He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[brightfame52]

OK, you can disagree with the command that Peter said to the 3000 that asked what they should do for murdering Jesus and being accomplices in his murder… Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…. I will agree and you can disagree. I’m cool with that.

Those people Peter instructed in Acts 2:38 were already saved, regenerated, the Spirit had already given them a New Mind and Heart to become followers.

 

[brightfame52]

So you pick the second Peter and not the first Peter, correct?

Same Peter, in the Acts 5 narrative he informs where both repentance and forgiveness comes from. Where does it come from according to Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[civic]

In Matthew 16 he said he will future tense build his church. That means his church wasn’t built yet.

the church began at Pentecost.

 

[Anja]

Seeing as far as I know all here teach you should be water baptized your comments appear to be a falsehood

I'm all for baptism and I understand that it's a symbol that shows what happened when we accepted Christ. That's when our sins were washed away. Baptism is a way to acknowledge what's already happened but it is not the means of making it happen.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm all for baptism and I understand that it's a symbol that shows what happened when we accepted Christ. That's when our sins were washed away. Baptism is a way to acknowledge what's already happened but it is not the means of making it happen.

Actually Baptism is suppose to say that you were in union with Christ when He died, was buried and rose again. And thats true only if you believe in election, that you were in Him by Gods choice, and because of Him you are saved and walking in newness of life.

Rom 6:3-7

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

So one should already be a saved believer before baptism,

Acts 8:36-38

6 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Note:


1 Jn 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

The eunuch was a born again believer by profession before Philip would baptize him, so water baptism isnt a condition to get saved, its a public confession that you are saved by the work of the Son of God

 

[Anja]

Actually Baptism is suppose to say that you were in union with Christ when He died, was buried and rose again. And thats true only if you believe in election, that you were in Him by Gods choice, and because of Him you are saved and walking in newness of life.

Rom 6:3-7



So one should already be a saved believer before baptism,

Acts 8:36-38

6 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Note:


1 Jn 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

The eunuch was a born again believer by profession before Philip would baptize him, so water baptism isnt a condition to get saved, its a public confession that you are saved by the work of the Son of God

What do you mean by election. Are you talking about the elect like in Calvinism?

 

[TomL]

I'm all for baptism and I understand that it's a symbol that shows what happened when we accepted Christ. That's when our sins were washed away. Baptism is a way to acknowledge what's already happened but it is not the means of making it happen.

Amen

 

[TomL]

Yes, by all means do not get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Run the other way. Go in peace.

Been baptized and you are being disingenuous, assuming one refuses baptism if they do not believe it necessary for salvation

 

[TomL]

Since we are being edited, I want to give you what you want to hear. Go in peace. You do not have to obey Acts 2:38 Only the Jews have to. You as a gentile are free as a bird.
All you have to do is believe. Just a mustard seed of faith should remit your sins just fine.

Um i know you have been edited.

I also know you misrepresented my position and you indulged in rule breaking.

 

[Truther]

Those people Peter instructed in Acts 2:38 were already saved, regenerated, the Spirit had already given them a New Mind and Heart to become followers.

I see, Peter actually meant this...


38 Then Peter said unto them, UNNECESSARILY Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins EVEN THOUGH YOUR SINS ARE ALREADY REMITTED, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU ARE SAVED WITHOUT THE HOLY GHOST.


When he said this...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Truther]

Same Peter, in the Acts 5 narrative he informs where both repentance and forgiveness comes from. Where does it come from according to Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Compare it to the former Peter, here in chapter 2...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I wonder why he switched?

 

[Truther]

the church began at Pentecost.

Thank you!

Now, everyone look at Civic's post.

Now read Matt 16.

 

[Truther]

Been baptized and you are being disingenuous, assuming one refuses baptism if they do not believe it necessary for salvation

I would not have wasted my time being baptized if not in the name of Jesus if I were you.

It is best you keep Jesus out of your baptisms as much as possible.

It is upsetting to most of Christendom.

It is better to be happy than upset.

 

[Truther]

Um i know you have been edited.

I also know you misrepresented my position and you indulged in rule breaking.

I know, that is why I command you not to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Stay away from discussing it too.

It makes you hit the panic button.

I want you happy.

 

[brightfame52]

What do you mean by election. Are you talking about the elect like in Calvinism?

Yes, TULIP

 

[brightfame52]

I see, Peter actually meant this...


38 Then Peter said unto them, UNNECESSARILY Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins EVEN THOUGH YOUR SINS ARE ALREADY REMITTED, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU ARE SAVED WITHOUT THE HOLY GHOST.


When he said this...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

They were already saved, just the ethiopian guy and like Cornelius. Peter was instructing them to be baptized in view of, or because of forgiveness of sins

 

[TomL]

I know, that is why I command you not to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Stay away from discussing it too.

It makes you hit the panic button.

I want you happy.

You have no commanding power

and you cannot make me happy by misstating my beliefs or responding with ad hominem

 

[Ezra]

Yes, TULIP

Well I'm definitely not into that.

 

[brightfame52]

Compare it to the former Peter, here in chapter 2...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I wonder why he switched?

Its the same, the gift of the Holy Spirit promised wasn't regeneration. Just like when Cornelius received the Holy Spirit that wasnt regeneration. In fact on the day of Pentecost, the Spirit had been already poured out on many of the people before baptism,

Acts 2

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

They were pricked in their heart by the regenerating power of the Spirit !

 

[TomL]

@Rowan



I disagree, only Jesus Himself secured the salvation and believing in Himself for Salvation for all of His Sheep Church. Jesus Cross Work secured the believing in Him, thats what Jn 12:32 indicates, the drawing here as well as in Jn 6:44 is the drawing unto Faith. The word draw ἕλκω also denotes :

metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44

by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32.
Usage: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.
Persuade is faith, cause to believe,

God would persuade Japeth Gen 9 27

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

The word enlarge is persuade

Sorry atonement does not secure belief and it is nowhere stated in scripture