Who are the Seed of Abraham, heirs of the promises of God?

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five

Unlikely I have the DNA (seed) of Abraham.

But I am born again by the seed of Christ.

Checkmate.

There is no such thing as "seed of Christ."

Christ as seed is the seed of David and Abraham but there is no seed of Christ. He is the end. He is single. He has not yet married His Church so any claimed seed of Christ would be 'births' outside of marriage and bastard. And this cannot be.

 

[Red Baker]

The false theology of non-Hebrew Gentiles included in the Abraham and Mosaic Covenants does what Jesus said CANNOT be done, that is, "Scripture cannot be broken."

Fact #1. There are NO NON-HEBREW Gentiles mentioned, named, or included in the Abraham Covenant as detailed by God in Genesis 12, 15, and 17.

@jeremiah1five


I'll be back later today, or tomorrow, to start back on this thread I can only fight one battle at time.

Daniel 10:13​

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.”

Daniel 10:20​

“Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.”

 

[ProDeo]

There is no such thing as "seed of Christ."

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Christ as seed is the seed of David and Abraham but there is no seed of Christ. He is the end. He is single. He has not yet married His Church so any claimed seed of Christ would be 'births' outside of marriage and bastard. And this cannot be.

Read Acts chapter 10 as a whole, snippets -

Acts 10:1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, [a Gentile ]

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”
Acts 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

This and my post in the other thread is my last one.

Be well.

 

[GodsGrace]

@jeremiah1five @Jim @GodsGrace @Johann


Jeremiah, here's the beginning of opening up of a mystery hidden since the world began, which mystery, God first chose to use Peter to bring the gospel of peace to the Gentiles, (even though God went before Peter, regenerating Cornelius' heart, which is clearly seen by the godly acts Cornelius was already doing before he ever heard or even seen Peter) providing him words whereby he could be saved (practically speaking ~ Acts 11:14, which words included water baptism, to provide before the circumcision their answer of a good conscience) with a more perfect knowledsge of the truth as it is in Jesus Christ.

I agree RB.
The mystery which was revealed is that the WALL between the Jews and all Gentiles has been broken.
There is only ONE Body of Christ...not two.

Ephesians 2:11-19
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called " Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands -
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR;
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,


The above shows how through the NEW COVENANT both Jew and Gentile have been made into ONE BODY.
Circumcision used to be performed by human hands in the flesh (of the male). Verse 11
But now we are circumcised by the blood of Jesus... Verse 13
and through Jesus the two have become ONE MAN.....Jew and Gentile are united in Christ. Verse 18

Jeremiah, do not attempt to say that these Gentiles were a mixed heritage Hebrew, because the best you can do is based that on pure assumption, when the scriptures clearly present to us Gentiles, by the very facts of the vison of unclean beast that God let down from heaven for Peter to arise and kill, which were a type of unclean Gentiles that God was about to sent him unto. to lead them into a more perfect manner of worshipping him.

Jeremiah, Peter said: "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons" ~In the OT, God without question shown partiality to the Jews over other nations, by leaving them to themselves and only revealing Himself to the Jews for the most part, with a few exceptions.

I agree fully that God revealed Himself as the One and True God to the Hebrews.
God elected the Jews from whom to reveal Himself.

I would NOT go so far as to say that God revealed Himself to the jews "for the most part with a few exceptions". (your words).
I do believe, and scripture supports, that God has revealed Himself to all mankind from the very beginning and this is based on
Romans 1:18-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

God gave to ALL MEN the opportunity to be saved by revealing Himself to ALL MEN from the beginning, . . so that each man appearing before God after his death will have no excuse.

That statement is still true today, God is no respecter of person, as far as the rich over the poor, intelligent of the unlearned, whites over blacks, one nation over another nation, yet still among all these he does indeed have an elect people, mostly from the unlearned, misfits, nobodies, etc.

LOL
Anyone can be an elect RB!
Even rich folk.
Even good looking folk.
Even intelligent folk.
Even very well-known folk.

Depends on whether or not they WANT to be among the elect.

By Peter being sent to the Gentiles proved to him that God does not have a respect of a certain nation as it was from Abraham until Christ. But now in every nation under heaven, he that feareth God and worketh righteousness as Cornelius did before Peter arrived, "IS" accepted with him, not will ne, but is...already! Not if you are a Jew, but the evidence is fear and believe.

