Gods Inability to save

[civic]

Nope. Does God have the power to destroy the universe if He so choose??

He does and that’s happening in the future with the new heavens and earth .

So God restrains His omnipotence meaning He does not have the power is use 24/7 like the other Omni’s.

So we need to rethink some of Gods attributes and what we have been taught

 

[Presby02]

He does and that’s happening in the future with the new heavens and earth .

So God restrains His omnipotence meaning He does not have the power is use 24/7 like the other Omni’s.

So we need to rethink some of Gods attributes and what we have been taught

No, I don't think so. I understand you must, but not I.

 

[Presby02]

He does and that’s happening in the future with the new heavens and earth .

So God restrains His omnipotence meaning He does not have the power is use 24/7 like the other Omni’s.

So we need to rethink some of Gods attributes and what we have been taught

But He could do it now no? Or does He restrain Himself? Or shows patience as the Bible puts it?

Why is restraining power, according to you, He does not have?

You need to because it's theologically necessary for you to do so. I'm fine with what has been taught by the church for 2000 years now.

 

[Donald]

Children of the devil are the seed of the serpent and have no choice but to do his will, his lust Jn 8:44

Did Eve Have Sex with Satan? The Serpent Seed View of Genesis 3:15​

Did Eve Have Sex with Satan? The Serpent Seed View of Genesis 3:15 - Christian Research Institute

This article first appeared in the Practical Hermeneutics column of the CHRISTIAN RESEARCH JOURNAL, volume 39, number 03 (2016). The full text of this article in PDF format can be obtained by clicking here. For further information about the CHRISTIAN RESEARCH JOURNAL, click here. “Here is what...

www.equip.org

 

[brightfame52]

Did Eve Have Sex with Satan? The Serpent Seed View of Genesis 3:15​

Did Eve Have Sex with Satan? The Serpent Seed View of Genesis 3:15 - Christian Research Institute

This article first appeared in the Practical Hermeneutics column of the CHRISTIAN RESEARCH JOURNAL, volume 39, number 03 (2016). The full text of this article in PDF format can be obtained by clicking here. For further information about the CHRISTIAN RESEARCH JOURNAL, click here. “Here is what...

www.equip.org

I dont believe Eve had sex with the devil. The serpent seed comes into the world the same way the children of God do naturally, by man and women coming together, the serpent seed cain was produced by the copulation of Adam and Eve Gen 4:1

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

But cain was of the wicked one 1 Jn 3 12

12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

 

[GodsGrace]

You assume your understanding of your proof text. I can answer easily. God saves all He intends to save. All those He has given to the Son. All those He draws that will be raised on the last day.

But Paul says that God desires that ALL men be saved.

So is Paul lying?
God does Not desire that all men be saved?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


So maybe we shouldn't trust what Paul wrote in the NT?
Or maybe God is Not sovereign?

There's a big discrepancy here that needs to be resolved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Children of the devil are the seed of the serpent and have no choice but to do his will, his lust Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

They will do his lust Jesus said, they are not redeemable. The children of God are who Jesus died to redeem Jn 11:50-52

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Jesus died to save the children of God who fell in Adam

You've finally gone off the edge BF.

Really.

Even ForHisGlory changed her mind about this quite a number of years ago.

You should rethink this.
It's really beyond.

 

[Kampioen]

I didn't dodge your question. God gave us libertarian free will. There. It's not dodged.

He did? Chapter and verse

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[TedT]

Wasn't it God to begin with that decreed that Adam should fall?

Absolutely NOT!!!

Every person created in HIS image was created with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to CHOOSE by faith ie, without proof, so, when HE proclaimed HIS divinity and HIS gospel, Col 1:23 to every person created in HIS image, we could either accept HIS proclamation as the truth or to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god.

Those who put their faith in HIM as their LORD and Saviour would be chosen to be saved from the consequences of ever falling into sin, without being condemned for their sins, Jn 3:18, while those who never put their faith in HIM as LORD and Saviour would be condemned on the spot before they were flung to the earth, Rev 12:4-9, and also in Jn 3:18.

GOD never decreed that anyone would sin; sin only accrues to the person who by a free will decision chooses to rebel against GOD's word or GOD HIMself.

GOD proclaimed the truth with the promise that those who believed HIM would become HIS elect while those who rebuked HIS truth as a lie would become reprobate, eternally enslaved to sin so fit only to be banished to the outer darkness.

 

[Presby02]

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Umm....where is libertarian free will in the text?

What you should do is not necessarily what you can do.

 

[Presby02]

But Paul says that God desires that ALL men be saved.

So is Paul lying?
God does Not desire that all men be saved?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


So maybe we shouldn't trust what Paul wrote in the NT?
Or maybe God is Not sovereign?

There's a big discrepancy here that needs to be resolved.

You assume your understanding of the word "all".

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely NOT!!!

Every person created in HIS image was created with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to CHOOSE by faith ie, without proof, so, when HE proclaimed HIS divinity and HIS gospel, Col 1:23 to every person created in HIS image, we could either accept HIS proclamation as the truth or to rebuke HIM as a liar and therefore a false god.

