Excellent Discussion on OSAS

@Jim

Yes, overall I agree with these words, but will add just a little to this. Brother, before we (you and I) were converted the true faith, the only true faith in this world, the rellgion of Jesus Christ, we truly had no ideal just how wicked we were by nature, not even close.

Romans 7:9​

“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”

For I was alive without the law once~ Paul thought himself alive, in a justifying way, before he learned God condemned his lusts. When sin is dead in the sense just given (7:8), then a religious person (like Paul was) thinks himself alive before God, Though Paul had Moses’ Law from birth, he did not grasp the strict prohibition against lust.

But when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died~ The commandment historically came at Sinai, but Paul described his understanding of it. If lust was dead and Paul was alive before he understood, then sin came to life, and he died. It is by hearing and understand the law that we come to see our sins as they truly are according to the strict law of God. (James 1:21-25). As a regenerate child of God, Paul finally after his Damascus road experience begin to see that in his flesh dwelled no good thing, Jim, not one! He added this:
Red, Paul is telling us his personal history of coming to a consciousness of sin (vv.7-11). He is doing this to give us and understanding of what we call the age of accountability. In verses 1-6, Paul described the brothers as being released from the law. That would seem to imply that there was something wrong in the law. Paul now begins to show us that the law is not wrong. He says, "What then shall we say? That the law is sin?" His answer was, "By no means!" He then goes on to point out that without the law, he would have not known sin (v.7). Then he says that without the law, there is no such thing as sin. He says, apart from the law, sin lies dead. Paul has already in Romans 4:15 declared that "where there is no law there is no transgression".

It is important here to understand that Paul is not necessarily talking about the law of Moses, but law systems in general. Remember, again, Paul has already noted in Romans 2 that " Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them." Thus, we see here that sin, by biblical definition, exists only by way of the law. Sin is lawlessness (2 Pet 2:8; 1 John 3:4). All of this is quite in line with Romans 5:13, "sin is not counted where there is no law".

Thus, all of this is in contradistinction to any notion that newborn children sin or are sinners. Moreover, Paul is proclaiming here that until they become knowledgeable and conscious of right and wrong, they do not sin. Sin is not imputed to them. That is clearly mandated by Paul's declaration in Romans 7:9, " I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died".

Until such time in his life that he became consciously aware of the law, he was alive. He was not dead in trespasses and sins. But only through the law, and recognizing it to be law, did sin come alive, and it was only then that he died. It was only at that point in life that Paul became a sinner and needed to be saved.

He then proceeds to explain the stress, the internal anxiousness and perplexity in doing what he knows to be right. We, just like Paul, continue to fight with ourselves to do what we know to be the right thing. Paul then asks the question, "if all that is true, then who can set it right?" Specifically, "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death" (7:24)?

The answer to that very pointed question begins in Chapter 8 to explain that victory over sin comes through the Holy Spirit. The first verse in chapter 8 is one of my favorite verses in the Bible; "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus".
 
Fran, let me ask you this question and answer if you can: Is it an act of faith that justifies? A life of faith? Or only while you have faith? Or what?

Looking forward to your answers.
She can answer for herself, but I could not help but answer you for myself. No, the act of faith does not justify. God and only God justifies. But who does God justify? Paul clearly says that God justifies the one who believes in Him, the one with faith in God; that is who He justifies. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Paul gives this in support of the fact that God justifies the one who believes in Him is not something new. It is the case from the very beginning of time. He uses the example of Abraham to establish that. God justifies the one who believes in him. He has just said that a few verses earlier.

Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
That is Paul speaking about his and the other apostles and prophets divine revelation. The "we" there are the recipients of direct revelation by the Holy Spirits to the men of God, not to the ordinary Christian. If what you say is true, then there would have been no need for the likes of the apostles and prophets. If what you say is true, then the entire chapter 10 of Romans would have been unnecessary.
False thats for all believers.
 
Then why don't all believers believe the exact same thing? Why are there believers who disagree with you. Did the Holy Spirit give them the wrong stuff?
Its for all believers, thats why Paul used the plural pronoun we. Anyone receiving Gods Truth must have the Spirit in order to spiritually understand it. Otherwise we are merely natural men and cant know the things of the Spirit of God, which means the Scriptures, since they are a product of the Mind of the Spirit 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So the Spirit is needed to grasp the mind of the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 ;Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now are the scripture "of the Spirit of God " Yes or no
 
Its for all believers, thats why Paul used the plural pronoun we. Anyone receiving Gods Truth must have the Spirit in order to spiritually understand it. Otherwise we are merely natural men and cant know the things of the Spirit of God, which means the Scriptures, since they are a product of the Mind of the Spirit 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So the Spirit is needed to grasp the mind of the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 ;Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Now are the scripture "of the Spirit of God " Yes or no
You didn't answer my question.

I am a believer. You are a believer. If I have the mind of Christ, then how can you possibly disagree with me?
 
curious minds want to know ☝️
The answer is that the "we" are the apostles and prophets. Neither you nor I am one of those. You do not have the mind of Christ. I do not have the mind of Christ. The Holy Spirit doesn't give either of us answers directly. He gave those answers to the apostles and prophets and they wrote them (some of them anyway) down. It is the Bible.
 
You made some excellent points = Thank You


Let's think on this for a moment = the Jewish people = Romans chapters 9 -11

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

"Ye are severed from Christ, ye who would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace." Gal 5:4

Two points here;
1) severed from Christ
2) fallen from grace

One cannot be severed from what he was never part of nor fall from a place he never was. The logical implication one must be in Christ to be severed from Him and be in grace to fall from it.
 
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