Excellent Discussion on OSAS

In my flesh = every one of them

Can you be specific?


Do you have trouble with idolatry serving other God’s or are you faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Do you take the LORD’s name in vain?

Do you honor your father and mother?

Do you struggle with murder?

Do struggle with adultery?

Do you struggle with stealing?

Do you struggle with lying?

Do you struggle with covetousness; an obsession with obtaining other people’s things?
 
Can you be specific?


Do you have trouble with idolatry serving other God’s or are you faithful to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Do you take the LORD’s name in vain?

Do you honor your father and mother?

Do you struggle with murder?

Do struggle with adultery?

Do you struggle with stealing?

Do you struggle with lying?

Do you struggle with covetousness; an obsession with obtaining other people’s things?
In my flesh, in your flesh @JLB "dwells no good thing"

By God's Grace, the Mercy of Christ as our Intercessor and the power of the Holy Spirit i am granted faith unto obedience to His commandments.
 
Those who have been chosen by God, those for whom Christ died and who have been called out of death and into life, God will preserve by His grace until the end. No one will ever snatch them out of their Father’s hand.

How about wandering away from Christ and becoming lost?

This of course is not someone snatching you out of the Father’s hand, but rather you choosing to walk away from Him.


Does your Theology believe this is possible?


Jesus teaches the reality of this.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

Obviously His sheep can become lost.


  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

His sheep who become lost are called sinners.

His sheep who become lost are no longer justified, but must repent just as they did when they were first saved.


Do you agree the lost need salvation?
 
In my flesh, in your flesh @JLB "dwells no good thing"

Amen. That’s why I focus on walking according to the Spirit.

This is a lifestyle with many various components.

It is an intentional deliberate commitment to invest our time and effort (sow) to the things of the Spirit.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,

  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Reaping a harvest of everlasting life is not an accident, anymore than reaping a harvest of grapes is an accident.


It’s a divine cooperation between each born again Christian and the Holy Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
 
Amen. That’s why I focus on walking according to the Spirit.

This is a lifestyle with many various components.

It is an intentional deliberate commitment to invest our time and effort (sow) to the things of the Spirit.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,

  • but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Reaping a harvest of everlasting life is not an accident, anymore than reaping a harvest of grapes is an accident.


It’s a divine cooperation between each born again Christian and the Holy Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

  • but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Amen - thank you for the encouraging words

Lift us UP together in prayer tonight that we may be given more Grace and Holy Spirit power to die to ourselves and live in Him so that the world only sees that which is of God coming thru us.
 
@civic
no there is no thing as predestination as the calvinists teach let alone double predestination
There is a predestination unto salvation from sin and condemnation, and if that's biblical, and it is indeed, then there's a predestination for those who were not part of the election of grace. Those of the Reformed community of believers reject double predestination, showing their lack of understanding, or their secret bias feelings against this truth. But, I must remind them that God is indebted to no one, and no one deserves His mercy, but that's freely given based upon nothing but the will of God to show mercy to whomsoever He will. If that is too hard for any to accept, then they can tell God when stand before him, but, I would advise you and everyone else including myself, to humbly submit our wisdom and thoughts to the word of God, not to what we think is fair, love and equality for all, but to what we read from the holy scriptures and holy they are, but not our thoughts, reasoning of fairness and equality for all. Who are we, nothing more than worm's of the earth in the sight of the Lord God, who ways and acts are based upon pure righteousness who is the ONLY judge that counts in such matters. civic, look at the world today when a microphone is put before them and then listen to their foolish talk on fairness as these Harvard students and grads, and other folks from our higher educational universities speak on fairness! It would drive a righteous person in sane, if he had to listen to this every single day. What comes from most pulpit is no better, if not worse!

Acts 13:48​

“And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

Jude 1:4​

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Those who denied the only Lord Jesus Christ are preachers of the gospel, preaching another jesus, when they preach against the Lord's atonement as fierce hungry lions, going after those who teach a limited atonement just as the word of God teaches, they fall guilty before this scripture, and others that say the same ~ Jesus Christ gave his life for THE CHURCH not for all men without exception, but all men without distinction, Jews and Gentiles and among these he has a chosen people for whom he died for. This denying of the scriptures teachings on the Lord's death, comes daily from the pulpits around this world, through TV, radios, Christian forums, and all forms of social media.

