How can there be so many different ways to get saved?

[Bob Carabbio]

How can there be so many different ways to get saved?​

There's only ONE WAY. a person is "Saved" (born again, becomes a Christian) by FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING that Jesus made on Calvary.

"Religion" creates confusion, and warring theologies.

The Bible, however presents the truth. Eph 2:8,9 is it in a nutshell -

8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Tools
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Normally the FIRST step is "Conviction of SIN" by the Holy Spirit - followed by REPENTANCE of your SIN, and calling out to God in FAITH for salvation. then everything changes, you're indwelled by the holy Spirit, and you can proceed to take HIS YOKE upon you , and learn of Him.

 

[SteveB]

It really bothers me that depending on what Christian Denomination you go to, the way you get saved is a little different. For some Churches it is just pray and ask Jesus into your heart. Other ones want you to do that and plus get baptized. Some think you are already chosen before the foundation of the world. Some think that getting baptized is what saves you.

I've been thinking about Arminianism, Calvinism, Universalism, some of the other various smaller isms. Eternal Security, Conditional Security, and Sinless Perfectionism. I get the feeling that all of these exist as away to try and deal with the fact that after a person starts associating him or herself, with Christianity. They realize that sin is still a problem. How do we explain why, what is done about it, and how does salvation work etc. But I think the bottom line is getting saved from sin.

Really my mind just spins in circles. You can't put God in a box. You can't explain how God works. People want certainty. I am no different... I wish I could go back to a simpler time. Ask Jesus into my heart and live a somewhat sinless life... The older I get, the more confused I become. In some ways I envy those that can sit around and argue these things. I can't. Cause I'm not smart enough, and I want to focus on the words in the Bible, and follow Jesus the best way I can.

I think all of this is scary. The very idea of that there are some people who believe they are saved, when in reality they didn't get things right.

Ok.

What does the Bible say about our receiving/obtaining/acquiring salvation?

I agree with you regarding the manifold ideas of different denominations, groups, etc.....


It's strikes me that as YHVH is inviting us to come live with him forever, he's the only one who can define what is needed to be saved, and made a new creation in Christ.

So, I'd like to ask....

What did Jesus say was required to enter God's Kingdom?

Next, what did Peter say was required to be saved in Acts?

Next, what does Paul say is required for salvation?

What does Peter say in his letters?

What did James say?

How about John, in his letters, and Revelation?


Each of them are followers of Jesus, and while the language is slightly different, they all say basically the same thing.

I encourage you to focus on what the Bible says, not what the rest of people, since the close of Scripture, in Revelation, tell us.

We're instructed in Hebrews 12:2 to focus on Jesus, who authored and who will finish our faith.


It's his show, not ours!

 

[Peterlag]

It really bothers me that depending on what Christian Denomination you go to, the way you get saved is a little different. For some Churches it is just pray and ask Jesus into your heart. Other ones want you to do that and plus get baptized. Some think you are already chosen before the foundation of the world. Some think that getting baptized is what saves you.

I've been thinking about Arminianism, Calvinism, Universalism, some of the other various smaller isms. Eternal Security, Conditional Security, and Sinless Perfectionism. I get the feeling that all of these exist as away to try and deal with the fact that after a person starts associating him or herself, with Christianity. They realize that sin is still a problem. How do we explain why, what is done about it, and how does salvation work etc. But I think the bottom line is getting saved from sin.

Really my mind just spins in circles. You can't put God in a box. You can't explain how God works. People want certainty. I am no different... I wish I could go back to a simpler time. Ask Jesus into my heart and live a somewhat sinless life... The older I get, the more confused I become. In some ways I envy those that can sit around and argue these things. I can't. Cause I'm not smart enough, and I want to focus on the words in the Bible, and follow Jesus the best way I can.

I think all of this is scary. The very idea of that there are some people who believe they are saved, when in reality they didn't get things right.

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[GodsGrace]

It really bothers me that depending on what Christian Denomination you go to, the way you get saved is a little different. For some Churches it is just pray and ask Jesus into your heart. Other ones want you to do that and plus get baptized. Some think you are already chosen before the foundation of the world. Some think that getting baptized is what saves you.

I've been thinking about Arminianism, Calvinism, Universalism, some of the other various smaller isms. Eternal Security, Conditional Security, and Sinless Perfectionism. I get the feeling that all of these exist as away to try and deal with the fact that after a person starts associating him or herself, with Christianity. They realize that sin is still a problem. How do we explain why, what is done about it, and how does salvation work etc. But I think the bottom line is getting saved from sin.

