Favoritism in Unconditional Election

[civic]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Are you back to translating "hate" as "love less"? If so, it doesn't matter to me.

its a prefect comparison since its the same word hate used by God.

do you hate them ? yes or no

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

Nevertheless, you two have a lot in common.

Modern Protestant evangelicals admire Origen for his passionate devotion to the scriptures but are frequently baffled or even appalled by his allegorical interpretation of them, which many believe ignores the literal, historical truth behind them.

[Origen] wrote hundreds of homilies covering almost the entire Bible, interpreting many passages as allegorical.

Origen based his teaching of the preexistence of souls on an allegorical interpretation of the creation story in the Book of Genesis.

Origen saw the "spiritual" interpretation as the deepest and most important meaning of the text and taught that some passages held no literal meaning at all and that their meanings were purely allegorical.

is Origen your Patron Saint? It would explain alot.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

its a prefect comparison since its the same word hate used by God.

do you hate them ? yes or no

hope this helps !!!

I take the words of Jesus literally. But my personal life is none of your edit by Admin business.

 

[civic]

I take the words of Jesus literally. But my personal life is none of your freakin' business.

so why haven't you literally plucked out your eyes ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, similarity. @praise_yeshua Thinks that "Jacob I love but Esau I hated" is not to be taken as literal or historical, but as allegory. That's exactly the kind of thing Origen did. Now @praise_yeshua can backpedal and say it's both literal and allegorical, but then that would validate my point. If it's also literal and historical, it proves that God does love some people less than He loves others.

No backpedaling at all. It is evident that God literally loved Esau. Do you know the Scriptural narrative?
God blessed Esau even though he cared nothing for his birthright. Jacob literally loved Esau. Isaac literally loved Esau. I.mean seriously, you are fostering the idea that love is useless for the overwhelming majority of humanity and... yet, YOU are different. How depraved....

You are resisting the truth because of the ramifications to your beliefs. You have found comfort in a lie. Truth makes us uncomfortable and troubled. That is where you are. I've been there myself. Lies comfort us.

Don't believe me. Doesn't change the truth. You find comfort in a narrative beyond your control. When you realize that you actually have control of your destiny, you become troubled.

If what you say is true, then what I say doesn't matter. Leave me to my supposed weed trip and worry about yourself. There is a reason Calvinistic people fight like they do. They are trying to convince themselves.
Origen was an idiot. I appealed to Paul's use of allegory. The faithful have lived the Gospel through their very lives. Believe it or not. There are plenty of Scriptural examples. I have NEVER once appealed or quoted Origen. I don't need him for anything.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The only answer I can come up with for questions like that is, "go perform coitus with yourself".

You are obviously struggling with the demands of Truth upon your life. The Kingdom of God is near you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Guilt by association fallacy

I've never promoted Origen. He was at the very least an extraordinarily dishonest man.

Allegory is written in the lives of the faithful. Abraham has two sons. One of promise and one of bondage. Cast out the child of the bond women. He will not be heir with the child of promise. Isaac. A clear allegory to the only heir of Abraham. Christ.

Abraham loved all of his children. Isaac loved Ishmael and the sons of Keturah.

The theology of some often reflect the lack of natural affection among humanity. Satan loves his own and hates anyone that isn't.

Good news. It doesn't have to be that way. God can change anyone. He just requires a free self choice that is meaningful to Him.

 

[synergy]

I've never promoted Origen. He was at the very least an extraordinarily dishonest man.

Allegory is written in the lives of the faithful. Abraham has two sons. One of promise and one of bondage. Cast out the child of the bond women. He will not be heir with the child of promise. Isaac. A clear allegory to the only heir of Abraham. Christ.

Abraham loved all of his children. Isaac loved Ishmael and the sons of Keturah.

The theology of some often reflect the lack of natural affection among humanity. Satan loves his own and hates anyone that isn't.

Good news. It doesn't have to be that way. God can change anyone. He just requires a free self choice that is meaningful to Him.

You are doing a much better job than just allegorizing. You are using typology when you related Jacob to Christ. What you wrote about Jacob in another post showed that Jacob is a type of Christ. Kudos on that!

