DavidTree
Well-known member
Good questions - ty
i am out the door right now but when i get back i will gladly point to the Scriptures for us.
God Has Made No Covenant With Gentiles
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
i am out the door right now but when i get back i will gladly point to the Scriptures for us.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Based upon your comment I can see you have been so very heavily ingrained with a Gentile mindset of understanding the Scripture by 1900 years of the Times of the Gentiles. Those that rejected Israel's Messiah were Israel's religious leaders in Jerusalem, and not all the Sanhedrin were against Jesus either. And that's not counting the tens of thousands of Jews living in other parts of Israel and in Gentile lands that never returned to their homeland when Cyrus gave the OK to do so. I won't even get into percentages because those that rejected Messiah would be miniscule.
You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Church ("called out [ones]") was founded and populated by 3000 Jews who were the first to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise (to Israel as per covenant), and the Church Jesus said He was to build is aa continuation of the Great Congregation of H3ebrews in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle God delivered from Egypt. Over 3 million Jews were delivered and held church in the desert.
The Advent of the Holy Spirit was the inauguration of the New Covenant and Jews kicked it off. They were the ones the Promises of God were given to, not Gentiles. God made no covenant with Gentiles.
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:4–5.
Nowhere in Scripture is there any passage or Scripture saying these things "pertaineth" to Gentiles. None. The reason being that God made no covenant with Gentiles. None. The Bride is Israel. The Church is Israel. As it says above everything is given to Israel.
God is saving Gentiles without a covenant.
The New Covenant began with the Advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise, Peter says, and the Promise was made to Israel.
3000 Jews were saved and for 4 decades until the destruction of their Temple everything about the New Covenant was Jewish.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I hope you keep it biblical.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Scriptures = Biblical
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
DavidTree
Well-known member
It is BEST to address one point at a time = let us start with God's Olive Tree
Romans chapter 11 and Acts confirms that there is One Olive Tree for the Jew and for the Gentile.
I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you/Gentiles, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The New Covenant Scriptures are only Jewish Christians discussing the New Covenant. Show me in the Hebrew Scriptures the precedent that Gentiles are the Olive tree.
And the thing about the New Covenant Scripture such as Saul's letter to Jewish Christians at Rome, if Saul says anything contrary to the Hebrew Scriptures such as hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles are the Olive tree, then he would be in error and not saying the same thing as God. But I believe he is not teaching something contrary to the Hebrew writings, it's only 'our' understanding of what Jeremiah originally said that is in error.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
@DavidTree
Through the prophet Jeremiah God called Israel a green olive tree which has broken branches.
16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. Jeremiah 11:16.
The broken branches represent unbelieving Israel.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, Rom. 11:20.
The wild olive tree branches that are grafted into Israel are Gentile proselytes.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.
Notice this does not say that members of the body of Christ are grafted into Israel.
Saul was addressing Gentiles who are the wild olive tree, but he was not addressing members of the body of Christ in these passages because there are no Gentiles in the body of Christ. The context of Romans 11 is the flesh, not the spirit. Writing to Jewish Christians and addressing the Gentiles Saul referenced his family, the Israelites, as “them which are my flesh.”
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom. 11:14.
Jew and Gentile are terms of the flesh. They have to do with circumcision and uncircumcision in the flesh, and flesh is not spirit. The Church, the body of Christ in one new man which is spirit and is therefore not the subject matter of flesh.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13.
In this body Saul says, as he takes away all attributes of the flesh:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28.
Of course, we are all living in bodies of flesh, and either a Jew or Gentile can believe Saul’s gospel, which is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and become a member of the body of Christ, however, circumcised Jew or uncircumcised Gentile is not in His spiritual body.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph. 2:18.
In the body of Christ we are not called “Jew” or “Gentile,” we are called “members.”
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 1 Cor. 12:27.
Saul stressed we know no man “after the flesh,” Jew or Gentile.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: 2 Cor. 5:16a.
In Christ, we lose the old fleshly titles of Jew and Gentile as they are then ‘passed away’ after salvation and we are then new creatures.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.