Really my mind just spins in circles. You can't put God in a box. You can't explain how God works. People want certainty. I am no different... I wish I could go back to a simpler time. Ask Jesus into my heart and live a somewhat sinless life... The older I get, the more confused I become. In some ways I envy those that can sit around and argue these things. I can't. Cause I'm not smart enough, and I want to focus on the words in the Bible, and follow Jesus the best way I can.

I think all of this is scary. The very idea of that there are some people who believe they are saved, when in reality they didn't get things right.

Are you still here Always?
I haven't gone through the thread and don't know what others are telling you.
Here's my 2 cents:
You're worrying needlessly.
You're doing all it takes to be with God eternally.
You know He exists.
You know you shouldn't sin and are probably trying not to but we all do.
And it sounds like you're sorry if you do.

That's about it.
Sound too easy?
That's all there is to it.

Anything else is for theology geeks that like to discuss.

Now,,,in the early church there was the problem of sin.
And I mean AFTER the last book of the New Testament.
In the HISTORY of the church.

I'll be happy to get into this if you wish...but it's purely for
discussion. You don't need anything else to be right with God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do not know if the OP is still around - but this question is the most profound of all in christian practice.


And most of you will NOT like the answer!

The OP hit the nail on the head. You can be certain that as you go to your "service" at your chosen church, that whatever your pastor preaches a specific biblical passage means, someone else in a congregation not far away - even in the same street - is preaching the passage means something else entirely. Often the result of these disagreements is a congregation will schism on the basis of differing opinions in which one group could not accept the conclusion of another. The problem is authority. Who decides disputes?

But there is only one truth. Only ONE way to be saved. So what went wrong?

"Sola scriptura" is what went wrong, empowering all to decide their own version of truth.
When they say "scripture disagrees" they mean THEIR OPINION of scripture disagrees.
But unless you have the right meaning for scripture, you do not have the word of God.

For instance - baptismal regeneration either is or is not true as the entry to the faith.. It cannot be optional or simultaneously true and untrue..
The eucharist either is or is not the real flesh of Jesus, and - if it is - it is necessary for eternal life. Jesus says so in John 6.
This matters to eternal life. Since it "is the flesh" of Jesus (quote justin), Paul tells us some have died profaning it! - regarding with other than total reverence is profaning it.

Some try to paper of the cracks by claiming that they all agree on "essentials" which is not true - the differences between groups are EVERY aspect of christian doctrine and profound in which groups believe complete opposites. Either once saved always saved is true or it is one of the worst corruptions of doctrine there ever was.

Alas the comment on "essentials" is further proof that sola scriptura fails. Because where in scripture does it tell you which parts are essential?
Where does scripture preach sola scriptura? It does not.

So how can we know what it true? Jesus says clearly that apostolic teaching is true.
He who hears them hears me.
That is the basis of our faith only those who are "SENT" have the true doctrine to hand down. (the actual meaning of tradition, greek word paradosis - to which Paul tells you to stay true) So the teachers are SENT.

And how can we know what the apostles taught? The meaning, not the words?

The answer is there is a massive amount of history to tell us.
The early church fathers taught by apostles tell us in copious writings what the early church was and what it believed.

Whilst it is true - the early fathers are not "inspired" , but when they all say EXACTLY the same you can be sure it is a true record of what the church was and what it believed.

So LONG BEFORE THERE WAS A NEW TESTAMENT, LONG BEFORE THE CREED, LONG BEFORE THE DOGMATIC STATEMENT OF THE TRINITY
The early church was a physical thing with a hierarchy.
We know from ignatius, iraneus and others that..
1/ There was a succession of bishops from the apostles that iraneus can identify to his time.
2/ Only that succession is the custodian of truth. Those who were "sent". Who handed down the faith "tradition" . the new testament came later.
3/ They all believed in baptismal regeneration. They practised infant baptism. The reformers do not have the power to change that.
4/ Those John taught state the eucharist IS a eucharsit of the "real flesh" valid only if presided by a bishop in succession. And it is necessary for salvation.
5/ they believed in the primacy of the bishop of Rome.
6/ Their bible was the septuagint - that is INCLUDING macabees and prayers for the dead (not the Jewish masoretic text). Jesus himslef quoted from the septuagint! Luther had no power to overturn GODS opinion of what scripture was!
7/ We even know from justin writing to the roman emperor marcus aurelius a few decades after christ (not least to dispel myths about cannibalism!) that the church met on sunday as a big group, with a service that comprised first readings then those not baptised must leave before the eucharist
So someone coming from the first decades would recognise the Catholic mass and eucharist. They would not recognise Not rock bands, grape juice , altar calls and a focal point of a sermon.
8/ That councils met with the power to bind and loose to decide points of doctrine which is why you took disputes to " the pillar and foundation of truth" . The church is a physical thing. It decided on such as "arianism" which is the origin of the creed.

