Um if time is an attribute of God it is an error to speak of it as starting.
How does one go from no creation to creation without change and sequence?
God requires man to HUMBLE THEMSELVES
- Thread starter civic
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How does one go from no creation to creation without change and sequence?
Who said it was a attribute of God? Logically there must have been a initial action to have a reaction.
God can create without any change. Creation is the beginning of time. The first act in the sequence of events in time.
Sorry going to creation from nothing is an obvious change
There is common agreement if change exists time exists
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As Long as God exists time exists
Presentism holds the future does not yet exist as reality and is therefore just possibilities.
Scripture speaks of God's plans and thoughts.
And what he knows in your theology is only that which he determined
civic
Well-known member
Yes I noticed how your response was twisted
It's actually the creation of time. No change in the essence or character of God.
So if He is planning something is unknown.
Tom is a Open Theist. Why not just come out of the closet. Embrace your heresy.
Question begging.
I would say the bible is clear God acts in time and has changing relations in time
We can only know what God is like by what he states in his word and the bible never posits God is timeless
Now consider time as an attribute of the living God
would you also state God is ruled by his other attributes?
Can you deal with the fact the bible pictures God as having plans and thoughts
The heresy would be your fatalism
Um timelessness would be question begging as scripture never speaks of it
God acting in sequence and time
Genesis 1:3–2:2 (KJV 1900) — 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I would say that the future is not real/existent to us, but it is certain in God’s mind, and that which is certain to God is real to God.
We believe, by faith, that it is certain, and thus live as if it is real because God thinks it certain because he has declared it to be certain. Does God exist where he is certain? Our lack of realization of things does not mean it is not real.
Doug
Can you deal with the fact God is omniscient? And that Open Theism is heresy?
Acts in time but exists outside of time.
Time is not a attribute of God. It's part of the created order.
civic
Well-known member
You don’t understand Gods nature and character which shows in your theology
You fail to show that
Creation was a change
and it is generally agreed if change exist then there is time
