Excellent Discussion on OSAS

Again what you are saying is senseless,

It seems that you believe the words of Jesus Christ are senseless.

Sad.


The Condition for being saved is to believe.


  • lest they should believe and be saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved
. Luke 8:12

Believe = saved


The preaching of the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.


Only those who believe are saved.


These by the wayside heard the word of salvation, but didn’t believe, so they were not saved.
 
Christ gave us a vivid illustration about OSAS:

A certain man had two sons; and the younger of them said to his father, “Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.”
—Luke 15:11–12

With those words Jesus had His audience’s undivided attention. From what we understand of first–century Jewish culture, no son with any respect at all for his father would dare demand his share of the inheritance. It was customary for the father to choose the time for the division of the inheritance. To make things worse, the younger son was making the request. What he did was unthinkable!
Jesus continued,

And he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living.
—Luke 15:12–13

Not only did he demand his share of the inheritance, the younger son left town with it. Apparently, he had no concern for his father’s welfare. He was concerned about only himself. So he took the money, went to a distant country, and partied it all away.
No doubt Jesus’ listeners were all rehearsing in their minds what they thought the disrespectful brat deserved. How dare he take such a large portion of his father’s hard–earned estate and throw it away! According to the law, a son who cursed his father or was rebellious and stubborn was to be put to death (see Lev. 20:9; Deut. 21:18–21). The death penalty was the most likely verdict reached by many who listened that day.
But then the story took a surprising turn:

Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be in need. And he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he was longing to fill his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. —Luke 15:14–16

The crowd must have become almost nauseous as Jesus described the condition in which the boy found himself. The Pharisees would not even go near swine, much less feed them. By their definition, the young man was hopelessly ceremonially unclean. That is, he would probably never get clean enough to enter the temple and offer sacrifices. And to think he would even consider eating with the pigs. To them, he had gone over the edge, but then, he deserved it.
At the same time, however, many who stood there that day could relate to the story of the prodigal son. They had abandoned their heavenly Father. Like the lad in the story, they were in situations that caused them to be alienated from the religious community. By the practiced standard of the day, they were unacceptable to God. They listened carefully as Jesus went on,

But when he came to his senses, he said, “How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.’ ” And he got up and came to his father.
—Luke 15:17–20

I imagine everyone who heard Jesus that day had an opinion about what the father should say or do when the boy began his speech. At the same time, I doubt any of them would have ended the parable the way Jesus did:

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him, and kissed him.
—Luke 15:20

The Pharisees must have cringed at the thought of embracing someone who had spent time feeding swine. Jesus then added,

And the son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.” But the father said to his slaves, “Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.” —Luke 15:21–24

A Worst Case Scenario

Culturally speaking, what Jesus described in the parable was a worst case scenario. The boy could not have been more disrespectful. He could not have been any more insensitive. And he certainly could not have been a greater embarrassment to the family.
No one would have blamed the father if he had refused to allow the boy to join up as one of his hired men. The son didn’t deserve a second chance, and he knew it. He recognized how foolish it would be to return with the notion of being allowed back into the family. That was not even a consideration. In his mind, he had forfeited all rights to sonship. He was of the conviction that by abandoning his father and wasting his inheritance, he had relinquished his position in the family.

Once a Son, Always a Son

His father, however, did not see things that way at all. In his mind, once a son, always a son. The father’s first emotion as he saw the son returning wasn’t anger. It wasn’t even disappointment. He felt compassion for him. Why? Because the young man was his son!

The father said: “This son of mine was dead and has come to life again” (Luke 15:24). He did not say, “This was my son, and now he is my son again.” On the contrary, there is no hint that the relationship was ever broken, only the fellowship. By “dead” Jesus meant “separated.” That was clearly a figure of speech since the son did not physically die in the parable.

Christ’s next words have been used by some to argue that salvation can be lost. He went on to say, “He was lost, and has been found” (v. 24). To say that “lost” and “found” refer to eternal salvation is to assume that they are being used figuratively. But there is no evidence for such a use from the immediate context. The son was literally lost. That is, the father did not know where he was. When the son returned, he was found.