Agreed!
You sound like an "arminiun"!

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel,"~The gospel first went to the Jews, and then to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16​

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”

The gospel is power to everyone that believes!
Jew, Gentile, EVERYONE!

Jeremiah, The world is incredibly diverse, with numerous ethnic groups defined by shared cultural heritage, ancestry, and other factors, including language, religion, and physical appearance. Jews, and Greeks are two of the many many different ones ~ they are not one and the same, even though some of each may live in another cultural heritage, yet the group there remains in tact. So, the according to the scriptures the gospel went unto the Greeks after it went to the Jews ~ you cannot escape that truth, I do not care how many acrobatics hermeneutics stunts you may attempt to do, you will still be found to be pushing a lie that you cannot support with the scriptures.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Agreed RB.
Amen.
My understanding is that GENTILE just means anyone that is not a Jew...

Peter for the first time truly understood this scripture, even though he had quoted it before in Acts 2:21, yet it was not until now that the light came on in his understanding! Whosever, means not only the Jews, but the Gentiles as well are now part of the one body, that Christ is the head of. Whosoever means all without distinction, not all without exception, because God does make exceptions.

RB....
You just got through saying, more than once, that God is not a respecter of persons.....
Good.

But now you ruin it all by stating that God "does make exceptions".
This is the problem with reformed theology,,,it's never consistant.

God makes NO EXCEPTIONS...ANYONE can be saved who WANTS to be saved.
You were right the first time.

Other than this (which is pretty important) I agree with your premise.
I must say that I don't fully understand @jeremiah1five 's position because I don't read each and every post.
Maybe you could explain to me....

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Yes, of the Gentles also, God is the God of! no longer is the gospel limited to the Jewish nation.

Agreed.

Romans 3:29,30​

“Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.”

We shall come back and look at this mystery hidden in the OT, yet clearly reveal in the NT...Ephesians 2: 11-3:12

Right.
So many verses....how could this be misunderstood??

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five


I'll be back later today, or tomorrow, to start back on this thread I can only fight one battle at time.

Daniel 10:13​

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.”

Daniel 10:20​

“Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.”

There's no battle. I am merely posting true, biblical Christianity.
Take your time. I believe I'll be here.

 

[Quintus5]

Red,

Eph 3 1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—

2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

J15 is reaching. You show him verses about Gentiles being part of Israel, and he "Yes, but..." they must be related somewhere. No, if all literal Israel is going to be saved, Caiaphas and Judas will be saved as well. That is just silly. If everyone who is from Israel is going to be saved anyway, then there was no purpose for the death of Christ.

I think he is arguing just for the sake of it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom. 10:4.

So, you're talking spiritual births? Jesus, a single unmarried Hebrew man is birthing seed out of marriage? Ever heard of the term "illegitimate"? Ever herd of the term "bastard"? Your holding that Jesus Christ has birthed seed - spiritual or otherwise - makes Jesus Christ's seed all illegitimate bastards.

Those that are born (-again) are born from above of the Father, NOT the Son. Jesus Christ is not asexual. He has a Bride and that Bride is Israel, a gift from the Father to the Son and the dowry? The Son's very own body and blood. If Jesus Christ is having seed out of marriage this makes Him a fornicator and a sinner and that/those seed ALL bastards.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12–13.

You are listening to sermons and teachings that has no biblical support.

It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented the Plan.
The Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL applies the Plan to God's elect.

Read Acts chapter 10 as a whole, snippets -

Acts 10:1 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, [a Gentile ]

Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
Acts 10:14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.”
Acts 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”

This and my post in the other thread is my last one.

Be well.

Who was Cornelius but a mixed heritage Hebrew of Gentile ancestry. The Roman army consisted of a majority of those peoples and Gentile ethnicities of the lands Rome conquered. They were not a majority of Italians. Rome conscripted men from the peoples they conquered, forced them into service to the Emperor.

God made no covenants with non-Hebrew Gentiles. But He did make covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and extended it to Abram's Hebrew seed. That was Abram's complaint to the God of his fathers. He wanted an heir and God promised him one. A son of two Hebrew parents for Abram and Sarai were half-siblings, brother and sister from the same family: Eber (Gen. 11.) But let's take a closer look at Cornelius:

1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
Acts 10:1–8.

