Excellent Discussion on OSAS

You just proved my point

The cross is meaningless to you. You have no power

1. You undermine Christian values. and are basically no better than a jew who crucified Christ. Pumping your chest about how good you are. and praising God your not like the sinner.

2. It is actually you who force rules and not behavior. I preach our behavior becomes like Christ because we are saved. Because we are grateful for the great gift he has bestowed upon us. and because he made us new creatures. You obey to try to stay saved..

3. Authority of God is acknowledged, but not just that, his love and great mercy is acknowledged.

Believe it or not. God has perfect justice. He also has perfect love.

I accept and cherish both. You acknowledge one. but belittle the other.
HOW do I undermine Christian values if all I post is that we are to obey God??

How is God's authority acknowledged when a member states that NOTHING WE DO will cause us to lose our salvation?

Do you not realize how dangerous your theology is??
 
Sorry if the truth hurts sis.

You want to get to God with your works. go for it. God will not accept them.

God accepts the pure water. You can ot add even a small amount of Edit to this water and expect God to drink it as your offering to him

thats pretty much what yuo and those who tarnish the grace of God into legalism and those who tarnish it to licentiousness do.

what's amazing is the licentious would call me a legalist, while you call me licentious.

sometimes we need to remove the specs from our eyes so we can see clearly. sadly to many are stuck in doctrine, and religion and what they have been taught or their church theology. so they can not see what is really being said.

this is proven in here all the time, and no great evidence is it shown that in the arminian vs calvin debate.
I NEVER called you licentious.

What I HAVE stated many times is that your TEACHING is very dangerous.

As, indeed, it is.

God demands obedience.
In the OT
In the NT

In the Mosaic Covenant
In the New Covenant

Obedience includes good works.

As JESUS commanded.

Matthew 25:35-45
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent * that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent * that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
 
Sorry if the truth hurts sis.

You want to get to God with your works. go for it. God will not accept them.

God accepts the pure water. You can ot add even a small amount of Edit to this water and expect God to drink it as your offering to him

thats pretty much what yuo and those who tarnish the grace of God into legalism and those who tarnish it to licentiousness do.

what's amazing is the licentious would call me a legalist, while you call me licentious.

sometimes we need to remove the specs from our eyes so we can see clearly. sadly to many are stuck in doctrine, and religion and what they have been taught or their church theology. so they can not see what is really being said.

this is proven in here all the time, and no great evidence is it shown that in the arminian vs calvin debate.
The above is replying to Isaiah 64:4-7
My post 2852

It is misunderstood by many....
I guess by you too.

What is plainly written in scripture should be plainly accepted.
 
Just as I suspected and you just confirmed it - false gospel alert. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

I fully understand why you don't understand. 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Both you and @Eternally-Grateful are getting into the habit of calling those that do not agree with you the natural man...which would be the unsaved man.

I would ask both of you to cease doing this.

Unless, of course, you believe that doctrine will save.

In which case, I'd be very worried since there are many verses, including by Jesus Himself, that state that works are necessary for salvation.

It is not proper to judge a person's soul.
I would suppose that there's a rule against this.

See Rules:
2
2a
2f
 
HOW do I undermine Christian values if all I post is that we are to obey God??

Or we could also ask…

Who wants us to disobey God?


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

We were warned about this day…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
 
Or we could also ask…

Who wants us to disobey God?


Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

We were warned about this day…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
Great points!
Thanks.
 
HOW do I undermine Christian values if all I post is that we are to obey God??
Because you focus on aboying to save yourself

and reject the obedience of the gospel
How is God's authority acknowledged when a member states that NOTHING WE DO will cause us to lose our salvation?
How is Gods love acknowledged when you claims there is nothing you can do to earn salvation. then contradicts himself by saying there is then something you can do to lose salvation.


Do you not realize how dangerous your theology is??
My theology is christ based

Yours is no different than the pharisees. You the one with the dangerous theology. Your theology has no power. Only boasting in self. Not God
 
Both you and @Eternally-Grateful are getting into the habit of calling those that do not agree with you the natural man...which would be the unsaved man.
this just proves once again you have a calvin focus and can not see beyond that perspective.

neither @mailmandan nor myself has discussed this calvin perspective. nor do we even agree with it. we reject this perspective

I would ask both of you to cease doing this.
We will never cease from stating the word of God. We tried to be nice for months. The time of being nice is done.. you people want to keep falsly accusing us.. You will be called out
Unless, of course, you believe that doctrine will save.
None of us have every said this. again, Your seeing what you want to see.

