Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[brightfame52]

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:31

The devil prevents them from believing because they are lost. That cant happen to the saved person Lk 8:15

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

The honest and good heart is the heart given by God in regeneration.

 

[JLB]

The devil prevents them from believing because they are lost. That cant happen to the saved person Lk 8:15

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

The honest and good heart is the heart given by God in regeneration.

Now you are saying people are already saved before they hear the Gospel.

That’s not what Jesus taught.

Jesus taught they must believe and then be saved.

You are trying to say they were already saved, then they believe. Total Nonsense.

Again they heard the Gospel. The power of Gospel was available to them.

But they didn’t believe the Gospel.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

 

[civic]

Now you are saying people are already saved before they hear the Gospel.

That’s not what Jesus taught.

Jesus taught they must believe and then be saved.

You are trying to say they were already saved, then they believe. Total Nonsense.

Again they heard the Gospel. The power of Gospel was available to them.

But they didn’t believe the Gospel.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Total heresy thanks for exposing it with the truth

 

[brightfame52]

@JLB

Now you are saying people are already saved before they hear the Gospel.

Of course, Christ saved them and the Gospel is the good news of it, its the Gospel of your salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The words " your salvation" are in the original in the genitive case, the word your hymōn is a possessive pronoun, indicating the hearer possess salvation, its theirs, so now they are hearing all about it and its good news and they trust and believe !

Now think, how can it be your salvation if you are lost in your sins still ?

 

[civic]

@JLB



Of course, Christ saved them and the Gospel is the good news of it, its the Gospel of your salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The words " your salvation" are in the original in the genitive case, the word your hymōn is a possessive pronoun, indicating the hearer possess salvation, its theirs, so now they are hearing all about it and its good news and they trust and believe !

Now think, how can it be your salvation if you are lost in your sins still ?

gobblygook

 

[Jim]

@JLB



Of course, Christ saved them and the Gospel is the good news of it, its the Gospel of your salvation Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The words " your salvation" are in the original in the genitive case, the word your hymōn is a possessive pronoun, indicating the hearer possess salvation, its theirs, so now they are hearing all about it and its good news and they trust and believe !

Now think, how can it be your salvation if you are lost in your sins still ?

Since you do not understand Old English, you are misled by your faulty interpretation of that verse.

Ephesians 1:13

(ASV) in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, - in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(DRB) In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation), in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise.

(ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(ISV) You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(NASB) In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(NIV) And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

(NKJV) In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The correct meaning of that verse is clear. The sealing with the Holy Spirit, being born again, occurs AFTER hearing and believing. It is those who hear and believe that are born again. And that is perfectly consistent with the rest of scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

gobblygook

So you dont believe that ? Its clear as the noon day sun to me. Your Salvation is Possessive, its yours when you hear about it.

 

[brightfame52]

Since you do not understand Old English, you are misled by your faulty interpretation of that verse.

Ephesians 1:13

(ASV) in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation, - in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(DRB) In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation), in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise.

(ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(ISV) You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(NASB) In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(NIV) And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

(NKJV) In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The correct meaning of that verse is clear. The sealing with the Holy Spirit, being born again, occurs AFTER hearing and believing. It is those who hear and believe that are born again. And that is perfectly consistent with the rest of scripture.

The Spirit seals the good news of their salvation into their minds and heart, they still had possession of their salvation when they heard and before they believed and before sealed. " your salvation" demands they already possessed salvation

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I am with family in Florida so will not be around much, so no I did not run from anyone

I did hear an interesting teaching in genesis on the way down (a 13 hour trip)

I knew the Cain story and how we are introduced to human Goodtrying to come to God by our works.

But never thought of the Adam And Eve story

Immediately after they sinned. What did they do?