God says in the Scripture that the prayers of the unatoned [Gentile] nations are sin. Even the worship of the unatoned are sin. But Cornelius had relationship with God. Some commentators label him a proselyte or a God-Fearer. But he must've been a mixed heritage Hebrew of Gentile ancestry, but STILL the seed of Abraham to whom covenant promises are made for God made NO COVENANT with any non-Hebrew Gentiles. And why is the prayers and worship of non-Hebrew Gentiles sin? Because God has no covenant relationship with Gentiles and because they are not offered under the anointing. Every Hebrew and mixed heritage Hebrew of Gentile ancestry looked forward to the promised Prophet like unto Moses, they looked forward to their Messiah (meaning, "Anointing.") There is a lesson to be learned in the book of Esther. She was chosen to be queen but before she would meet the king personally, she underwent six-months of being lavished on by fragrances and aloes and other sweet-smelling herbs, for six months she was anointed before she could meet her king. And because no flesh shall glory in God's Presence our prayers and offerings and sacrifices must be offered under the anointing and God will honor them. But as a covenant seed of Abraham Cornelius knew these things. And one day God honored his offerings. He was the key to unlocking entrance of mixed heritage Hebrews born of one of the twelve tribes - like Timothy - a mixed heritage Hebrew of Gentile ancestry into the kingdom of God.

God prophesied through Saul in Thessalonians that God will of Himself send a great delusion upon the peoples of the world, that they will believe a lie. And what do you suppose is that lie? It is the lie that, without biblical support, without a salvation covenant that Israel enjoys (Abraham, Mosaic, and New), that non-Hebrew Gentiles come from the loins of two Hebrew parents and are heirs alongside Israel in the Abraham Covenant, and they use Galatians 3:28-29 as their basis.

But nowhere in Scripture did God make any covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. There is nothing in the bible that supports it. There is no Scriptural support for this teaching that has been around for nearly 2000 years this Feast of Harvest 2032 on the Gregorian calendar. And do you know when this teaching came about? It came about very soon after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple and the third dispersion of the Jews out of Israel and the Holy Land. Mixed heritage Gentiles of Hebrew ancestry did not have it as hard as tribal Jews when Roman came calling in AD 70. These mixed heritage Hebrews who became born-again (seed of Abraham) were as Saul said, "were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" Eph 2:12, they grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture and did not practice their Judaism because of this. They knew almost nothing of their other side of their ethnicity, their Hebrew culture and after Jews were dispersed were the ones left holding true, biblical Christianity in their hands. It was just a simple step to unmoor true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots and turn it, Gentile. And for almost 2000 years the theology of a Gentile "church" was born.

True, biblical Christianity is born out of the Hebrew history, culture, and religion. Biblical Christianity is moored to the Hebrew people. And here's the proof.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Acts 21:20.

Even Saul. A rabbi and Pharisee. After he met Jesus on that Damascus road he remained obedient to the Law of Moses.

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:24.

True, Biblical Christianity is directly tied to the Law of Moses. It is NOT Gentile. It is NOT Pentecostal or Presbyterian, or Baptist. It is NOT Protestant, or Catholic, or Seventh-Day, or Methodist. It is NOT Calvinist or Arminian. It is Mosaic. Eternally tied to the Mosaic Law.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Red,

Eph 3 1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—

2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

J15 is reaching. You show him verses about Gentiles being part of Israel, and he "Yes, but..." they must be related somewhere. No, if all literal Israel is going to be saved, Caiaphas and Judas will be saved as well. That is just silly. If everyone who is from Israel is going to be saved anyway, then there was no purpose for the death of Christ.

I think he is arguing just for the sake of it.

Actually, Judas is already with Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the Law.
The high priest offered sacrifices yearly to atone for one year the sins of the Hebrew people/children of Israel.
The high priest never left Israel, went to Gentiles and offered sacrifices for their sin, did he?

Jesus as High Priest followed the Law and offered Himself as God's lamb for the sins of the Hebrew people. Jesus did not die to atone for the sins of Gentiles but for the sins of "His people" the Jews.
All of them.
And many mixed heritage Hebrews as well for they are also like Samaritans, the seed of Abraham.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we [JEWS] might receive the adoption of sons.
Galatians 4:3–5.

Gentiles were never under the Law. They are left outside the Hebrew covenants and unatoned. They will die in their sin.