The parables of Jesus / christianbiblereference.org
 
I recommend working through this thread.

It debunks almost all OSAS arguments and shows the overwhelming testimony of Scripture that the warnings are real.
 
Christ gave us a vivid illustration about OSAS:

A certain man had two sons; and the younger of them said to his father, “Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.”
—Luke 15:11–12

With those words Jesus had His audience’s undivided attention. From what we understand of first–century Jewish culture, no son with any respect at all for his father would dare demand his share of the inheritance. It was customary for the father to choose the time for the division of the inheritance. To make things worse, the younger son was making the request. What he did was unthinkable!
Jesus continued,

And he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living.
—Luke 15:12–13

Not only did he demand his share of the inheritance, the younger son left town with it. Apparently, he had no concern for his father’s welfare. He was concerned about only himself. So he took the money, went to a distant country, and partied it all away.
No doubt Jesus’ listeners were all rehearsing in their minds what they thought the disrespectful brat deserved. How dare he take such a large portion of his father’s hard–earned estate and throw it away! According to the law, a son who cursed his father or was rebellious and stubborn was to be put to death (see Lev. 20:9; Deut. 21:18–21). The death penalty was the most likely verdict reached by many who listened that day.
But then the story took a surprising turn:

Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be in need. And he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he was longing to fill his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. —Luke 15:14–16

The crowd must have become almost nauseous as Jesus described the condition in which the boy found himself. The Pharisees would not even go near swine, much less feed them. By their definition, the young man was hopelessly ceremonially unclean. That is, he would probably never get clean enough to enter the temple and offer sacrifices. And to think he would even consider eating with the pigs. To them, he had gone over the edge, but then, he deserved it.
At the same time, however, many who stood there that day could relate to the story of the prodigal son. They had abandoned their heavenly Father. Like the lad in the story, they were in situations that caused them to be alienated from the religious community. By the practiced standard of the day, they were unacceptable to God. They listened carefully as Jesus went on,

But when he came to his senses, he said, “How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.’ ” And he got up and came to his father.
—Luke 15:17–20

I imagine everyone who heard Jesus that day had an opinion about what the father should say or do when the boy began his speech. At the same time, I doubt any of them would have ended the parable the way Jesus did:

But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him, and kissed him.
—Luke 15:20

The Pharisees must have cringed at the thought of embracing someone who had spent time feeding swine. Jesus then added,

And the son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.” But the father said to his slaves, “Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.” —Luke 15:21–24

A Worst Case Scenario

Culturally speaking, what Jesus described in the parable was a worst case scenario. The boy could not have been more disrespectful. He could not have been any more insensitive. And he certainly could not have been a greater embarrassment to the family.
No one would have blamed the father if he had refused to allow the boy to join up as one of his hired men. The son didn’t deserve a second chance, and he knew it. He recognized how foolish it would be to return with the notion of being allowed back into the family. That was not even a consideration. In his mind, he had forfeited all rights to sonship. He was of the conviction that by abandoning his father and wasting his inheritance, he had relinquished his position in the family.

Once a Son, Always a Son

His father, however, did not see things that way at all. In his mind, once a son, always a son. The father’s first emotion as he saw the son returning wasn’t anger. It wasn’t even disappointment. He felt compassion for him. Why? Because the young man was his son!

The father said: “This son of mine was dead and has come to life again” (Luke 15:24). He did not say, “This was my son, and now he is my son again.” On the contrary, there is no hint that the relationship was ever broken, only the fellowship. By “dead” Jesus meant “separated.” That was clearly a figure of speech since the son did not physically die in the parable.

Christ’s next words have been used by some to argue that salvation can be lost. He went on to say, “He was lost, and has been found” (v. 24). To say that “lost” and “found” refer to eternal salvation is to assume that they are being used figuratively. But there is no evidence for such a use from the immediate context. The son was literally lost. That is, the father did not know where he was. When the son returned, he was found.