I would ask you (I have many times) to CEASE from doing this
In which case, I'd be very worried since there are many verses, including by Jesus Himself, that state that works are necessary for salvation.

It is not proper to judge a person's soul.
I would suppose that there's a rule against this.

See Rules:
2
2a
2f
Do please show me the works required in these words of Jesus and paul

the jew thought their works saved them, Jesus apposed them as did Paul. and they would appose anyone who thinks our works can equal what christ did on the cross.



John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN


Titus 1: 2
in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
 
Or we could also ask…

Who wants us to disobey God?
No one here is even hinting that we can disobey God
Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. Genesis 3:4

We were warned about this day…

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1
yawn....
 
No I am not. I am reasoning, just as God says in the Old Testament. Come let us reason together. All this fight from you simply because I said that faith is not THE gift, that SALVATION is the gift of God, as though I should believe that we get to heaven by faith without salvation.
You seem way off track to me. Do you even understand what I stated ?
 
There you go again twisting the word of God to suit your own preconcieved belief ststem

The law is NOT in context in romans 4. Romans was a gentile church. it did not have the law. There was no law in abrahams day.

if you want to twist the word of God to suit your legalism. feel free. But keep it to yourself
Huh? Rom 4 is full of references to the Law. Sounds like you never read Rom 4! Here are just 4 verses from Rom 4 with many references to the Law.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect,
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
Abraham, David, Sarah were mentioned without any introduction! That means that there were knowledgeable people there, Jews. Stop embrassing yourself.
While you twist james and Romans and have them apposed to each other.

I will interpret them in complete harmony.

Abraham was justified in Gen 15. He believed God and God accounted it to him as righteousness.

James is talking about ALL the works Abraham did many years after Abraham was justified with the justification Paul spoke of in Romans 4. (Paul even quoted Gen 15)

The other problem is Abraham was not even perfect.

He commited adultry and his sin still affects the world today

He laughed at God

He was so short of faith and in fear. he offered his wife up as his sister..
So what? We all know nobody's perfect.

As for you, you continue to disregard James 2:24. You refuse to submit to an eye test of James 2:24. Here it is again, one more chance to redeem yourself:

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Again, You want to go to God with fig leaves. feel free. But God already showed us in Genesis that he rejected fig leaves. and with Cain he showed he rejects all works righteousness to try to get to God based on your deeds
Abel's good works were not "fig leaves". He definitely understood the plan of justification which is by faith and by preordained good works. (Rom 2:7, James 2:14-26). How can you possibly be saved without being justified?

Also, you ran away from the fact that Rahab's justifying good works were NOT viewed as "filthy rags" by God according to James 2:25. It's back to your drawing board for you.
 
Just as I suspected and you just confirmed it - false gospel alert. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)
All those verses are perfectly harmonious with verses like:

Rom 2:6-8:
6 who will repay everyone according to his works:
7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

James 2:24-26:
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Looks like you're the one who is propagating the False Gospel.
I fully understand why you don't understand. 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Just because you have no Biblical support
for your "self-attached branch" imaginary idea is no reason for you to insult people.
 
Because you focus on aboying to save yourself
Yes sir.
God DEMANDS that we obey Him.

Not all believe this.
I'm not here to handle this...only to post what scripture states.

Those reading along who may be new to Christianity could decide for themselves whether or not it's necessary to obey God.

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.


Acts 5:29

But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.


1 Peter 1:14

As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,


1 John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.



Luke 6:46

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?


Luke 11:28

But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”


John 14:23

Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.


James 1:22-25

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.


Romans 6:16

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?



and reject the obedience of the gospel

How is Gods love acknowledged when you claims there is nothing you can do to earn salvation. then contradicts himself by saying there is then something you can do to lose salvation.
There is nothing we can do to earn salvation.

AFTER we are saved...
we are required to obey God.

The verses above should suffice.
My theology is christ based

Yours is no different than the pharisees. You the one with the dangerous theology. Your theology has no power. Only boasting in self. Not God
I just posted the verses.
You could interpret them as you desire.
 