All this really matters. The early fathers condemn those as not even christian who "confess not the eucharist to be the body and blood of our Lord"

And it believed all this from the beginning.
In short the early church was Catholic in form and belief.

It did not centre on a "jesus prayer" as entry to the faith for example - which is a modern day invention. As are "altar calls". The early church certainly was not calvinist, and did not believe in "once saved always saved".
It believed in baptismal regeneration, and a eucharist as the source and summit of the faith.

If you doubt any of this ask yourself a question.

If sola scriptura was valid. Why did none of the reformers even agree with each other? Zwingli, calvin and luther were poles apart.
Modern day lutherans do not agree with luther. Modern day calvinists donot agree with calvin!

You would be amazed if you knew what luther believed about mary!
And Why did the reformers mess with scripture? Who gave them the right?

Doctrine is a three legged stool. Scritpure . Tradition (the faith handed down by the succession). Authority (by councils weilding the power to bind and loose) resolves disputes.
Lose any of the legs and the stool falls over.

In short if you want the truth study what the apostolic faith was. Read the early church fathers.
They give you a clear picture of what the early church belieevd. Some learned from the apostles themselves.

Wow!
Mikepec.
Are you still here??
What a great post!
Kuddos to you....

 

[jeremiah1five]

Salvation is of the LORD (Jonah 2:9.)
Salvation is of the Jews. (Matt. 15.)
There is no formula for salvation, especially not Romans 10:9-10, as Saul wrote those words which are a quote of the Old Testament, and he was only giving encouragement to the Jewish Christian believers at Rome. It is not a formula to be saved as Saul was writing to a people ALREADY saved. No man can dictate to the Holy Spirit merely upon vocalizing belief to be baptized into the body of Christ. God not only does the baptizing according to the good pleasure of His will as to whether or not your name is written in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. So, if your name is in this "book" of life then at the appointed time God will send the Holy Spirit to do its redeeming work done by the Son.

One way of putting it...is you can't just walk into my house uninvited and begin to claim an inheritance or things in my house - definitely not my wife and I will protect any children I may have and prevent you from just walking in. But my door will be locked either way.
And no man can claim what belongs to God by merely claiming His possessions, and all His possessions Israel is the rightful heir through Christ.
One must be called - just like Lazarus - or you're not getting new life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It really bothers me that depending on what Christian Denomination you go to, the way you get saved is a little different. For some Churches it is just pray and ask Jesus into your heart. Other ones want you to do that and plus get baptized. Some think you are already chosen before the foundation of the world. Some think that getting baptized is what saves you.

I've been thinking about Arminianism, Calvinism, Universalism, some of the other various smaller isms. Eternal Security, Conditional Security, and Sinless Perfectionism. I get the feeling that all of these exist as away to try and deal with the fact that after a person starts associating him or herself, with Christianity. They realize that sin is still a problem. How do we explain why, what is done about it, and how does salvation work etc. But I think the bottom line is getting saved from sin.

Really my mind just spins in circles. You can't put God in a box. You can't explain how God works. People want certainty. I am no different... I wish I could go back to a simpler time. Ask Jesus into my heart and live a somewhat sinless life... The older I get, the more confused I become. In some ways I envy those that can sit around and argue these things. I can't. Cause I'm not smart enough, and I want to focus on the words in the Bible, and follow Jesus the best way I can.

I think all of this is scary. The very idea of that there are some people who believe they are saved, when in reality they didn't get things right.

Of course, there's ONLY ONE WAY to be cleansed of your sin, and that's BY FAITH (Romans 10:17 - not just belief) in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on Calvary. The Bible promises that God's HOLY SPIRIT bears witness with your spirit that you're a child of God. For me that's been true for the last 60 years.

None of that has anything to do with what "Denominational system" you become part of. PERSONALLY, I've been in the "Assembly of God" denomination for most of the last 60 years, since I find their "Theological System" to be Biblically acceptable for the most part, but the AG doesn't define me - it just provides a place in which to gather together with other Christians.

Everything else is just "Theology" which is like noses - everybody's got one. The brutal fact is that there are ANY NUMBER of "Religious" people who "Think" they're "saved", and don't really have a CLUE what FAITH is, or what it's all about.