Salvation is of the LORD.
Salvation is of the Jews.

But there is no Scripture that says salvation is including non-Hebrew Gentiles.

Jesus, as High Priest offered Himself in compliance of the Law of Moses for the High Priest and His blood is sprinkled upon the Hebrew people of the past, today, and of the future. And why is that? Because to the Jews Christ Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and for ever.

I'm not from Missouri but you must show me.
Show me Scripture the high priest offered sacrifices for Gentiles and when he gathered the blood sprinkled it on Gentiles thus covering their sin for one year.
Show me a salvation covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles like the covenant God has with Abraham and his Hebrew seed.

Post the Scripture in answer to my questions to "show me."

Spank you, very much.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Who was the Galatian letter written to?

Familiarity with Jewish Law and Scripture:

Galatians is replete with references to the Old Testament and Jewish legal concepts. Paul assumes a high degree of familiarity with these topics among his readers.

• Law and Covenant: Paul's central argument revolves around the contrast between the "works of the law" and "faith in Christ." He extensively quotes and interprets the Torah, particularly Abraham's story. For example, in Galatians 3:6, he writes, "Just as Abraham ‘believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’" This presupposes the audience's knowledge of Genesis 15:6.
• Allegory of Hagar and Sarah: In Galatians 4:21-31, Paul employs an allegorical interpretation of the Hagar and Sarah narrative, a sophisticated exegetical technique common in Jewish circles. This would be less effective if addressed to a predominantly Gentile audience unfamiliar with such interpretations.
• Circumcision: The debate over circumcision, a core issue in Galatians, suggests a community grappling with Jewish identity and practice. The intensity of the controversy hints at a strong Jewish element within the churches. The pressure to be circumcised would have been particularly relevant to those with a Jewish background or those who were drawn to Jewish practices.
• Terminology: Paul uses terminology like "sons of Abraham" and "heirs according to the promise," which resonate deeply within a Jewish context.

2. The Nature of the Opponents:

The "agitators" or "false teachers" who troubled the Galatian churches promoted adherence to Jewish law, particularly circumcision. Their arguments were not simply about imposing Jewish practices on Gentiles but about the necessity of these practices for attaining true righteousness and full inclusion in God's covenant, something totally relevant to a Jewish audience.

• Emphasis on Circumcision: The insistence on circumcision as a requirement for salvation points to a group with a strong Jewish orientation. This was a defining marker of Jewish identity and a central point of contention in early Jewish-Christian debates.
• Legalistic Interpretation: The opponents' emphasis on "works of the law" suggests a legalistic interpretation of Judaism that was prevalent in some Jewish circles during that period.
• Jewish-Christian Background: It is plausible that these agitators were Jewish Christians who believed that Gentile converts should fully embrace Jewish law and custom. This aligns with the account in Acts 15, where similar debates arose in the early church.

3. Historical Context and Geography:

While the exact location of the Galatian churches is debated (North Galatia vs. South Galatia), both regions had significant Jewish populations.

• Jewish Diaspora: The Jewish diaspora had spread throughout the Roman Empire, including the region of Galatia. Jewish communities existed in major cities, and synagogues served as centers of religious and social life.
• Synagogue Influence: Paul's missionary strategy often involved preaching in synagogues, where he would encounter Jews. It is likely that the early Galatian churches included converts from these synagogue communities.
• Acts of the Apostles: The book of Acts provides evidence of Paul's encounters with Jewish communities in Galatian cities. While Acts does not explicitly state that the Galatians were Jewish, it does show that Paul interacted with Jewish populations within that region.

4. Internal Evidence:

Certain passages in Galatians suggest a readership familiar with Jewish customs and debates.

• "We who are Jews by birth" (Galatians 2:15): Paul's use of the first-person plural in this verse suggests that he is addressing a group that includes Jewish believers.
• The "weak and beggarly elemental spirits" (Galatians 4:9): While interpretations vary, some scholars argue that these "elemental spirits" refer to the Jewish law, which was seen as a preparatory stage before the coming of Christ.
• The contrast between "those who want to make a good showing in the flesh" and those who are "a new creation" (Galatians 6:12-15): This contrast reflects the tension between outward observance of Jewish law and inward transformation through faith in Christ, a tension that would have been particularly relevant to Jewish Christians.

