcision of the heart is still a requirement of God now as it was in Genesis and Deuteronomy. Concerning God's instruction for His Children, including HIS Son, concerning what is food and what is not, I refuse to deny my Father and Jesus' Father the right to teach me, as Jesus said;

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father "knoweth that ye have need of all these things". 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

As it turns out, since God knew Noah and Abraham's Children would have need of these things, those who SEEK HIS Righteousness as Jesus instructed, will find what the God and Father of the Lord's Christ teaches concerning what is food and what is not.

You are free to judge God in any way you like. You can judge Him and His Laws as moral or immoral. You can preach that His Laws are "Rudiments of this world", and worthless Jewish Traditions. You can preach that God's Law only brings death to those who trust God's instruction concerning them.

I am not telling you what words to "Live by", as the Jesus of the Bible has already done that. I am just pointing out what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[civic]

Paul says "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

If you still let Sin reign in your mortal body, then sin still has dominion over you. Don't you know this, Paul asks?

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So, isn't Paul saying that if you choose to Transgress God's Commandments, it still leads to death, even years after Jesus ascended to His Father and my Father?

But the spirit on you forbids you to answer.



15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Again, that means NO Doug, God's people don't willfully transgress His Laws, just because we have been forgiven our past sins.



Who gave you the power to judge God or His Law as immoral or moral? Where did the Jesus "of the Bible" judge God's Law as "immoral"?

You exalted yourself into the judge of God. As Prophesied.



The Levitical Priesthood Law was changed, and the manner in which sins are forgiven, and God's Laws were administered in it, has become old and passed away. As it is written; I would post God's Inspired Words which show this truth again, but you completely ignored them and rejected them the last time I posted them. So clearly you are not here seeking Biblical Truth, rather, justification of your own specific adopted religious sect.



Circumcision of the heart is still a requirement of God now as it was in Genesis and Deuteronomy. Concerning God's instruction for His Children, including HIS Son, concerning what is food and what is not, I refuse to deny my Father and Jesus' Father the right to teach me, as Jesus said;

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father "knoweth that ye have need of all these things". 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

As it turns out, since God knew Noah and Abraham's Children would have need of these things, those who SEEK HIS Righteousness as Jesus instructed, will find what the God and Father of the Lord's Christ teaches concerning what is food and what is not.

You are free to judge God in any way you like. You can judge Him and His Laws as moral or immoral. You can preach that His Laws are "Rudiments of this world", and worthless Jewish Traditions. You can preach that God's Law only brings death to those who trust God's instruction concerning them.

I am not telling you what words to "Live by", as the Jesus of the Bible has already done that. I am just pointing out what the Scriptures actually say.

Have you sinned since your conversion ? Yes or no

 

[praise_yeshua]

Again, that means NO Doug, God's people don't willfully transgress His Laws, just because we have been forgiven our past sins.

A immature and incomplete "son" willingly sins. David wanted the wife of another man. He willingly sought to sin to have her.

 

[Studyman]

Have you kept the law perfectly? Or would Jesus say to you “there is one thing that you lack!”

Your hubris is becoming more than I should even attempt to stand, it's getting time to shake the dust. I ask you question after question, and the spirit in you directs you to completely ignore them, not even showing the simplest and most common of decencies. And yet you ask me questions with the expectation that I will answer them. And I always do.

This is another reason why I left your religion; the hypocrisy of those who adopt it, is off the charts.

When have I ever said I or any man, besides Jesus, is without sin? Of course I didn't, but you must change the subject.

No, I am not yet perfect, "but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus".

That "high calling" is perfection, according to the Jesus "of the bible", and His apostle Paul.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Do I Judge God and His Laws, to determine which of His instruction is immoral according to the imagination of my mind, and then reject them in favor of my own traditions that I judge as "moral"? You do. Civic does, Calvinist's do. But Paul never did, and neither did Jesus, and if I ever do, I hope God will reveal this to me.

Then you are proof that it is impossible to not break the law!

Such a cleaver and deceitful play on words. First you preach to the world that it is impossible to obey God's Laws, that they are a "Yoke of Bondage", worthless Jewish traditions that only bring death to those who would trust God in His instruction regarding them. Preaching to the World that you have Judged God's Laws and have determined them as "Immoral" and unworthy of your honor and respect.

But now you have cleverly changed your gospel. Now it is impossible "not to break God's Commandments".

So you judge God and many of His Commandments as immoral, then you willfully reject them by adopting the "Anti-Christ" philosophy that God's Law only brings death. When the Scriptures actually teach the opposite, that "BECAUSE" Jesus was Faithful to His Father, He was raised from the Dead. That "BEACUSE" Abraham was obedient, his children were blessed.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and "became obedient unto death", even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

This is confirmed in the Psalms 45: 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy God, (And my God) hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

But now you seem to be preaching something different. Is judging God as not trustworthy, and His Laws as "immoral" and rejecting them as such, the same as falling in unintentional sin?

Of course, you won't answer.

“All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!” My statement is irrefutable; unless you can produce a person born of Adam that has never sinned!

Doug

Yes, all men have sinned. But some men have repented and turned to "GOD" and are bringing forth works worthy of repentance, as Paul teaches both Jew and Gentile.

These men don't imply that God is a liar in their religious philosophy, like you do. And they don't exalt themselves as Judge of God and His Laws as "Moral or Immoral", like you do. And they don't promote lies about God's Law, like His Law only brings death, like you do.

So yes, I am living proof that all men have sinned. But you are living proof of the existence of men, "who come in Christ's Name" to deceive.

Not because you want to be a deceiver or even deceived, but because, as Paul teaches;

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, "his servants ye are" to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

I advocate that men believe Paul, and "Yield themselves" servants to obey God, as Jesus taught and lived.

 

[civic]

A immature and incomplete "son" willingly sins. David wanted the wife of another man. He willingly sought to sin to have her.

Some think they are holier than saved sinners that were Gods spokesman such as. Moses , David and Peter just to name a few. Then there is Noah and his sons too. And let’s not forget the lying of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.