1 they hid
2 the tried to cover themselves with fig leaves
3. They eventually when confronted tried to blame others and not take credit for their own sin

What was God”s reaction?
God gave the gospel
1. To man he said the earth which served you will now curse you and in the end it will devour you (to dust you will return) you will
Leave with nothing. All your hard work. All you gained. You can take nothing.
2 to Satan. He will be destroyed. The woman’s seed will come and Satan will bruise his heal but her son will destroy him
3 as for the major problem now introduced which separated mankind from his God
A. Fig leaves will not work. Man is naked in front of God and his attempt to cover that failed. God showed how man can be covered so his nakedness (sin) is hidden or covered
B an innocent animal had to be killed
C God would use that innocent animals shed blood and skin to cover man’s nakedness (God had to cover us)
D man had to first come to God naked with nothing. And God would cloth them. Or they could be ok in their own fig leaves and reject Gods provisuon
4 we know Adam and Eve repented and Gid covered them
5 we know God had this figurative message if how the woman’s seed would save them. And come to Cain and abel
6 Abel Offered the best of his flock. A huge sacrifice. Cain offered human Gods his works his fig leaves which God rejected

We also see cans reaction. Which is the same as the Jews reaction to Jesus. (Can killed Abel the Jews had Christ killed)

We see the same reaction today which is sad

@Jim @synergy @GodsGrace @mailmandan @civic i hope you read and was as blessed as I was

 

[Jim]

The Spirit seals the good news of their salvation into their minds and heart, they still had possession of their salvation when they heard and before they believed and before sealed. " your salvation" demands they already possessed salvation

Pure poppycock.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

It wasn't the good news that was sealed. It was them.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, .........., were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

When?

Eph 1:13 ........ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, .........

 

[synergy]

I am with family in Florida so will not be around much, so no I did not run from anyone

I did hear an interesting teaching in genesis on the way down (a 13 hour trip)

I knew the Cain story and how we are introduced to human Goodtrying to come to God by our works.

But never thought of the Adam And Eve story

Immediately after they sinned. What did they do?

1 they hid
2 the tried to cover themselves with fig leaves
3. They eventually when confronted tried to blame others and not take credit for their own sin

What was God”s reaction?
God gave the gospel
1. To man he said the earth which served you will now curse you and in the end it will devour you (to dust you will return) you will
Leave with nothing. All your hard work. All you gained. You can take nothing.
2 to Satan. He will be destroyed. The woman’s seed will come and Satan will bruise his heal but her son will destroy him
3 as for the major problem now introduced which separated mankind from his God
A. Fig leaves will not work. Man is naked in front of God and his attempt to cover that failed. God showed how man can be covered so his nakedness (sin) is hidden or covered
B an innocent animal had to be killed
C God would use that innocent animals shed blood and skin to cover man’s nakedness (God had to cover us)
D man had to first come to God naked with nothing. And God would cloth them. Or they could be ok in their own fig leaves and reject Gods provisuon
4 we know Adam and Eve repented and Gid covered them
5 we know God had this figurative message if how the woman’s seed would save them. And come to Cain and abel
6 Abel Offered the best of his flock. A huge sacrifice. Cain offered human Gods his works his fig leaves which God rejected

We also see cans reaction. Which is the same as the Jews reaction to Jesus. (Can killed Abel the Jews had Christ killed)

We see the same reaction today which is sad

@Jim @synergy @GodsGrace @mailmandan @civic i hope you read and was as blessed as I was

Good to hear that you had a safe 13 hours trip to Florida. Have lots of fun there with the family.

Thanks for reminding us of Abel's good works of offering the best of his flocks, a reflection of his solid commitment to and belief in God. That's exactly what we are all called to do. Your post did indeed bless us.

Have Fun in the Sun!
Apply lots of sunscreen!

 

[Jim]

I am with family in Florida so will not be around much, so no I did not run from anyone

I did hear an interesting teaching in genesis on the way down (a 13 hour trip)

I knew the Cain story and how we are introduced to human Goodtrying to come to God by our works.

But never thought of the Adam And Eve story

Immediately after they sinned. What did they do?

1 they hid
2 the tried to cover themselves with fig leaves
3. They eventually when confronted tried to blame others and not take credit for their own sin

What was God”s reaction?
God gave the gospel
1. To man he said the earth which served you will now curse you and in the end it will devour you (to dust you will return) you will
Leave with nothing. All your hard work. All you gained. You can take nothing.
2 to Satan. He will be destroyed. The woman’s seed will come and Satan will bruise his heal but her son will destroy him
3 as for the major problem now introduced which separated mankind from his God
A. Fig leaves will not work. Man is naked in front of God and his attempt to cover that failed. God showed how man can be covered so his nakedness (sin) is hidden or covered
B an innocent animal had to be killed
C God would use that innocent animals shed blood and skin to cover man’s nakedness (God had to cover us)
D man had to first come to God naked with nothing. And God would cloth them. Or they could be ok in their own fig leaves and reject Gods provisuon
4 we know Adam and Eve repented and Gid covered them
5 we know God had this figurative message if how the woman’s seed would save them. And come to Cain and abel
6 Abel Offered the best of his flock. A huge sacrifice. Cain offered human Gods his works his fig leaves which God rejected