The parables of Jesus / christianbiblereference.org
That parable proves just the opposite of OSAS. It describes one that was a son, and then the son was lost, and then a son once again. It shows that one can be saved and then lost. And it shows that one who became lost can be found again. That is similar to Romans 11 where branches of the tree, broken off because of unbelief, can be grafted back in (vv. 20-24).
 
The point of 'Parable of the prodigal son' was to illustrate God’s attitude toward sinners, Christ had the perfect opportunity to explain how one could lose his or her place in the family of God—if such were possible. That is especially true when we think about the son in this parable. The parallel is to obvious to miss. The father is the heavenly Father, and the son represents sinners of all kinds.

If ever there was a son who deserved to be disowned, it was the son in the parable. If ever there was a set of circumstances within a family that called for extreme action, that was it. Yet there was no hint of rejection on the part of the Heavenly Father. The father in the story was not portrayed as one battling in his heart over what to do with his sorry son.

Jesus did not depict the heavenly Father as One waiting to be asked for permission to reenter the family. Instead He was described as One who felt compassion for the returning sinner, One who at no time viewed the son as anything less than that—a son. He was pictured as One who took immediate action to restore His wandering child to a place of honor and dignity. He demanded no explanation; no apology; nothing. There was no probationary period, just acceptance and joy
 
The point of 'Parable of the prodigal son' was to illustrate God’s attitude toward sinners, Christ had the perfect opportunity to explain how one could lose his or her place in the family of God—if such were possible. That is especially true when we think about the son in this parable. The parallel is to obvious to miss. The father is the heavenly Father, and the son represents sinners of all kinds.

If ever there was a son who deserved to be disowned, it was the son in the parable. If ever there was a set of circumstances within a family that called for extreme action, that was it. Yet there was no hint of rejection on the part of the Heavenly Father. The father in the story was not portrayed as one battling in his heart over what to do with his sorry son.

Jesus did not depict the heavenly Father as One waiting to be asked for permission to reenter the family. Instead He was described as One who felt compassion for the returning sinner, One who at no time viewed the son as anything less than that—a son. He was pictured as One who took immediate action to restore His wandering child to a place of honor and dignity. He demanded no explanation; no apology; nothing. There was no probationary period, just acceptance and joy
It shows a number of things, but not OSAS.
 
The importance of the parable as it concerns OSAS is that even when he was away living his life of sin, the prodigal never stopped being his father’s son. It’s an argument against the notion that believers can walk away from their connection to God. When we are born again we literally become one of God’s children (John 1:12-13).

At that time God adopts us into His family in the same sense that an earthly father adopts a child. It’s a legally binding transaction that cannot be reversed and gives us the full right of “sonship”. This is proven by Paul’s statement that we are not only His children but also His heirs (Galatians 4:4-7). Only children with legal standing can be heirs to their father’s estate.

The prodigal went through a period of rebellion and left his father’s house but there was nothing he could do to sever his connection to his father. He could not stop being his father’s son. Once we are born again the same restriction applies to us. In 2 Cor. 1:21-22 Paul wrote that God has set his seal of ownership on us and put His spirit in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing this.

Grace thru Faith​

 
The importance of the parable as it concerns OSAS is that even when he was away living his life of sin, the prodigal never stopped being his father’s son. It’s an argument against the notion that believers can walk away from their connection to God. When we are born again we literally become one of God’s children (John 1:12-13).

At that time God adopts us into His family in the same sense that an earthly father adopts a child. It’s a legally binding transaction that cannot be reversed and gives us the full right of “sonship”. This is proven by Paul’s statement that we are not only His children but also His heirs (Galatians 4:4-7). Only children with legal standing can be heirs to their father’s estate.

The prodigal went through a period of rebellion and left his father’s house but there was nothing he could do to sever his connection to his father. He could not stop being his father’s son. Once we are born again the same restriction applies to us. In 2 Cor. 1:21-22 Paul wrote that God has set his seal of ownership on us and put His spirit in our hearts as a deposit guaranteeing this.