Conclusion:

The evidence suggests a significant Jewish or Jewish-Christian presence in the Galatian churches. The letter's extensive use of Old Testament scripture, the focus on circumcision and the law, the nature of the opponents, and the historical context all point to a community grappling with Jewish identity and the implications of faith in Christ for Jewish believers. It is most likely that the churches contained Jewish converts, and that the letter was written to address issues that were impacting the whole community. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the Galatian letter was written to a community that included a notable population of Jews and Jewish Christians, and that these individuals were a major concern for the apostle Paul when he penned this letter.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Red,

Eph 3 1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—

2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

J15 is reaching. You show him verses about Gentiles being part of Israel, and he "Yes, but..." they must be related somewhere. No, if all literal Israel is going to be saved, Caiaphas and Judas will be saved as well. That is just silly. If everyone who is from Israel is going to be saved anyway, then there was no purpose for the death of Christ.

I think he is arguing just for the sake of it.

You misunderstand the need for a sacrifice for the sinfulness of created man (and woman.)

Yes, as Saul said, "and all Israel shall be saved" is correct, it is in Scripture, and it is necessary because God created man sinful, or as Strong defines the word, "missing the mark." What is the "mark" missed? It is the glory of God, or the glory that is God.

While the majority of Christendom believe in a "Fall" of man, Scripture destroys such a belief that a "Fall" even occurred. And the proof, of course, is Scripture itself. The Gentile theology of the created man and woman is one of several things. That God created man "holy" or "sinless" or "righteous" and even "innocent," but these are all incorrect.

The key to understanding the 'make-up' of the created man and woman falls on several passages by the prophet Isaiah. Here they are. He says, "There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Me, and I give my Glory to NO ONE.

Isaiah declares that there is only ONE God:
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
There is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:5–6.

Isaiah declares there is NO ONE like Him:
9 Remember the former things of old:
For I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,
Isaiah 46:9.

Isaiah declares God gives His glory (Holiness, Righteousness, Sinlessness) to NO ONE:
8 I am the LORD: that is my name:
And my glory will I not give to another,
Neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 42:8.

Holiness, Righteousness, and Sinlessness are revealed in Scripture as the Nature and Deific Attributes of Deity (God.) So, if Isaiah is correct (and he is), then man and woman cannot be created "holy" or "righteous" or "sinless" for these are revealed in Scripture as the Nature and Deific Attributes of God Himself. Thus, created man and woman were created "missing the mark" of the Glory of God, or the Glory that is God. Therefore, created man could not be created "holy" or "righteous" or "sinless." Nor is it possible for God to reduplicate, copy, or mimic Himself in created man at his creation and this leaves the man and woman "fallen short of the very Glory of God or else if God even did recreate His Nature of Deific Attributes in man and woman then by definition there would be three God's. And if it was even possible for God to create the man and woman possessing any one, two, or three Nature's or Deific Attributes of God then man and woman would by necessity MUST be created possessing ALL the revealed Nature and Deific Attributes of God or he and she would "fall short of God's Glory." There is only ONE Person who can stand before a Holy, Righteous, and Sinless God blameless and that is a Holy, Righteous, and Sinless Son. Besides these things First Corinthians 15 records the difference and distinctions between the first Adam and the last Adam (Christ.)

The Son is uncreated and is eternal. Man had a beginning. If man was created sinful ("missing the mark"), then his sin of disobedience came from Adam's sinfulness of his creation for sin does not come from that which is Holy. The last Adam (Christ) proved this. Christ was Holy, Righteous, and Sinless and did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth. The first Adam was created from created matter (dust/dirt) or from below, and the last Adam was the Lord from heaven or above. The first Adam was of the earth, earthy; and the last Adam was spiritual.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:42–49.

Adam was "sown" or "planted" or "created" in corruption, in dishonour, and in weakness." There is nothing holy about the dust of the ground. Adam was not created eternal for he would have died anyways if he had not disobeyed and sinned else why would it be necessary to bar the Tree of Life to prevent him from being eternal or living forever. But you will say, the Tree of Life was barred to Adam so he wouldn't live forever in a sinful state. So, if eating the Tree of Life would give Adam eternal life, then this means he wasn't eternal in his creation to begin with thus rendering him "fallen short of the Glory of God." Then, there is this passage written around 1000 BC.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:13.