You are also right about Origen. His writings were eventually anathemized by the Church.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are doing a much better job than just allegorizing. You are using typology when you related Jacob to Christ. What you wrote about Jacob in another post showed that Jacob is a type of Christ. Kudos on that!

You are also right about Origen. His writings were eventually anathemized by the Church.

Thanks. An Allegorical statement often leads to typology. To me, people shouldn't fear allegories as long as they have a clear application to tangible things.

 

[Presby02]

@atpollard



I can't help but see the lack of self awareness in Calvinism with such statements.

Just how does this work? You have a Calvinist claiming "lack of favoritism"... by appealing to "favoritism". They actually believe they are destroying the idea of favoritism with the claim that God choose them. (favoritism)

To add to this "folly"...... "boondoggle". They openly boast of God's choice in themselves with said silly doctrine.

Sorry... it is very obvious that you have a "condition" associated with your claims of "unconditional" election.

There is no condition, hence the unconditional part of unconditional election.

Do you have a example of a Calvinist boasting in themselves?

 

[praise_yeshua]

There is no condition, hence the unconditional part of unconditional election.

Do you have a example of a Calvinist boasting in themselves?

Sure do. I have vastly more experience than you do with the topic.
There is no such thing as unconditional election. Christ died for sinners. The death of Christ was conditional.

 

[Presby02]

Conflating them again. Hate can mean to love or esteem less . That’s not what love means.

Sure do. I have vastly more experience than you do with the topic.
There is no such thing as unconditional election. Christ died for sinners. The death of Christ was conditional.

We're not talking about the death of Christ. We're talking about election. Try to stay on topic there Mr experience.

 

[civic]

Sure do. I have vastly more experience than you do with the topic.
There is no such thing as unconditional election. Christ died for sinners. The death of Christ was conditional.

Amen

 

[praise_yeshua]

We're not talking about the death of Christ. We're talking about election. Try to stay on topic there Mr experience.

You're the one that said that salvation was unconditional. Retract what you claimed because it isn't true. You have no authority to define the limits of a topic.

 

[brightfame52]

You're the one that said that salvation was unconditional. Retract what you claimed because it isn't true. You have no authority to define the limits of a topic.

It is unconditional as it pertains to the recipient of Salvation. Christ met all the conditions for it to be freely given to Gods elect. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now the redemption was conditioned on Christ and His Work

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is unconditional as it pertains to the recipient of Salvation. Christ met all the conditions for it to be freely given to Gods elect. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now the redemption was conditioned on Christ and His Work

As always, you're always ignoring the fact that Christ didn't have to die for anyone. Thusly, there would be no salvation.

Your false gospel teaches that the death of Christ was essential for YOUR election. In other words, your gospel is really about YOU. Not Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

As always, you're always ignoring the fact that Christ didn't have to die for anyone. Thusly, there would be no salvation.

Your false gospel teaches that the death of Christ was essential for YOUR election. In other words, your gospel is really about YOU. Not Christ.

It is unconditional as it pertains to the recipient of Salvation. Christ met all the conditions for it to be freely given to Gods elect. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now the redemption was conditioned on Christ and His Work

Election is of grace as well Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Also remnant means only some are saved by Grace from the whole.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is unconditional as it pertains to the recipient of Salvation. Christ met all the conditions for it to be freely given to Gods elect. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now the redemption was conditioned on Christ and His Work
Election is of grace as well Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Also remnant means only some are saved by Grace from the whole.

Did Christ have to die for you?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It is unconditional as it pertains to the recipient of Salvation. Christ met all the conditions for it to be freely given to Gods elect. Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Now the redemption was conditioned on Christ and His Work
Election is of grace as well Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Also remnant means only some are saved by Grace from the whole.

This is why "this is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent" can't mean "this is the work required by God". If believing is the work required by God then grace is no longer grace, since work was required to be saved.

 

[Presby02]

You're the one that said that salvation was unconditional. Retract what you claimed because it isn't true. You have no authority to define the limits of a topic.

No. Because it is unconditional. Don't tell me what to do. Thank you