Some denominations are more Biblically accurate and helpful as far as becoming Born Again by FAITH than others, but the CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THING is to read, and absorb the BIBLE - ignorance of which renders you FAIR GAME for deception. It's PROMISED that if you go to God seeking wisdom, He'll provides it liberally - IF you seek it singlemindedly. Jesus sent the HOLY SPIRIT to us to accomplish just that.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Are you still here Always?
I haven't gone through the thread and don't know what others are telling you.
Here's my 2 cents:
You're worrying needlessly.
You're doing all it takes to be with God eternally.
You know He exists.
You know you shouldn't sin and are probably trying not to but we all do.
And it sounds like you're sorry if you do.

That's about it.
Sound too easy?
That's all there is to it.

Anything else is for theology geeks that like to discuss.

Now,,,in the early church there was the problem of sin.
And I mean AFTER the last book of the New Testament.
In the HISTORY of the church.

I'll be happy to get into this if you wish...but it's purely for
discussion. You don't need anything else to be right with God.

Thanks for your post, beautiful in its simplicity.
I often refer my Forum members to the "soteriology of kids", so to speak.
For the example I will let aside kids under very challenging circumstances (eg those exposed to violence in their family and community).
I'll talk about the majority of kids that, despite difficulties, feel loved by their parents.

They don't worry about their personal salvation. God is good. God wants them to do good things. When they do bad things, they feel bad, and then come to the person they did bad to say I'm sorry and try to repair/restore things as best as possible. Since God is good, God forgives.
Their eschatology is that good things will end up happening to good people, and bad things to bad people. Who are the good people? The ones behaving well. The bad people is the one doing evil things.

It doesn't matter if we are talking about kids being raised in Catholic homes, Protestant homes, Muslim, Jew or Baha'i.
Some kids, like you, Godgrace, grow up keeping these basic notions, while deepening in their knowledge on why these things are like they are, and how these notions can be applied to more complex situations faced in adult life. Theology becomes a natural extension (more than a radical departure) of their original, elementary soteriology.

Sadly, some other kids, at some moment of their development into adults, learn that they should worry about the wrath of God, and about joining or staying the right church or adhering to the right creed so that they are saved from such wrath. They learn that it is OK for God to chastise all others with eternal torture. They also start making weird questions like "If am once saved, am I always saved?", and giving up to their reasoning in favor of a literal reading of the Scripture, in order to be always "on the safe side".

There is a kind of tragedy in the life of such kids: that having lived in peace, they became fearful.
Certainly, we all share some kind of tragedy in our development as adults. That's why Jesus asked us to become as children again.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for your post, beautiful in its simplicity.
I often refer my Forum members to the "soteriology of kids", so to speak.
For the example I will let aside kids under very challenging circumstances (eg those exposed to violence in their family and community).
I'll talk about the majority of kids that, despite difficulties, feel loved by their parents.

They don't worry about their personal salvation. God is good. God wants them to do good things. When they do bad things, they feel bad, and then come to the person they did bad to say I'm sorry and try to repair/restore things as best as possible. Since God is good, God forgives.
Their eschatology is that good things will end up happening to good people, and bad things to bad people. Who are the good people? The ones behaving well. The bad people is the one doing evil things.

It doesn't matter if we are talking about kids being raised in Catholic homes, Protestant homes, Muslim, Jew or Baha'i.
Some kids, like you, Godgrace, grow up keeping these basic notions, while deepening in their knowledge on why these things are like they are, and how these notions can be applied to more complex situations faced in adult life. Theology becomes a natural extension (more than a radical departure) of their original, elementary soteriology.

Sadly, some other kids, at some moment of their development into adults, learn that they should worry about the wrath of God, and about joining or staying the right church or adhering to the right creed so that they are saved from such wrath. They learn that it is OK for God to chastise all others with eternal torture. They also start making weird questions like "If am once saved, am I always saved?", and giving up to their reasoning in favor of a literal reading of the Scripture, in order to be always "on the safe side".

There is a kind of tragedy in the life of such kids: that having lived in peace, they became fearful.
Certainly, we all share some kind of tragedy in our development as adults. That's why Jesus asked us to become as children again.

I agree of course.
I do want to add that I repeat many times that we here on these forums could discuss soteriology for pages....
but it IS only discussion.
Whether or not I believe that a person can forfeit their salvation...has nothing to do with my salvation!

I do not believe in OSAS and am often told that I think I'm supposed to do a set amount of good works...or that I live my life
in fear, and other such nonsense.

NO. Scripture teaches that we can WALK AWAY from God...as long as we stay/abide in Jesus we will be safe.
It DOES seem really simple to me.
Doctrine will not save us.....
Loving God and man and obeying God is all we need to do.

And I don't mean a "feeling" of love.
I could get pretty upset at times...
but I think you know what I mean so I'll end here.