FOUR reasons I believe in the sinful nature. (original sin/ancestral sin/total depravity)

[praise_yeshua]

Tom's right on this one.

Careful when using Strong's it's just a very brief gloss.

It is a good cross reference to identify the semantic range of any ancient source for words.

There is no definitive "definition" to be found anywhere today among supposed "definitive sources" that seek to "define" the words we read from Scripture.

The definition is among the Scriptures themselves in the "semantic range" of the authors that used them.

Such is lost today. Everyone wants a "dictionary" for the Scriptures. An "easy button"......

I have an suggestion........

STUDY the " semantic range" of ancient words. Even from ancient secular sources. Do you know how we understand ancient Hebrew words????

We have ancient cross reference to be found in the Greek and Aramaic languages.

 

[praise_yeshua]

My problem is not with our having a sin nature but with the current contradiction within the doublethink logic that GOD is HOLY ie, HE cannot do evil, yet HE creates evil sinners by creating them in Adam and by conception into Adam. I take GOD's holiness much more seriously than to accept that.

To have a nature enslaved to sin as proven by a liability to death, MUST BE by a free will decision to rebel against GOD and in no way can it be a result of GOD's choice for our creation.

We must have been created before our conception on earth.
We must have become sinners by our free will before the foundation of the earth as being born as reprobate proves.
We must have been sent to earth as sinners by the will of GOD for the redemption of HIS sinful elect by the blood of the Son.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. God never creates evil.

What God does is allow mankind to operate independently of Him. This causes and creates evil.

Adam was incomplete. He was a work in progress. God took 6 days in creation. So don't tell me that God "instantly".... with the "snap of the finger"..... causes things to just "appear" without progressive creative action from God Himself.

Such isn't true. It is a fairy tale full of deception.....

God is crafting a people that will willing serve Him. A "people" that will of their own volition cooperate with God's Divine Character to be like God. A people in His own image and after His own likeness. That likeness is Personified in the Person of Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world.

You need to reconsider your conclusions.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I just read this.

The Bible refers to it as “sin nature.” Adam and Eve sinned against God by doing what He told them not to do, and the sin principle they established was forever passed to every person who would ever be born. God sent His Son, Jesus, to die for our sins, and to deliver us from them. He came to undo what Adam did. When we accept Jesus as our Savior, He comes to live in our spirit, and if we allow that renewed part of us to rule our decisions, we can overcome the sin nature in our flesh. It doesn’t go away, but the greater One Who lives in us helps us overcome it daily (see Gal. 5:16). That does not mean that we never sin, but we can improve and make progress throughout our lives.

LINK

Satan preexisted Adam and Eve. Sin preexisted Adam and Eve. Sin entered this world. It did not originate in Adam and Eve. Eve was deceived. Adam loved Eve and rightfully gave his life for Eve.

It is why Christ is referenced as the "Second Adam".

This "fairy tale" people have been sold is a lie.

God isn't afraid of sin. Sin has no authority over God nor does Sin have a chance against God. Sin is not a challenge to His Divinity nor is the Judgement of Sin.... JUSTICE.

If the Judgement of Sin is JUSTICE.... then God is certainly not LONGSUFFERING......

We know God is LONGSUFFERING. God is not fearful of suffering for what He loves. I.E. Jesus Christ.

 

[Dizerner]

My problem is...

Your problem is that you are trusting your own moral purity to establish what is right, instead of trusting God's Word.

You "decide" what you think is acceptable for God, instead of letting God actually BE God, and in so doing, you put yourself in the place of God.

If you say are theoretically born sinful, then you must not trust yourself, nor the purity of your own motives.

You are not making theological decisions based on putting God first, but rather your own preferences and values.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your problem is that you are trusting your own moral purity to establish what is right, instead of trusting God's Word.

You "decide" what you think is acceptable for God, instead of letting God actually BE God, and in so doing, you put yourself in the place of God.

If you say are theoretically born sinful, then you must not trust yourself, nor the purity of your own motives.

You are not making theological decisions based on putting God first, but rather your own preferences and values.

Funny....