Grace thru Faith​

But he did walk away.
 
Christ’s next words have been used by some to argue that salvation can be lost. He went on to say, “He was lost, and has been found” (v. 24). To say that “lost” and “found” refer to eternal salvation is to assume that they are being used figuratively. But there is no evidence for such a use from the immediate context. The son was literally lost. That is, the father did not know where he was. When the son returned, he was found.

Amen when the son returned he was found; alive again.

Was the son physically dead?

No the son was spiritually dead, just as a sinner is before they are saved.

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found. Luke 15:32


Do the lost need salvation?
 
@JLB

The Condition for being saved is to believe.

Thats false, no scripture ever stated that. Salvation is conditioned on the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and He is the Saviour, God gave Him that responsibility to save His People from their sins. Both Faith/Repentance are given by Him when He saves a person, so they shall believe in Him that saved them.
 
God does not give warnings for decoration.

A warning with no possibility of happening is a sham, a dishonesty, and God is a God of honesty.

Let us respect God's Word and God's integrity in taking heed.
Please read a little more carefully what I said @Dizerner. I never said “a warning with no possibility of happening.” I said that the Elect probably will not be deceived and will not commit the great apostasy of the end times. This APOSTASY will most certainly happen. It is written.

Matthew 24:22-25 (NKJV) 22 “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here [is] the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe [it.] 24 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 “See, I have told you beforehand.
 
God does not give warnings for decoration.

A warning with no possibility of happening is a sham, a dishonesty, and God is a God of honesty.

Let us respect God's Word and God's integrity in taking heed.
The warnings that God gives the elect are for their growth in Grace and instruction, they're beneficial to the elect, a way of life and blessing Heb 12:5-11

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Prov 6:23

23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
The word instruction is the hebrew word muwcar:

Word Origin: [from H3256 (יָסַר - chasten)]

1. (properly) chastisement
2. (figuratively) reproof, warning or instruction
3. also restraint

Warnings to the regenerated child of God are means of God to convey to them do right grace !
 
Warnings to the regenerated child of God are means of God to convey to them do right grace !

When can use our free will while not thinking we are using our free will.

You just keep heeding the warnings like a good elect person.
 
Please read a little more carefully what I said @Dizerner. I never said “a warning with no possibility of happening.” I said that the Elect probably will not be deceived and will not commit the great apostasy of the end times. This APOSTASY will most certainly happen. It is written.

Matthew 24:22-25 (NKJV) 22 “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here [is] the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe [it.] 24 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 “See, I have told you beforehand.
The elect can never be finally deceived from the truth. They are born deceived by nature just as Paul was and other believers Titus 3:3

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient[unbelief], deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But God will undeceive them and bring them under the belief of the Truth by a powerful work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth is part of their salvation experience
 
When can use our free will while not thinking we are using our free will.

You just keep heeding the warnings like a good elect person.
I dont know what you talking about. Im saying God uses warnings and instruction for His Children to guide them in the ways of Grace. Not so for the wicked, He gives them warnings for the hardening of their hearts and fitting them for destruction. Like Pharoah, all the warnings God gave him was so that he would use his freewill and disobey so God can justly destroy him for the wickedness he used his freewill to disobey with. Thats how God deals with all the non elect.
 
The point is, as long as you heed the warnings, we end up in the same place eventually.
I still dont know what you talking about. God warns the wicked to strengthen them in their wickedness to destroy them, but yet to the righteous, warnings are blessings and promote their perseverance
 
Yes, upon believing in Jesus Christ (faith) …

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

selah
§Right.
First we have faith...
then
we are saved.

We are saved by faith.....
faith must then come first.

All by §God's grace, of course.
Nothing happens without God's grace.
 
@JLB



Thats false, no scripture ever stated that. Salvation is conditioned on the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ and He is the Saviour, God gave Him that responsibility to save His People from their sins. Both Faith/Repentance are given by Him when He saves a person, so they shall believe in Him that saved them.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luke 8:12

  • lest they should believe and be saved.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:31
 
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