Humility And Calvinism?

Rockson

Well-known member
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

And we know why he saved them. He saved them because they had a contrite spirit or that they chose humility. Notice he didn't impart in them contrition and humility AND THEN he saved them. They chose to have humility towards God's word and salvation followed!

God can't put in one actual humility. God can humble his people BUT that IS NOT humility. Deuteronomy 8:3 says God humbled them, and suffered them to hunger, and fed them with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." However that didn't mean they had humility! They could still get offended in pride and complain and murmur to God and begin to worship other gods which they did most of the time and that certainly wasn't humility.

Calvinism says God saves those that he just chooses too. Good to know the way in which his choice is made....do they choose to walk in humility? Do they receive Jesus as their Lord and King and be glad that they've done so! James says that God resists the proud so if he resists them how can he saved them? Impossible! He does NOT put humility in them. He does not put humility in any one! In James 4:6 we read God resists the proud BUT...he gives his GRACE unto the ones that have humility. There's no indication there that God put anything in them relative to salvation at all! Why? Because they have pride. When Jesus was on the cross the two on each side of him....one chose humility and asked for God's mercy and Jesus said he'd be with him now in paradise....the other not. Lk 23:43 God is merely observing and watching what type of spirit the chose ,THEY CHOSE to have.

In Luke 18:19 we read, "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.(in other words he walked in pride) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."(he embraced humility) "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Notice NO INDICATION God imparted humility or pride in either. God merely observed and responded to whatever spirit THEY CHOSE to have. To actually say God puts humility in one which we would say would be a type of blessing is however to say God would do something he's already said he doesn't do! HE GIVE HIS GRACE....TO.....THE ONE WHO CHOOSES HUMILITY. Not to the ones which haven't. This would mean what Calvinists call their doctrines of Grace aren't actually in truth the doctrines of Grace for grace doesn't work in the way in which they think. That's not to say many Calvinists aren't saved but many things they think about GRACE need to be adjusted.
 
Yes humility, repentance and faith is our part. God saved those who humble themselves. repent of their sins and place their trust in the gospel message- the Person and work of Christ for their salvation. He saves us after we believe the gospel, repent of our sins and humble ourselves before Him. This is not a "work" to earn salvation but it is a broken/contrite heart over our sin that kept us from a relationship with our Savior. God does not believe or repent for us and will leave us in our sinful pride.

Commands are meaningless and actually a lie if we cannot obey them.
 
It's still trolling. If I started threads like, "The prideful nature of free-will" or "Prideful Free-Willers?" or "Humble Free-Willers?" or "The False Claims of a Loving Free Willer", that would be trolling. That's why I don't start threads like that.
 
It's still trolling. If I started threads like, "The prideful nature of free-will" or "Prideful Free-Willers?" or "Humble Free-Willers?" or "The False Claims of a Loving Free Willer", that would be trolling. That's why I don't start threads like that.
But you believe they are false right ?
 
Yes humility, repentance and faith is our part. God saved those who humble themselves. repent of their sins and place their trust in the gospel message- the Person and work of Christ for their salvation. He saves us after we believe the gospel, repent of our sins and humble ourselves before Him. This is not a "work" to earn salvation but it is a broken/contrite heart over our sin that kept us from a relationship with our Savior. God does not believe or repent for us and will leave us in our sinful pride.

Commands are meaningless and actually a lie if we cannot obey them.
Yeah. Calvinist have as their main plank God imparts irresistible grace which would have to mean imparting humility. That is not something which is possible to do. God can create circumstances in one's life whereby they might be inclined to humble themselves but there's no guarantee that they will. So again God can't impart actual humility. But one needs that to become saved.
 
It's still trolling. If I started threads like, "The prideful nature of free-will" or "Prideful Free-Willers?" or "Humble Free-Willers?" or "The False Claims of a Loving Free Willer", that would be trolling. That's why I don't start threads like that.
Really? Go for it. This is a self determining restriction.
 
Yeah. Calvinist have as their main plank God imparts irresistible grace which would have to mean imparting humility. That is not something which is possible to do. God can create circumstances in one's life whereby they might be inclined to humble themselves but there's no guarantee that they will. So again God can't impart actual humility. But one needs that to become saved.
Amen
 
Yeah. Calvinist have as their main plank God imparts irresistible grace which would have to mean imparting humility. That is not something which is possible to do. God can create circumstances in one's life whereby they might be inclined to humble themselves but there's no guarantee that they will. So again God can't impart actual humility. But one needs that to become saved.
And humility often comes from the lack of knowledge.
 
Trolling.
Perhaps you never even read my OP and just read the title? If you just read the three word title "Calvinism and Humility" I'll give you you might consider it not so nice of a thread.

