You are skirting the issue.
The issue is does God work in time and sequence or is he static and timeless in what he does
Yes there is time in heaven but no evidence you age
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
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The issue is does God work in time and sequence or is he static and timeless in what he does
Yes there is time in heaven but no evidence you age
Again the issue is not does God change in his character or essense but does God experience change in accidental or non essentials or in his acts
You are avoiding the issue as no one argues God changes in his character or essence
Reality change all the time. Things that were not true previously can become true and things which were true before may become false.
Reality is dynamic
Doug
That begs the question. You have to begin with the assumption time was created
On the other hand all change is considered as involving time
Going from non creation to creation involves sequential action and a past
Who was God sovereign over before creation?
God in his essence or character never changes, but he experiences change in his relations or accidental properties
He went from not being a creator to being a creator
Cambridge changes refer to a specific type of change in an individual’s properties or characteristics, where a predicate (a statement or description) that was true of them at one point in time becomes false at a later point in time, not due to any change in their intrinsic properties, but rather due to a change in the extrinsic or relational properties.
The Simplicity of God in the classic theory denies God can have these
But that is not what anyone argues, so you are simply avoiding the point.
God acted in sequence bringing about change and went from not being a creator to being a creator
Um the first event went from non creation to creation that was change in itself, and thus involves time as commonly held
No not in presentism
That would be an assumption nowhere stated in the bible
Did God not act in sequence in creation and was not the creation a past act and a change
Yes I affirm omniscience
Can you deal with the fact God was free to create or not create
As a result the future was open at that time.
And it's your fatalism that is the heresy.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sure on a great many things. I think our spirits capture some aspects of it when you think of a parent/offspring relationship like the story of the Prodigal Son. The Father's heart loved his offspring with unconditional love. God the Father and human Fathers (and mothers) share the same longing and love towards their kids.
I think you could for it would be based on how overwhelming the evidence would be for me to be so certain of something.
I'm not sure that really reflects though your position in these matters. After all you don't believe in determination correct? So wouldn't it be safe to say it would be and is relevant to your thinking?
TibiasDad
Well-known member
It is not an assumption, it is a logical inference. If there is a before creation state, and then a creation state, a before and after scenario now exists. The space created between these two states of being is time. If there is only one state of being, there can be no time.
Technically, it is a before and after, but this necessitates “change”; but I rather think change is the descriptor of the state rather than a substance in itself. But this is neither here nor there in the long run.
Which is why it logically indicates the beginning of time as we know it.
Sovereignty simply means that there is no other power greater. It is a relational designation only if there is another source of power to which it can be compared.
But even in the absence of another power source, he is still objectively the greatest power, and thus is sovereign.
A God who is truly one, means that there is no variation within the members of the whole. Omniscience necessitates that all knowledge is always known.
I cannot explain this reality, for God is not a man, and his capacities are beyond full human comprehension. This is not an appeal to mystery, but an acknowledgement that God is necessarily beyond my comprehension .
Which is the first act outside of himself. All other “acts” prior to creation were internal and thus simultaneous for all involved. There is no before and after to the members of the Godhead.
Doug
Inference is another word for assumption. The bible never states God is timeless, static and non sequential.
Regarding your argument, a timeless God can have no before or after state.
that indicates sequence and change and thus indicates time as most believe
I disagree. Without creation there was nothing to be sovereign over. Sovereignty would then be an accidental attribute
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I agree.
But why does the same evidence not convince some?
Let me recapitulate: That God declares that X will happen in the future, necessitates that he is certain regarding that fact.
This is not about how he knows that X will happen in the future, but that he is certain about its future reality to us. The means of X happening is not relevant to the fact that he is certain about it.
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Any dictionary will disagree with you: an inference is a logical deduction drawn from a premise or information previously established as true.
Assumption is a conclusion without supporting evidence as to its validity.
1) You can’t make a positive argument from a negative.
2) You cannot make an argument from a lack of information.
3) God’s very name, I am what I am indicates a static nature of being.
4) In and of himself, God, as the unity of the Trinity, simply is! There is no need of interaction, for they simply know. We cannot describe this union with our abilities, words, or comprehension.
Doug
civic
Well-known member
Well of course since there is time.
I have demonstrated time exists in heaven bit of course your presuppositions will deny the biblical truth I have shown about heaven. I have provided several passages in heaven that prove you are wrong and your continual skeptical questions do not change the facts.
hope this helps !!!
Do you age in heaven?
civic
Well-known member
I’m not there
Is Jesus the man 33 years old right now ?
Oops
Next
hope this helps !!!
So you do age in heaven? Yet you remain the same?Well of course since there is time.
I have demonstrated time exists in heaven bit of course your presuppositions will deny the biblical truth I have shown about heaven. I have provided several passages in heaven that prove you are wrong and your continual skeptical questions do not change the facts.
hope this helps !!!
Notice the Bible says there will be no more Sun, Moon or stars which is how we tell time no?
Another questioning Fred by the dodger. You age in heaven yet you remain the sane? Yes or noI’m not there
Is Jesus the man 33 years old right now ?
Oops
Next
hope this helps !!!