The faith vs. works debate often comes up on Cristian forums. There are many who say that a person is saved based on some mixture of faith and works. Biblical Christianity teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from any works we do.

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Romans 3:24

You do not work for a gift or to keep a gift.
 
The faith vs. works debate often comes up on Cristian forums. There are many who say that a person is saved based on some mixture of faith and works. Biblical Christianity teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, apart from any works we do.

and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Romans 3:24

You do not work for a gift or to keep a gift.
Where does Romans 3:24 state that works are not necessary?

Do you believe we are to obey Jesus?

Then what did He mean in

Matthew 25:34:45
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent * that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent * that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'




And what did Jesus mean in



Matthew 5:20
20 "For I say to you that unless * your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
All those verses are perfectly harmonious with verses like:
Flawed hermeneutics.
Rom 2:6-8:
6 who will repay everyone according to his works:
7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,
8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.
In regard to Romans 2:6-8, patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose the condition of our hearts.
James 2:24-26:
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
In regard to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

The Greek word for justified "dikaioo":

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - *fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
Looks like you're the one who is propagating the False Gospel.
Its you who promotes a works-based false ggospel.You teach salvation by faith and works. You said it yourself. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. ✝️
Just because you have no Biblical support
for your "self-attached branch" imaginary idea is no reason for you to insult people.
Project much? Like you never insult anyone. I have Biblical support and I already thoroughly covered this and properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine in post #2,686. Even Greek scholar AT Robertson gets it but you don't.
 
Our works do nothing to earn or maintain salvation. It was the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ that justifies sinners (Romans 3:24). “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, . . . because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16). We begin by faith, and we continue in faith: “Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2–3).

Salvation is by grace, which precludes works. Grace is, by definition, unearned, and Scripture makes it clear that God’s grace in salvation destroys the argument for human effort: “If by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6). “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

God’s requirement for salvation is faith in His Son. One of the grand themes of the Bible is that we are justified, or declared righteous, by faith (Genesis 15:6). Faith is the only means of making sinful human beings able to stand before a holy God. No amount of law-keeping or good works can accomplish it (Titus 3:5). If our works could save us, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians 2:21). Got?
 
Flawed hermeneutics.

In regard to Romans 2:6-8, patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose the condition of our hearts.

In regard to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

The Greek word for justified "dikaioo":

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - *fits the context.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidence for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, “acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was “justified.” He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the believer as righteous. James, however, is using the term to describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Its you who promotes a works-based false ggospel.You teach salvation by faith and works. You said it yourself. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. ✝️

Project much? Like you never insult anyone. I have Biblical support and I already thoroughly covered this and properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine in post #2,686. Even Greek scholar AT Robertson gets it but you don't.
Always with the descriptive notion.

Jesus didn't speak about descriptive anything.
Jesus taught HOW we are to be saved and He NEVER said to ONLY believe in Him.

It would not have taken years for Him to teach the Apostles if it were that simple.

Jesus gave COMMANDS that He EXPECTS us to follow.


Jesus said IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS.

Which commandments would those be??
According to you, there are none.
 
Our works do nothing to earn or maintain salvation. It was the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ that justifies sinners (Romans 3:24). “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, . . .

Works of the Law became obsolete 2 thousand years ago.
because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16). We begin by faith, and we continue in faith: “Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?” (Galatians 3:2–3).

Salvation is by grace, which precludes works. Grace is, by definition, unearned, and Scripture makes it clear that God’s grace in salvation destroys the argument for human effort: “If by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6). “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

God’s requirement for salvation is faith in His Son. One of the grand themes of the Bible is that we are justified, or declared righteous, by faith (Genesis 15:6). Faith is the only means of making sinful human beings able to stand before a holy God. No amount of law-keeping or good works can accomplish it (Titus 3:5). If our works could save us, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians 2:21). Got?
We are declared righteous by faith.

But even Abraham obeyed God to the fullest extent.

So we see that Abraham was saved by faith AND works.

James 2:20-26
20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith
without works is useless?
21 Was not
Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22 You see that faith
was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM
BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a
man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not Rahab
the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For just as the
body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
And Paul said:


Philippians 2:11-12
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 So then, my beloved,
just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
Jesus said:


Luke 6:46
46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?
 
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