We, the body of Christ have no relation to Israel which is a nation in the flesh analogous to an olive tree in Romans 11. The body of Christ is not analogous to a tree, nor does a body have branches. To state the obvious trees are rooted in the earth, and Israel was promised to inherit the earth and dwell in it forever, because Israel is a branch which God has planted in the earth which took root downward, and we can see this in some of the writings of the prophets.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Ezekiel 37:25.
Do you notice terminology of plants or trees?
6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root:
Israel shall blossom and bud,
And fill the face of the world with fruit. Isaiah 27:6.
So, Israel inherits the earth, but members of the body of Christ are promised new bodies that are eternal in the heavens.
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Cor. 5:1.
So, there is a big difference between Israel and the body of Christ. Israel inherits the earth eternally; the body of Christ are eternal in the heavens. Conversion did not make them Jews, but they were then to partake in the root and fatness of Israel’s tree and get their blessings.
13 Those that be planted in the house of the Lord
Shall flourish in the courts of our God.
14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age;
They shall be fat and flourishing; Psalm 92:13–14.
Before Saul was saved in Acts 9 (ca. A.D. 37) salvation was exclusively of the Jews, as Jesus said in John:
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John. 4:22.
A Gentile had to convert to Judaism to be saved. Israel is likened to a natural olive tree planted in the earth, and Gentiles are likened to a wild olive tree which then can be grafted into them. Proselytes are the wild olive branches. Through faith, circumcision, religious works, they were grafted into Israel’s conditional salvific program which is a tree God prunes if it does not bear good fruit.
Question: Who heard Peter preach Christ?
Answer: Jews and proselytes.
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Acts 2:10.
How many of them believed Peter and were Spirit (and water) baptized that day?
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41.
Which Church did the Ethiopian eunuch belong to after he believed Philip and was water baptized in Acts 8?
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Acts 8:27–28.
The Ethiopian eunuch was on his way home from Jerusalem and it says he was there for worship because he was a proselyte. The Ethiopian eunuch wasn’t reading Saul, he was reading Isaiah. So, Philip certainly was not preaching the grace of God given exclusively to Saul for the building of the body of Christ. The Ethiopian proselyte joined the little flock of believing Israel Christ built upon Peter.
And what about Cornelius, an Italian, who with his whole house heard Peter preach and received the Holy Ghost.
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:1–2.
This was a proselyte. Everyone outside of this was a heathen. Which Church are these Gentiles in? Certainly not the body of Christ. This is Peter preaching. They’re in a little flock of Israel. These are examples of proselytes. Gentiles believing in a future salvation through Israel. But members of the body of Christ are already saved and not though Israel. They are saved by faith alone in Saul’s gospel (1 Cor. 15:1–4.)
Proselytes are in Israel’s program. Members of the body of Christ have nothing to with Israel nor of Abraham, and there are no proselytes in the body of Christ. Read carefully to the doctrine, to these grafted wild olive branches.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom. 11:20–22.
This is the very same conditional salvation God had warned Israel with since they came out of Egypt. There’s no peace with God in this doctrine. Only fear. This runs contradictory to how Saul addressed members of the body of Christ as being ‘sealed’ unto the day of redemption without the spirit of bondage to fear, but in the bond of peace.
For ye have NOT received the spirit of bondage again to FEAR; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom. 8:15.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph. 1:12–13.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom. 5:1.
Body members are NOT grafted into Israel. Proselytes were in time past.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Eph. 1:3.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH [Jew and Gentile], but AFTER THE SPIRIT [Body of Christ].
Rom. 8:1.
The spiritual body of Christ is not grafted into the natural olive tree, which is Israel. Gentile proselytes are.
Through the prophet Jeremiah God called Israel a green olive tree which has broken branches.
16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. Jeremiah 11:16.
The broken branches represent unbelieving Israel.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, Rom. 11:20.
The wild olive tree branches that are grafted into Israel are Gentile proselytes.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.
Notice this does not say that members of the body of Christ are grafted into Israel.
Saul was addressing Gentiles who are the wild olive tree, but he was not addressing members of the body of Christ in these passages because there are no Gentiles in the body of Christ. The context of Romans 11 is the flesh, not the spirit. Writing to Jewish Christians and addressing the Gentiles Saul referenced his family, the Israelites, as “them which are my flesh.”