What is purer than the innocent love of a child feeding from their own mother? A child solely dependent and at the mercy of their own parents.

This mimics the life we have in God from the beginning.

We create sinners. Not God. These sinners you allude too are crafted by the failures of their parents. There is a treasure to be found in these "earthen vessels" we possess. What YOU see as sin is nothing more than need combined with innocence absent the power to help ourselves.

 

[Dizerner]

Funny....

What is purer than the innocent love of a child feeding from their own mother?

God is more pure than his creation.

Until you accept that you are caught up in idolatry.

We create sinners. Not God. These sinners you allude too are crafted by the failures of their parents. There is a treasure to be found in these "earthen vessels" we possess. What YOU see as sin is nothing more than need combined with innocence absent the power to help ourselves.

All are constituted sinners in Adam and so all die in Adam.

Just as all live in Christ, and not their own purity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is more pure than his creation.

Until you accept that you are caught up in idolatry.



All are constituted sinners in Adam and so all die in Adam.

Just as all live in Christ, and not their own purity.

Then Adam wasn't pure?

There is death of this body and there is eternal death that comes from rejecting Jesus Christ.

Why do you not see a difference? Why are you conflating the two?

We can have good conversation if you keep responding.

 

[TomL]

Westcott & Hort were closet Catholics.

You obviously do not know what I know.
God created man sinful. God is the Author of evil.
Isaiah's statements blow your Gentile theology out of the water.
By saying, "Thou shalt not [eat of it]" proves Adam was a sinner before he ate from the forbidden tree.
The existence of a "thou shalt not" in the Garden proves Adam was a sinner before he disobeyed and ate from the forbidden Tree.

Actually, as shown, it does not.

Again the passage and the word you post refers to disaster

Isaiah 45:7 (NASB95) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (UASV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) — 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (LSB) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Producing peace and creating calamity; I am Yahweh who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (The Modern Language Bible: Berkeley Version) — 7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am the LORD who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NRSV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (CSB) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NKJV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

Isaiah 45:7 (NABRE) — 7 I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NJB) — 7 I form the light and I create the darkness, I make well-being, and I create disaster, I, Yahweh, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NCV) — 7 I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the LORD, do all these things.

You have ignored the multiplicity of translations, context as revealed through previous commentary and selectively appealed to a meaning of your choice

PS thou shall not eat of it does nothing at all to show Adam was a sinner before he ate.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The point under discussion is whether God makes everything happen.

You stated

No, Scripture says that. I merely agree with it as a true believer should.

The point under discussion is whether God makes everything happen.

You stated

Everything in creation is the direct result of God. It's called "Sovereignty."

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; Heb 12:2.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Romans 8:20.

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Heb. 2:8.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:22.

As I said before, even if Adam had not disobeyed God, in time Adam would have eventually died because he was not created eternal as Eternalness is an Attribute of God and God does not share His glory. After Adam's disobedience he died "in the day" he ate from the Tree. Being created a trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit, Adam did not die physically "in the day" he ate from the Tree, so this death was not physical. Neither did Adam die soulfully for he lived a total of 930 years, and he communicated with God using every faculty of the soul which consists of intellect, mind, senses, emotions, conscience, and will. He died "spiritually" in the day he ate from the Tree. The human spirit he was created with died "in the day" he ate from the Tree.

And what was Adam's (and the woman's) punishment?

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:16–19.

But the beasts of the field, the life in the sea, and the fowl of the air didn't disobey God. Why are they being punished with death for Adam's sin of disobedience? That is not just for punishing the innocent. Why do they die? Because just as Adam and the woman were created sinful ("missing the mark" of the glory of God), so was all creation subject to death merely by their creation for nothing was created eternal for Eternalness is an Attribute of God and even the very earth, moon, planets, stars, etc., are subject to vanity and are subject to the existing law of Entropy, that everything breaks down into chaos (you're right, God is the Author of evil or as some define the word 'evil' in Isaiah 45:7 as 'calamity') that everything breaks down into calamity of chaos. Creation is not eternal. Eternalness is an Attribute of God and God does not share His glory - eternalness - with anybody.

