yes Calvinism is based on claims not found or supported by scripture
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Here's a puzzler
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
Duh that’s what the gospel is for try believing Jesus parables about that truth and start with the parable of the sower and the 4 soils.
Any more strawmen for me ?
hope this helps !!!
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Jesus clearly states he hides truth for some as otherwise they would repent and be forgiven
Mark 4:10–12 (ESV) — 10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that “ ‘they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.’ ”
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Mat 11:21-24 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe
Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 5:45–47 (KJV 1900) — 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 7:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done?
Miracles have power to bring about faith
civic
Well-known member
And down goes total inability down the drain call rotor rooter lol. Jesus clearly taught total ability hence He had to blind the calvinists false doctrines they teach about mans condition from birth.
When one listens and learns from the Father and Son they will reject the false teachings of Calvin. We see over and over again in the gospels where Jesus had to HIDE the truth from them, blind them, cause deafness to that seeing they may not see, hearing they may not hear so that their minds would not understand Him.
If they were already deaf, dumb, blind and dead then what Jesus did would be unnecessary.
This takes their false teaching about men are corpses/dead men walking and places it where it belongs in a sci-fi movie like the walking dead, zombie movies in HollyWeird. Since we know it's not found in the Bible anywhere.
And if total inability is false then Calvinism as a logical system collapses.And down goes total inability down the drain call rotor rooter lol. Jesus clearly taught total ability hence He had to blind the calvinists false doctrines they teach about mans condition from birth.
When one listens and learns from the Father and Son they will reject the false teachings of Calvin. We see over and over again in the gospels where Jesus had to HIDE the truth from them, blind them, cause deafness to that seeing they may not see, hearing they may not hear so that their minds would not understand Him.
If they were already deaf, dumb, blind and dead then what Jesus did would be unnecessary.
This takes their false teaching about men are corpses/dead men walking and places it where it belongs in a sci-fi movie like the walking dead, zombie movies in HollyWeird. Since we know it's not found in the Bible anywhere.
I would say grace is resistable until God decides otherwise.
Irresistible and grace, two words never conjoined together in scripture
Who said they were? Kind of like libertarian and free will right?
civic
Well-known member
We have seen this thread has been a total collapse for Calvin and his cohorts who bought into his false teachings
Calvinism that is who
BTW libertarian needed to be added because Calvinism redefined free will
QUOTE THEM
It needed to be added? Who said? LOL
Redefined it how? What is the correct Biblical definition?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If total inability is true, then they are without hope themselves.
If one could never know spiritual truth there is no way they could properly evaluate their religious experiences
civic
Well-known member
they can't even believe or receive the gospel until a zapping by god causes them to change their minds.
the gospel has zero power just the opposite of what Paul says in Romans 1:16- its the power which God saves by His grace which they also deny. They deny the gospel is Gods grace in salvation.
and we know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ- the gospel.
now there is the real "puzzler " the OP should be concerned about the the straw man presented.
It's a powerless gospel
civic
Well-known member
exactly
Rockson
Well-known member
To Calvinists it's just a certain type of knowledge where God goes back and tells them what has already happened to them. They leave the impression although they won't say the actual words but they'd like people to accept that there was no real need for the gospel to be preached. All the power work and LIFE imparting work had gone on before. Of course this doesn't line up with all the requirements to believe unto salvation which God has stated.
How should we evaluate are religious experiences?
You can't if your faculties are such you are unable to understand spiritual things
How do I come to understand Spiritual things?