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom. 11:14.
Jew and Gentile are terms of the flesh. They have to do with circumcision and uncircumcision in the flesh, and flesh is not spirit. The Church, the body of Christ in one new man which is spirit and is therefore not the subject matter of flesh.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13.
In this body Saul says, as he takes away all attributes of the flesh:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28.
Of course, we are all living in bodies of flesh, and either a Jew or Gentile can believe Saul’s gospel, which is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and become a member of the body of Christ, however, circumcised Jew or uncircumcised Gentile is not in His spiritual body.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph. 2:18.
In the body of Christ we are not called “Jew” or “Gentile,” we are called “members.”
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 1 Cor. 12:27.
Saul stressed we know no man “after the flesh,” Jew or Gentile.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: 2 Cor. 5:16a.
In Christ, we lose the old fleshly titles of Jew and Gentile as they are then ‘passed away’ after salvation and we are then new creatures.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.
We, the body of Christ have no relation to Israel which is a nation in the flesh analogous to an olive tree in Romans 11. The body of Christ is not analogous to a tree, nor does a body have branches. To state the obvious trees are rooted in the earth, and Israel was promised to inherit the earth and dwell in it forever, because Israel is a branch which God has planted in the earth which took root downward, and we can see this in some of the writings of the prophets.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Ezekiel 37:25.
Do you notice terminology of plants or trees?
6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root:
Israel shall blossom and bud,
And fill the face of the world with fruit. Isaiah 27:6.
So, Israel inherits the earth, but members of the body of Christ are promised new bodies that are eternal in the heavens.
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Cor. 5:1.
So, there is a big difference between Israel and the body of Christ. Israel inherits the earth eternally; the body of Christ are eternal in the heavens. Conversion did not make them Jews, but they were then to partake in the root and fatness of Israel’s tree and get their blessings.
13 Those that be planted in the house of the Lord
Shall flourish in the courts of our God.
14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age;
They shall be fat and flourishing; Psalm 92:13–14.
Before Saul was saved in Acts 9 (ca. A.D. 37) salvation was exclusively of the Jews, as Jesus said in John:
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John. 4:22.
A Gentile had to convert to Judaism to be saved. Israel is likened to a natural olive tree planted in the earth, and Gentiles are likened to a wild olive tree which then can be grafted into them. Proselytes are the wild olive branches. Through faith, circumcision, religious works, they were grafted into Israel’s conditional salvific program which is a tree God prunes if it does not bear good fruit.
Question: Who heard Peter preach Christ?
Answer: Jews and proselytes.
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Acts 2:10.
How many of them believed Peter and were Spirit (and water) baptized that day?
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41.
Which Church did the Ethiopian eunuch belong to after he believed Philip and was water baptized in Acts 8?
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Acts 8:27–28.
The Ethiopian eunuch was on his way home from Jerusalem and it says he was there for worship because he was a proselyte. The Ethiopian eunuch wasn’t reading Saul, he was reading Isaiah. So, Philip certainly was not preaching the grace of God given exclusively to Saul for the building of the body of Christ. The Ethiopian proselyte joined the little flock of believing Israel Christ built upon Peter.
And what about Cornelius, an Italian, who with his whole house heard Peter preach and received the Holy Ghost.
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:1–2.
This was a proselyte. Everyone outside of this was a heathen. Which Church are these Gentiles in? Certainly not the body of Christ. This is Peter preaching. They’re in a little flock of Israel. These are examples of proselytes. Gentiles believing in a future salvation through Israel. But members of the body of Christ are already saved and not though Israel. They are saved by faith alone in Saul’s gospel (1 Cor. 15:1–4.)
Proselytes are in Israel’s program. Members of the body of Christ have nothing to with Israel nor of Abraham, and there are no proselytes in the body of Christ. Read carefully to the doctrine, to these grafted wild olive branches.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom. 11:20–22.
This is the very same conditional salvation God had warned Israel with since they came out of Egypt. There’s no peace with God in this doctrine. Only fear. This runs contradictory to how Saul addressed members of the body of Christ as being ‘sealed’ unto the day of redemption without the spirit of bondage to fear, but in the bond of peace.