We also see cans reaction. Which is the same as the Jews reaction to Jesus. (Can killed Abel the Jews had Christ killed)

We see the same reaction today which is sad

@Jim @synergy @GodsGrace @mailmandan @civic i hope you read and was as blessed as I was

It wasn't the offering that pleased of displeased God. It was the persons, i.e., Abel and Cain respectively, that pleased and displeased God.

Gen 4:6 The LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry, and why has your face fallen?
Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it."

 

[brightfame52]

@Jim

Pure poppycock.

It cant be more clearer, one is saved already when they hear believe and trust the word of Truth, the Gospel of their salvation, and upon hearing and believing they were sealed by the Spirit. They are eternally secure and cannot fall away from the truth they've been sealed with.

Sealed doesnt mean one gets saved or regenerated, its the word sphragizō:
to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal

1. for security: from Satan

respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his,

 

[Jim]

@Jim



It cant be more clearer, one is saved already when they hear believe and trust the word of Truth, the Gospel of their salvation, and upon hearing and believing they were sealed by the Spirit. They are eternally secure and cannot fall away from the truth they've been sealed with.

Sealed doesnt mean one gets saved or regenerated, its the word sphragizō:
to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal

1. for security: from Satan

respecting God, who by the gift of the Holy Spirit indicates who are his,

God doesn't set His seal upon the unregenerated.

 

[MTMattie]

@Jim

It cant be more clearer, one is saved already when they hear believe and trust the word of Truth, the Gospel of their salvation, and upon hearing and believing they were sealed by the Spirit. They are eternally secure and cannot fall away from the truth they've been sealed with.

God doesn't set His seal upon the unregenerated.

With all due respect @Jim .

Do you really think that someone who has heard, and believed(faith) about their salvation are still unregenerated?

We know Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
We do walk by faith and not by sight.

Just curious.

 

[Dizerner]

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God (Heb. 3:12 NKJ)

 

[Jim]

With all due respect @Jim .

Do you really think that someone who has heard, and believed(faith) about their salvation are still unregenerated?

We know Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
We do walk by faith and not by sight.

Just curious.

Yes, of course. But @brightfame52 is saying that Ephesians 1:13 says that one is not regenerated when one hears and believes, but rather must have been regenerated before one hears and is regenerated. Ephesians says that WHEN you heard the word of truth and believed in Him, you were regenerated. In other words, it is the one who hears the word of truth and believed in Jesus that is regenerated. Faith results in God regenerating. Not vice versa as @brightfame52 would have it.

 

[MTMattie]

Yes, of course. But @brightfame52 is saying that Ephesians 1:13 says that one is not regenerated when one hears and believes, but rather must have been regenerated before one hears and is regenerated. Ephesians says that WHEN you heard the word of truth and believed in Him, you were regenerated. In other words, it is the one who hears the word of truth and believed in Jesus that is regenerated. Faith results in God regenerating. Not vice versa as @brightfame52 would have it.

Ok., thanks. That is clear.

I believe @brightfame52 is predestined in beliefs.... I honestly do not remember, but is what I have come to understand...
and you and I are not.

 

[Ozias]

So, God regenerates us but after He does, we can un-regenerate ourselves. Hum very interesting.

Regenerated means to effect a complete moral reform in, re-create, reconstitute, or make over, especially in a better form or condition, or to revive or produce anew. It can also mean to be restored to a better, higher, or more worthy state.

 

[Blessed]

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.
7 [And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.
Titus 3:5–7.

Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things; we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts; now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Ephesians 2:1, 8). God’s great love and free gift, His rich grace and abundant mercy, are the cause of the rebirth. The mighty power of God—the power that raised Christ from the dead—is displayed in the regeneration and conversion of sinners (Ephesians 1:19–20).

Got Questions Ministries