In other words, sin comes from sinner.I wonder how ancient that proverb is. Maybe all the way to the Garden, maybe spoken by Adam? At any rate, there is also a sin committed by Adam and the woman they committed before the sin of disobedience and that is they lied. And as you know lying is a sin. What was their sin? They added to God's Word when they added "neither shall ye touch it."

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

So, if they were sinners before the sin of disobedience then there was no "Fall" at all to begin with and the theology of a "Fall" of man when he disobeyed is also a lie and false doctrine. A study of First Corinthians 15 concerning the first and last Adam is a good study in contrast. The great differences between the first and last Adam are evident in the chapter.

Next is the salvation of Judas Iscariot. Here is a man under the Law of Moses called by God and His Christ to be an apostle in the same way the other eleven were called and named an apostle by Christ. I'll only give you a couple of passages on the question of Judas although I have others that prove Judas is with his Lord right now and will be among the saints to return with Jesus when He comes back.

12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
Luke 6:12–16.

Jesus names these men "apostles." Not eleven apostles and one false apostle. It doesn't say that. Nor does it say 'eleven apostles and one devil-apostle.' Not only did Christ name these twelve 'apostles' but they all twelve were true apostles of the lamb. I hear Christians say that Judas didn't "repent" or ask God for forgiveness. I don't think I've ever seen anything in the Law that guides or directs any sinning Jew to "repent" or ask God for forgiveness for their sin. We're under the Law here. If one under the Law sins, then there is retribution and consequences. There is also instruction as to what sin-offering to give. I have before addressed the question of Judas in the past and in my post asked whether anyone can identify what sin Judas committed and mostly all couldn't identify his sin. Yes, he was a traitor. But what was his sin? They may say 'Judas was a thief. I agree. He held the bag and helped himself to its contents. Peter was a cusser. Where is his repentance for cussing and cursing? Then there is this:

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Matt. 27:3–5.

Here, for you New Testament people we have the elements of 'repentance' and 'conversion.' The Greek word in Scripture for "repentance" in "metanoia" and its cognates means "to change one's mind." Well, Judas changed his mind about what he'd done. "He saw" Jesus was condemned and he confessed his sin - "I have betrayed innocent blood." What was the penalty for being complicit in the death of an innocent man? Pretty harsh. It is eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and life for life. But the stunning thing was what the chief priests and elders said. They said, "What is that to us? See thou to that!" In other words, "You handle it!"
He did. He went out and committed suicide and hanged himself.
If these chief priests and elders were not corrupt what the Law called for was to take the perpetrator outside city limits and stone him. But they told him, "you handle it!"
He did. He went and killed himself in obedience to the Law of "life for life."

Then there are those that say Judas was a "son of perdition" and that he was lost (John 17.)
The word translated "perdition" means "ruin" by Strong. But there are three senses in which to understand the word in context of its use. Strong says it means "ruin" and the three senses of its use is "physical ruin, spiritual ruin, and eternal ruin."
It doesn't mean "spiritual ruin" for the Holy Spirit had not been given because Jesus was still on the planet and could not send the Comforter unless He departed.
It wasn't "eternal ruin" for the fact that Judas under the Law no eternalness wasn't even part of the equation because under the Law the animal sacrifice was temporary, every year. Not one Jew in real time under the Law ever had eternal life until Jesus resurrected from the grave proving God had accepted His sacrifice to atone for those to whom substitutionary sacrifice was given - the children of Israel. And as a Jewish man he was already under covenant and heir according to the promise.
For Judas his ruin was "physical ruin." He committed suicide, and after that the branch he tied the rope to broke and he spilled down the side of the hill and his insides gushed and broke out. Grisly. Jesus prophesied Judas was a son of perdition and his ruin was a physical ruin, something that does not bar a person from salvation and eternal life.

Then there is Revelation which states the names of the twelve apostles of the lamb will have their names written on the foundation of the wall of New Jerusalem. The term "apostles of the lamb" helps us date these apostles. They are the twelve apostles correlating to Jesus as a lamb meaning during His earthly ministry. John did call Jesus, "Behold! The lamb of God," right? I can also show you what I find in Acts 1:15-26.
Yes, I can show through Scripture and reason Judas Iscariot is right now with his Lord and will be among the saints the Lord brings back when He returns.