For ye have NOT received the spirit of bondage again to FEAR; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom. 8:15.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph. 1:12–13.
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom. 5:1.
Body members are NOT grafted into Israel. Proselytes were in time past.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Eph. 1:3.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH [Jew and Gentile], but AFTER THE SPIRIT [Body of Christ].
Rom. 8:1.
The spiritual body of Christ is not grafted into the natural olive tree, which is Israel. Gentile proselytes are.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Paul's Letters are written for and to BOTH the Jew and the Gentile = One Body and One Tree
DavidTree
Well-known member
False (witness)Statement = "The spiritual body of Christ is not grafted into the natural olive tree, which is Israel."
There are two Israels = one according to the flesh and the True Israel according to the Spirit = Gospel, Acts, Ephesians, Galatians, Romans and Revelation
Romans chapters 9 -11 = "They are not all Israel who are of Israel"
Galatians = "Gentiles become Sons and Heirs WITH Abraham according to the Promise"
Ephesians ch2 -
Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
ALL the New Covenant writings by Jewish Christians Saul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, etc., are written to Jewish Christians. It's a Jewish covenant with a Jewish Messiah. God spends 4000 developing His covenants with Abraham, the children of Israel with Moses, the House of Israel in Jeremiah, and His first words in the New Covenant era is to hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles???
Stop looking at the Jewish Scriptures with a Gentile mindset. Believe me, there will come a day when the Times of the Gentiles will end and God turns His full attention back to Israel and will fulfill promises, covenants, prophecies He's made with Israel and Gentiles will be left in the dust wondering "Where are you, God?!"
God began the Times of the Gentiles with the destruction of the Jewish Temple. When God ends the Times of the Gentiles it will come with the destruction of the Gentile nations. And when Gentile Christians realize the truth that God used them to make His true Church and Bride jealous, they will not like it and turn against Israel. In Zechariah God says He's bringing ALL NATIONS against Israel and that will include Gentile Christians. Look at how today Gentile Christians are supporting Hamas against the Lord's people.
And it's only the beginning. ALL SCRIPTURE God is speaking to Israel. There is no letter (besides the personal letter to Timothy) in which gospel or epistle or Revelation where God is addressing Gentiles. So, get your doctrine in order. Salvation is OF THE JEWS.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Yeah, keep reading the Jewish Scriptures like a Gentile.
DavidTree
Well-known member
On the contrary my Friend in Christ, i SEE the Scriptures from Above.
Therefore i SEE the Jewish people and the Gentiles that God has concluded ALL UNDER SIN = No difference = sin separates everyone from God
Therefore i SEE the purposes of God in creating the Jews by which MESSIAH came into the world in order to SAVE the world = Jew & Gentile
This is the Path to Truth = Proverbs 30:5
Here is the mistake you are making = Proverbs 30:6
By refusing to accept "it is written" in Romans ch11 you are seeking to undermine the Gospel = to the Jew first AND ALSO to the Gentile
PLEASE READ BELOW
" I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if you/Gentiles were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Whatever and from whoever you are learning from is boo boo.
You join with other Gentile Christians and steal another peoples' inheritance.
It's a Jewish Covenant with a Jewish Messiah.
I can see you don't even read my comments and instead use my thread to post your agenda and theology which is unbiblical nonsense.
Good luck to you and your two Israel's.
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading:- 'God Has Made No Covenant With Gentiles'
Hello @jeremiah1five,
Looking back at the wording of my entry that you have responded to (reply#58), I realise that it could easily have been misunderstood, for I made a complete mess of it, but I assure you that I am in total agreement with what you have said here.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
No, I think I understood.
So, let's try it again:
QUOTE:
Please consider the words highlighted above. For you have included the Church which is the Body of Christ, 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' into the Acts period, and the New Covenant, when it was still 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:9) during that time: and was not the subject of the book of Acts, or of the epistles written prior to it's Divinely being revealed to Paul, and made known by him during his imprisonment at Rome. It being the subject of the epistles written during that time to Eph. Phil. Col. 2 Tim. Titus and Philemon.