Ezekiel 18:29​

“Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?”

Isaiah 55:8​

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Proverbs 8:32​

Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.”
 
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I rest my case.

1. You are unteachable
2. You are arrogant
3. You think you have all the answers
4. No one, even if they are right, will convince you to change your view.

people have proven you wrong numerous times.. But since you are blinded to your own pride. You can not see it. so you badger, attack, and do whatever you can to belittle them as lost and having no knowledge.

I can go on and on and on
This is Exactly why I choose, after one, planting a seed, and two, watering a seed, I choose to obey God's Golden Command:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary
to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." (Romans 16:17-18 AV)​

Seems to me MORE obedience would bring about a LOT LESS of these endless ( one forum had 150K
posts in one of these ) threads of puffiness, strife, and vainglory, eh?

Amen.
 
This is Exactly why I choose, after one, planting a seed, and two, watering a seed, I choose to obey God's Golden Command:

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary
to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." (Romans 16:17-18 AV)​

Seems to me MORE obedience would bring about a LOT LESS of these endless ( one forum had 150K
posts in one of these ) threads of puffiness, strife, and vainglory, eh?

Amen.
I have prety much put him im my prayer bin in every chatroom I see him in now..
 
there is a huge difference between disagreement,

and someone trying to push their doctrine on everyone else. and attacking them when they do not bow to the "master" so to speak

No, one side is true and one side is false, that's just the logical overview of the land.

And it depends on how you define "push" and "attack" which are emotionally charged words. Certainly one should not be ungracious, but neither is a strong opinion somehow being rude.

We witness to the lost they are going to hell, but they still have the choice to reject our message. They might call it "pushing" and "attacking" just for speaking the truth boldly, but everyone has the free will to reject the truth.

If I say a person is in sin to believe something, and rejecting the Holy Spirit, at that point, I'll leave it between them and their God, but to not warn a person is to not love them.
 
No, one side is true and one side is false, that's just the logical overview of the land.

And it depends on how you define "push" and "attack" which are emotionally charged words. Certainly one should not be ungracious, but neither is a strong opinion somehow being rude.
The3 person in question not only pushes,. but he attacks.. then he boldly pumps his chest that he knows everything..
We witness to the lost they are going to hell, but they still have the choice to reject our message. They might call it "pushing" and "attacking" just for speaking the truth boldly, but everyone has the free will to reject the truth.
this assumes that person has the correct gospel
If I say a person is in sin to believe something, and rejecting the Holy Spirit, at that point, I'll leave it between them and their God, but to not warn a person is to not love them.
You will leave it to them, not keep pushing, attacking and pounding how great they are and how stupid you are for not listening to him.

He does it in every chatroom he goes into.

enough is enough.

Jesus said wipe the dust off your feet. I did this.
 
You will leave it to them, not keep pushing, attacking and pounding how great they are and how stupid you are for not listening to him.

He does it in every chatroom he goes into.

I've dealt with brightfame52 for over 10 years, I've never found him to be rude or insulting.

He is just under a powerful delusion his position is true, and that can frustrate people.
 
@armylngst



Evidently telling you the truth over and over doesnt give you belief of the Truth. I know what the greek says, its supports what Im saying as well as the english, and the rest of scripture.
Except even earlier you said it didn't. Greek grammar is not the same as English grammar. Why you don't believe salvation is the gift of God is beyond me. (Which is what you get when you keep saying that faith is. That makes salvation of works, because the faith is the gift, right. I mean, God grants faith (the gift as you say), and then obviously, we have to do something with that faith. That is works. And the end result of what comes after faith is salvation. Therefore you push a salvation by works through the faith granted by God.
 
How about wandering away from Christ and becoming lost?

This of course is not someone snatching you out of the Father’s hand, but rather you choosing to walk away from Him.


Does your Theology believe this is possible?


Jesus teaches the reality of this.


What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

Obviously His sheep can become lost.


  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

His sheep who become lost are called sinners.

His sheep who become lost are no longer justified, but must repent just as they did when they were first saved.