Everything in creation, including the man, will die in time, for time is the Great Equalizer. And everyone born to Adam and the woman and everyone born into the world after that are born as a dichotomy - body and soul, no human spirit - will die as a body and soul unless God intervenes in their lives and they become born-again and God creates a new human spirit in the person and the person is restored to a trichotomy, one aspect of the Trinity which is body (Jesus Christ), soul (Father), and spirit (Holy Spirit.)

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph. 4:24.

Thus, all living creatures would have eventually died in the Garden even if Adam had not disobeyed God and that's because no creature was created eternal, and by not being eternal would die in time whether of not Adam ate from the Tree or not because sin is death and death is sin, and all living things God created in the universe would have died eventually. Thus, all living things were created sinful, or as the word is defined are created "sin."

There is my proof besides Scripture.

 

[TomL]

No, Scripture says that. I merely agree with it as a true believer should.

Everything in creation is the direct result of God. It's called "Sovereignty."

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; Heb 12:2.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Romans 8:20.

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. Heb. 2:8.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:22.

As I said before, even if Adam had not disobeyed God, in time Adam would have eventually died because he was not created eternal as Eternalness is an Attribute of God and God does not share His glory. After Adam's disobedience he died "in the day" he ate from the Tree. Being created a trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit, Adam did not die physically "in the day" he ate from the Tree, so this death was not physical. Neither did Adam die soulfully for he lived a total of 930 years, and he communicated with God using every faculty of the soul which consists of intellect, mind, senses, emotions, conscience, and will. He died "spiritually" in the day he ate from the Tree. The human spirit he was created with died "in the day" he ate from the Tree.

And what was Adam's (and the woman's) punishment?

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:16–19.

But the beasts of the field, the life in the sea, and the fowl of the air didn't disobey God. Why are they being punished with death for Adam's sin of disobedience? That is not just for punishing the innocent. Why do they die? Because just as Adam and the woman were created sinful ("missing the mark" of the glory of God), so was all creation subject to death merely by their creation for nothing was created eternal for Eternalness is an Attribute of God and even the very earth, moon, planets, stars, etc., are subject to vanity and are subject to the existing law of Entropy, that everything breaks down into chaos (you're right, God is the Author of evil or as some define the word 'evil' in Isaiah 45:7 as 'calamity') that everything breaks down into calamity of chaos. Creation is not eternal. Eternalness is an Attribute of God and God does not share His glory - eternalness - with anybody.

Everything in creation, including the man, will die in time, for time is the Great Equalizer. And everyone born to Adam and the woman and everyone born into the world after that are born as a dichotomy - body and soul, no human spirit - will die as a body and soul unless God intervenes in their lives and they become born-again and God creates a new human spirit in the person and the person is restored to a trichotomy, one aspect of the Trinity which is body (Jesus Christ), soul (Father), and spirit (Holy Spirit.)

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph. 4:24.

Thus, all living creatures would have eventually died in the Garden even if Adam had not disobeyed God and that's because no creature was created eternal, and by not being eternal would die in time whether of not Adam ate from the Tree or not because sin is death and death is sin, and all living things God created in the universe would have died eventually. Thus, all living things were created sinful, or as the word is defined are created "sin."

There is my proof besides Scripture.

This is scripture

Scripture makes it clear he does cause all that happens

James 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 No one who is being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desires.

1 John 2:16 (LEB) — 16 because everything that is in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the arrogance of material possessions—is not from the Father, but is from the world.

Jeremiah 32:35 (LEB) — 35 And they built the high places of Baal that are in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to present as offerings their sons and their daughters to Molech, which I had not commanded them, and it had not come to my mind to do this detestable thing in order to cause Judah to sin.”

Isaiah 30:1 (LEB) — 1 “Oh rebellious children!” declares Yahweh, “to make a plan, but not from me, and pour out a libation, but not from my Spirit, so as to add sin to sin.

Galatians 5:7–8 (LEB) — 7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from the one who calls you!

1 Corinthians 10:13 (LEB) — 13 Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity. But God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it.