RESPONSE: The New Covenant Church of Acts is a continuation of the Great Congregation in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle in which over 3 million Jews were delivered from Egypt. At this time God made covenant with the children of Israel through Moses. At Pentecost 3000 Jews were born-again and filled with the Holy Spirit of Promise as per the Jeremiah 31 prophecy. This, including the Abrahamic Covenant is made with the Hebrews/Jews.
QUOTE: The New Covenant is in abeyance at this time, along with the New Covenant, because of Israel's rejection of their Messiah: both 'in the land' during the gospels, and in the diaspora at Acts 28, resulting in their present Lo-ammi condition following the quotation of Isaiah 6:9-10 by the Apostle Paul (Acts 28:25-27).
RESPONSE: There was no 'temporary pause" [abeyance] in the New Covenant but a heading straight on with the plan of God which is a progressive plan to save out of the world a people to Himself. The last prophet to speak to Israel was Malachi 400 years earlier. Christ came, taught Israel, died and resurrected for Israel according to the Scriptures. Ten days later the Holy Spirit of Promise came to the Jews according to the Scriptures and for the next four decades God was still dealing with the Jews. Although the events in Jerusalem with regard to Jesus Christ was localized and not all the people rejected Him. Proof: 3000 Jews were born again.
For the next four decades the Jewish Christians (as they were called in Acts 11) spent all that time before their Temple was destroyed learning and trying to understand this Holy Spirit and the phenomenon taking place among the Jews and searched the Hebrew Scriptures to try to understand all these things and Messiah's effect upon their covenants. They didn't know it at the time but the Body of Christ was being built before their very eyes. It was a Jewish covenant, Jesus is a Jewish Messiah, the Holy Spirit was birthing Jews into the Body of Christ/Messiah, THEIR Messiah.
When the Temple was destroyed the "ism" of Judaism was effectively ended. Now the Times of the Gentiles was to begin, and we are in that time right now. But it is coming to an end. And I believe it will come with the destruction of the Gentile nations and Gentile Christians in those nations. The Gentile Church (yes, they were "called out", too) will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble" along with Israel, and God will remove the blindness, the two witnesses will prophesy TO/Against Israel (and others) and will show through their Law, Psalms, and Prophets that this Jesus is their long-awaited Messiah, and return to Israel and fight alongside Israel against her enemies God is supernaturally bringing against His people and the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
There is a lot of history in which Gentiles have the theology they possess right now that is in error and my eyes are beginning to see all those errors as discussion at this forum develops. But for the most part, the Gentile Church has many things in error that I deal with here and, Chris, on the subjects we've interacted with and with regard to Israel and her covenants we don't oppose each other so far on the things you've commented on in my threads. I am blunt, straightforward, and honest in my replies and after re-reading my earlier comments see that my direct approach may have been a little 'strict.' So, take all this with a grain of salt, my salty friend, and with me don't be hesitant to speak your mind and come at me honest and direct just as I do to you. That is the Golden Rule, is it not (do unto others...)?
DavidTree
Well-known member
Brother,
No one is disputing the Biblical authenticity of the Jewish people and JESUS the MESSIAH born of the seed of Abraham and the Jewish lineage of David.
Paul, a Jew, and JESUS a Jew, both identified the distinction between believing Jews and unbelieving Jews.
The Israel of God is only comprised of believing Jews and Gentiles in the Jewish MESSIAH.
John ch8
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”
39They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
DavidTree
Well-known member
CORRECT
The Israel of God are only those Jews & Gentiles who have been Redeemed by the Blood of Adonai Yeshuah HaMoshiach
It is Only thru the Redemption Plan of Elohim by which the Israel of God was/is Born.
Here is God's Plan for Jews and Gentiles to be become a Member of the Household of God = John chapter 1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
DavidTree
Well-known member
Well, that is a very serious claim to make, especially since it directly refutes the Claim of the Gospel.
A.) "Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." - John 1:29
B.) "as many(Jew & Gentile) as received Him to them(Jew & Gentile) gave He power to become sons of God" - John 1:12
C.) "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Gal 3:28
Are you ashamed of the Gospel?