Do you agree the lost need salvation?
They don't stay lost. The concept of leaving the 99 to find the one is from the Parable of the Lost Sheep, which is found in Matthew 18:10–14 and Luke 15:3–7. In this parable, the shepherd has 100 sheep, 99 of which are accounted for, and one which is missing. He leaves the 99 sheep to go find that one that is lost.
 
Esau sought to selfishly get back his birthright, not salvation. You are terribly wrong here. God promised to never despise a contrite heart (Psalm 51:17).

The only way monergism works is if God repents for you. If you want to continue believing that then you are out of luck.
Where did you get that strange idea? What happens if you repent and God refuses to listen? You may jump up and down and yell and scream, and all God says is "OK, Esau." What can you do? The fact that God has the final say shows it is not synergistic. All God has to say is... "no". We offended God. We did not offend the world, or the powers over God, given that there are no powers over God. The offense is between us and God. If God says, if you do this or this, then I will do this... you just created a works based salvation.
 
@armylngst



I will stop reading right here with this false accusation, I have never in my life said or even believe Salvation isn't the Gift of God. All of Salvation by Grace through Faith is the Gift of God. Period
Of course you will, so you don't understand where the statement comes from, and by understanding reach a rational conclusion.
 
Where did you get that strange idea? What happens if you repent and God refuses to listen? You may jump up and down and yell and scream, and all God says is "OK, Esau." What can you do? The fact that God has the final say shows it is not synergistic. All God has to say is... "no". We offended God. We did not offend the world, or the powers over God, given that there are no powers over God. The offense is between us and God. If God says, if you do this or this, then I will do this... you just created a works based salvation.
whenever our focus comes off the work of God (even in drawing us to himself and giving us the ability to chose of our free will to receive him and made a child of God. or be like those he came to who did not receive him.

then it is a self based gospel. not a God based Gospel
 
whenever our focus comes off the work of God (even in drawing us to himself and giving us the ability to chose of our free will to receive him and made a child of God. or be like those he came to who did not receive him.

then it is a self based gospel. not a God based Gospel
The thing you need to consider is that why you have said appears to come from a misunderstanding of just who God is. Also of what Jesus has said. The disciples asked Jesus "who then can be saved", after Jesus basically said the young rich ruler would not/could not be saved. [will not enter the kingdom of God]. Jesus said, clearly, without stuttering "With man this is impossible..." FULL STOP. Jesus didn't simply say man can't do it, but that is was impossible. Jesus says nothing more about man in salvation. The rest is about God.

We do not have free will, at least not as those who claim we have a libertarian free will. Our will is, and scripture is clear on this, bound to sin. Paul explained all of this. We are slaves of sin, and such, free in regards to righteousness. That is, we do NOTHING when it comes to righteousness, for righteousness has no claim or hold on us. Solely bound to sin. None righteous, no not one, no one seeks after God. No one. Why? They have all gone their own way. That is, God isn't even in their mind. He isn't part of "their own way."

Back to misunderstanding of God. God is sovereign over the whole universe. God did not thrown everything into a pot, shove it in the oven, and say, "Let's see what comes out". God planned out everything. He is in control of everything. However, the question becomes, just how does that present itself, and how can God do that if we already know everything that is going to happen. Oh wait... we don't... but God does. Like an author writing a book. For a good author, the book... writes itself. So it isn't God and robots, but we are still stuck in a storyline that unfolds as we live what God has already "written" so to speak. It is not at all an easy concept to understand. But the sinful mind would use this to say that God made robots, and use twisted logic which was actually refuted a long time ago by people better than us. Calvin was one. When you read about the people he argued with, and what they believe, they were beyond twisted.

Jesus point in His telling about the rich young ruler is, if God is not invovled, there is no salvation. It doesn't matter what you say or do, it will not happen. There will be something about you, your words being hollow, your heart not being there, etc. So much possibility, except for salvation. The believer does not come to God, God comes to the believer. Ephesians 1 says God has foreordained us (believers) to the adoption of children through Jesus Christ. The focus of the verse is to say that even before we were born, we were adopted children of God through Christ. It was God's choice, and it should be His choice because we sinned against God. He has no responsibility to save anyone. No requirement. He could damn us all and He would still be holy, righteous and pure. However, He promised to save His creation through Eve.
 
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