I do not see where you have addressed it


God does not cause everything that happens, and sovereignty does not necessitate micromanagement.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Again the passage and the word you post refers to disaster

Isaiah 45:7 (NASB95) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (UASV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) — 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (LSB) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Producing peace and creating calamity; I am Yahweh who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (The Modern Language Bible: Berkeley Version) — 7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am the LORD who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NRSV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (CSB) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NKJV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

Isaiah 45:7 (NABRE) — 7 I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NJB) — 7 I form the light and I create the darkness, I make well-being, and I create disaster, I, Yahweh, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NCV) — 7 I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the LORD, do all these things.

You have ignored the multiplicity of translations, context as revealed through previous commentary and selectively appealed to a meaning of your choice

I already addressed this desire to interpret and define the word "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 as "calamity."
Great. God is the Author of Calamity (Isaiah 45:7.)

That supports my position that Adam and the woman were created "sinful" (missing the mark of the glory of God.) So, let's look at this using your inaccurate definition which definition is the moral "evil."

What was Adam and the woman's punishment for disobeying?

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:16–19.

Adam and the woman were being punished for disobeying God. All living creatures didn't disobey God. Why is their penalty as innocent creatures condemned to die? It would be unjust to punish innocent creatures with death (dust to dust, etc.) Unless, of course, there was no penalty of death upon innocent creatures but that because they also were created sinful, they would have eventually died in time whether or not Adam sinned and disobeyed God.

Ever heard of the Law of Entropy? It is a scientific fact. In essence, it states that the total entropy of an isolated system tends to increase over time. This means that systems naturally progress towards a state of greater disorder or randomness. The universe was not under the judgment of God upon Adam and the woman for their sin of disobedience. And yet creation in time dies. Everything in creation naturally degenerates into chaos and disorder, so I guess defining the word "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 as "calamity" is accurate that God created the universe that will in time and on its own degenerates into chaos and calamity and that God IS the Author of Calamity where creation is concerned that is not centered on earth. In other words, God cursed the ground under the feet of Adam, which by extension, would cover the planet earth. And yet creation excluding earth which is under direct curse from God experiences the same result of chaos and calamity and death as the earth undergoes as the result of God's curse upon earth.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature [creation] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Romans 8:19–22.

God is the Author of "Calamity" ("evil" Isaiah 45:7) and even the universe which did not receive any curse from God for Adam's sin degenerates into chaos, calamity, and death on its own as God created it to die because creation itself was created sinful which in its natural state as created was created to die. Sure, it's an oversimplification but the result is the same. God cursed the ground (earth) but not the rest of creation/universe and in its natural, created state is degenerating into chaos, calamity, and death. So, God is the Author of sinful things in creation because everything outside of earth will die because they were not created eternal thus proving that God is the Author of sinfulness in creation because the definition of sin is death and the definition of death is sin and creation was not cursed but in its natural state will experience death which is the penalty for sin or sinful (missing the mark.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

and..?? Tell us more about how you merged your Ethnic Cleansing mindset with Catholicism. We would like to know what came out of that union.

Thank God I do not know the depths of your Ethnic Cleansing delirium.

May you and your sinner pagan god be happy with each other. As for me and my family, we will serve the eternally Holy God.

So the fact that there are laws against murder makes you a sinner of that law??? This is typical of your thinking that warps minds.

Yes, and ethnic cleansing comes from God. Abraham was Promised land. The Abraham Covenant was also extended to Abraham's seed. When God separated Abraham with a covenant from the rest of the Adamites who had no covenant, God signified this covenant with Abraham and HIS SEED by a sign called circumcision. Now, pay attention:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3.

All Abraham's seed and families are in sight here for blessings from God. Gentiles do not come from Abraham's loins. God is not even referring to Gentiles when He says, "IN THEE" shall all YOUR families be blessed.
All the families of the earth do not refer to Gentiles or Gentile nations. God is referring to Abraham's seed in the passage above. Ω
The families that did come from IN THEE came from Ishmael and Esau, to name a couple.

Ta da!