Those who put their faith in HIM as their LORD and Saviour would be chosen to be saved from the consequences of ever falling into sin, without being condemned for their sins, Jn 3:18, while those who never put their faith in HIM as LORD and Saviour would be condemned on the spot before they were flung to the earth, Rev 12:4-9, and also in Jn 3:18.

GOD never decreed that anyone would sin; sin only accrues to the person who by a free will decision chooses to rebel against GOD's word or GOD HIMself.

GOD proclaimed the truth with the promise that those who believed HIM would become HIS elect while those who rebuked HIS truth as a lie would become reprobate, eternally enslaved to sin so fit only to be banished to the outer darkness.

Of course Ted.
Well said.


Unfortunately, not all believe the simple truth you've posted above.

 

[GodsGrace]

Umm....where is libertarian free will in the text?

What you should do is not necessarily what you can do.

Presby....
If you're given a choice...
does that mean you are not free to choose?

Why would God give a choice to a person that does not have the ability to choose?

Is God just playing sadistic games with us?

And what does CAN DO have to do with anything?

We're discussing biblical free will, not philosophical free will.
I think I've said this before to you.


Here's a request for you:
Please explain what libertarian free will is.

 

[GodsGrace]

You assume your understanding of the word "all".

The verse says that good desires that ALL men be saved.

Do you mean that Paul was not able to explain himself properly?
Why would he use a word he didn't mean?

1 Timothy 2:4
God desires that ALL men be saved.


That sounds like a God of LOVE,,,as John describes in 1 John 4:8 (GOD IS LOVE).

Do you believe God has hate in Him and so He does NOT desire that all men be saved?

 

[Presby02]

Presby....
If you're given a choice...
does that mean you are not free to choose?

Why would God give a choice to a person that does not have the ability to choose?

Is God just playing sadistic games with us?

And what does CAN DO have to do with anything?

We're discussing biblical free will, not philosophical free will.
I think I've said this before to you.


Here's a request for you:
Please explain what libertarian free will is.

Free to choose does not imply ability.

To show you cannot do something and your need for assistance.

Biblical free will is a philosophical position. NOWHERE does the Bible specifically say your will is free.


It's simply the belief that your choices are not causally determined by prior events including ones own nature or desires. Do you agree with this definition?

 

[Presby02]

The verse says that good desires that ALL men be saved.

Do you mean that Paul was not able to explain himself properly?
Why would he use a word he didn't mean?

1 Timothy 2:4
God desires that ALL men be saved.


That sounds like a God of LOVE,,,as John describes in 1 John 4:8 (GOD IS LOVE).

Do you believe God has hate in Him and so He does NOT desire that all men be saved?

Who is all?

 

[GodsGrace]

Free to choose does not imply ability.

To show you cannot do something and your need for assistance.

Biblical free will is a philosophical position. NOWHERE does the Bible specifically say your will is free.


It's simply the belief that your choices are not causally determined by prior events including ones own nature or desires. Do you agree with this definition?

No.
I do not agree.

The following is the definition of biblical free will...
which is also the definition of libertarian free will:

The ability to choose between two moral alternatives
without outside coercion.

Simple isn't it?


All decisions are affected by prior events or our desires.....
that is not libertarian free will.


Doing what we desire most at the time is compatibilist free will.
Which is an oxymoron, of course.
In compatibilism there is no free will.
And, if Calvinism is properly understood...
God CAUSES you to desire what you want at the moment.
So, NO free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who is all?

I'd say that ALL means ALL.

Just as when Jesus said: I will draw ALL men to Myself. John 12:32

The NT does not use poetic language as does the OT.

When Paul or John state something...
they mean what they are posting.

God desires all men to be saved.
But they are not.

Still no reply as to WHY....

Maybe the reply would make you rethink Calvinism?
Maybe the reply is just not acceptable to you.

But you could try again!

 

[Presby02]

No.
I do not agree.

The following is the definition of biblical free will...
which is also the definition of libertarian free will:

The ability to choose between two moral alternatives
without outside coercion.

Simple isn't it?


All decisions are affected by prior events or our desires.....
that is not libertarian free will.


Doing what we desire most at the time is compatibilist free will.
Which is an oxymoron, of course.
In compatibilism there is no free will.
And, if Calvinism is properly understood...
God CAUSES you to desire what you want at the moment.
So, NO free will.

Is the law of the state moral coercion?

Then your not a libertarian free killer.

Wrong. As usual. I, as a Calvinist, believe in free will. A choice can be both free and yet determined.

 

[TedT]

Why would God give a choice to a person that does not have the ability to choose?

To prove to those who do have the ability to choose ;that the reprobate cannot be saved because their sinfulness can't be broken sin they cannot choose to save themselves and they have rejected YHWH as their Lord and Saviour making their sinfulness to be eternal.

We are to come out from among them and touch not their idolatrous ways....which we will never do as long as we think they just might change after all...