If you read the OP though, IF YOU DID I can't see there's any way you can consider it a put down. I never said anywhere in the OP that Calvinists who are Christians don't have humility. The subject is does God impart humility or is it even possible for him to do so. Seeing men must have humility to even choose to embrace
 
God can't put in one actual humility. God can humble his people BUT that IS NOT humility. Deuteronomy 8:3 says God humbled them, and suffered them to hunger, and fed them with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." However that didn't mean they had humility!
This is like saying you were covered in white paint, but you aren’t white! God can’t humble someone and yet they are not humble.

Doug
 
This is like saying you were covered in white paint, but you aren’t white! God can’t humble someone and yet they are not humble.

Doug
I'd say Doug being humbled by circumstances means God is showing one they're not such a big shot that they thought they were. Such doesn't mean though that they'll respond in humility. He did this with Israel at times. Humbled them but they didn't always respond in humility. They would still rise up and rebel.
 
I'd say Doug being humbled by circumstances means God is showing one they're not such a big shot that they thought they were. Such doesn't mean though that they'll respond in humility. He did this with Israel at times. Humbled them but they didn't always respond in humility. They would still rise up and rebel.
I think there are several logical problems with this, but I will only say that one can be humbled, and then subsequently become arrogant again to the point of rebellion. Your logic seems to assume that once you are humbled that you stay humbled and can never rebel again.

My only objective in this is to strengthen your argument and remove any logical burr that might raise an opponent’s objection.


Doug
 
I think there are several logical problems with this, but I will only say that one can be humbled, and then subsequently become arrogant again to the point of rebellion.
I totally agree with you. One can be humbled by God.....which could mean difficult circumstances make them see they need God and in that difficult circumstance they choose to walk in humility. although they're not forced to but choose to......and some time later maybe days or years they can depart from humility and be proud again. We could look at the lives of Jonah, Paul, King Solomon any number of Bible stories where we can maybe see this.
Your logic seems to assume that once you are humbled that you stay humbled and can never rebel again.
No I don't believe that at all.
My only objective in this is to strengthen your argument and remove any logical burr that might raise an opponent’s objection.


Doug
If I'm not mistaken I do believe we're on the same page.
 
Yes humility, repentance and faith is our part. God saved those who humble themselves. repent of their sins and place their trust in the gospel message- the Person and work of Christ for their salvation. He saves us after we believe the gospel, repent of our sins and humble ourselves before Him. This is not a "work" to earn salvation but it is a broken/contrite heart over our sin that kept us from a relationship with our Savior. God does not believe or repent for us and will leave us in our sinful pride.

Commands are meaningless and actually a lie if we cannot obey them.
"it's not a work TO EARN salvation", LOL
 
Yes humility, repentance and faith is our part. God saved those who humble themselves. repent of their sins and place their trust in the gospel message- the Person and work of Christ for their salvation. He saves us after we believe the gospel, repent of our sins and humble ourselves before Him. This is not a "work" to earn salvation but it is a broken/contrite heart over our sin that kept us from a relationship with our Savior. God does not believe or repent for us and will leave us in our sinful pride.

Commands are meaningless and actually a lie if we cannot obey them.

I don't know anyone, Calvinist or otherwise, who claims God believes or repents for us. That's a straw man.

As for commands:

And this is the place, where I take occasion to enforce this my general reply: - that man, by the words of the law, is admonished and taught what he ought to do, not what he can do: that is, that he is brought to know his sin, but not to believe that he has any strength in himself. Wherefore, friend Erasmus, as often as you throw in my teeth the Words of the law, so often I throw in yours that of Paul, "By the law is the knowledge of sin," - not of the power of the will. Heap together, therefore, out of the large Concordances all the imperative words into one chaos, provided that, they be not words of the promise but of the requirement of the law only, and I will immediately declare, that by them is always shewn what men ought to do, not what they can do, or do do. And even common grammarians and every little school-boy in the street knows, that by verbs of the imperative mood, nothing else is signified than that which ought to be done, and that, what is done or can be done, is expressed by verbs of the indicative mood. Thus, therefore, it comes to pass, that you theologians, are so senseless and so many degrees below even school-boys, that when you have caught hold of one imperative verb you infer an indicative sense, as though what was commanded were immediately and even necessarily done, or possible to be done. But how many slips are there between the cup and the lip! So that, what you command to be done, and is therefore quite possible to be done, is yet never done at all. Such a difference is there, between verbs imperative and verbs indicative, even in the most common and easy things. Whereas you, in these things which are as far above those, as the heavens are above the earth, so quickly make indicatives out of imperatives, that the moment you hear the voice of him commanding, saying, "do," "keep," "choose," you will have, that it is immediately kept, done, chosen, or fulfilled, or, that our powers are able so to do.

Luther, Martin. The Bondage of the Will (Annotated) (pp. 65-66). Unknown. Kindle Edition.
 
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