 

[synergy]

Yes, and ethnic cleansing comes from God. Abraham was Promised land. The Abraham Covenant was also extended to Abraham's seed. When God separated Abraham with a covenant from the rest of the Adamites who had no covenant, God signified this covenant with Abraham and HIS SEED by a sign called circumcision. Now, pay attention:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3.

All Abraham's seed and families are in sight here for blessings from God. Gentiles do not come from Abraham's loins. God is not even referring to Gentiles when He says, "IN THEE" shall all YOUR families be blessed.
All the families of the earth do not refer to Gentiles or Gentile nations. God is referring to Abraham's seed in the passage above. Ω
The families that did come from IN THEE came from Ishmael and Esau, to name a couple.

Ta da!

I was hoping you would expose more of your closet Catholicism and how you merged it with your Ethnic Cleansing mindset. That could have explained events like the Inquisition.

Don't be shy to tell us how your closet Catholicism includes Catholics in with the OT Covenants. How is that possible?? Oh oh I know, I know. They all have some Jewish ancestry, however small in their DNA. See I'm learning all these wacky theories from you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I was hoping you would expose more of your closet Catholicism and how you merged it with your Ethnic Cleansing mindset. That could have explained events like the Inquisition.

Don't be shy to tell us how your closet Catholicism includes Catholics in with the OT Covenants. How is that possible?? Oh oh I know, I know. They all have some Jewish ancestry, however small in their DNA. See I'm learning all these wacky theories from you.

Wacky indeed.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Actually, as shown, it does not.



PS thou shall not eat of it does nothing at all to show Adam was a sinner before he ate.

What if I said that Adam's sin that brought about physical death wasn't to eat of the tree?

I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter.

We know exact what brought about the judgement of death upon Adam. It wasn't the fruit of the tree or even disobeying God. It is how Adam disobeyed God. Too many people focus on the eating of the fruit and miss what Adam's sin really was...

Nakedness itself isn't a sin. In fact, the writer of Hebrews appeals to such when he talks about "all things are open and naked to God".

 

[praise_yeshua]

God does not cause everything that happens, and sovereignty does not necessitate micromanagement.

Well said!!!!!!!!!!

 

[civic]

Again the passage and the word you post refers to disaster

Isaiah 45:7 (NASB95) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (NIV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (UASV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (ESV) — 7 I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (LSB) — 7 The One forming light and creating darkness, Producing peace and creating calamity; I am Yahweh who does all these.

Isaiah 45:7 (The Modern Language Bible: Berkeley Version) — 7 I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am the LORD who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NRSV) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (CSB) — 7 I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NKJV) — 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’

Isaiah 45:7 (NABRE) — 7 I form the light, and create the darkness, I make weal and create woe; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NJB) — 7 I form the light and I create the darkness, I make well-being, and I create disaster, I, Yahweh, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (NCV) — 7 I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the LORD, do all these things.

You have ignored the multiplicity of translations, context as revealed through previous commentary and selectively appealed to a meaning of your choice

good translations proving that its up for debate and not as presented by the fatalist camp with evil. There are so many other passages about Gods Good ( not evil ) character which prove God temps no man with evil nor does He cause evil to occur. Its the devil which causes evil and temps man with evil, not God. Besides my last statement Jesus tells us its the evil in man own heart/mind.

 

[TedT]

God never creates evil.

Believing this while also believing that HE creates us by conception in Adam liable to death for sin is ...what? Illogical to the extreme and full of doublethink!!

 

[TedT]

Your problem is that you are trusting your own moral purity to establish what is right, instead of trusting God's Word.

Since I have never contended or claim to have any moral purity that does not come only from GOD, I only read this as blah, blah, bleh.

 

[synergy]

Believing this while also believing that HE creates us by conception in Adam liable to death for sin is ...what? Illogical to the extreme and full of doublethink!!

Granted, our bodies do decay and die but that is a consequence of Adam's sin and not because God is in the business of creating sinful nature.

God does not produce sinful anything, let alone a sin nature. He is not a pagan god that creates sinful things. Our human nature came straight from God. Only pagan gods produce sinful things. It is us, as persons, who sin and degrade ourselves.

If human nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took up the very same human nature we all have?