Because, apparently, they side with Satan, not God. Also perhaps, because we have never been told of any opportunity given them by God for them to repent.
Excellent Discussion on OSAS
- Thread starter civic
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If it’s by grace alone then there would be no reason for faith.
If it’s by faith alone there would be no reason for grace.
Is believing anywhere in your “theology”?
The work that we have to do from God is believe.
God certainly doesn’t do the believing for us.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
It say whoever believes, not whoever God does the believing for.
Blessed
Active Member
Since they believe Satan and chose to follow him in the rebellion in heaven Satan must have them thinking they are on the winning side. But he is the father of lies, fallen angels are not given an opportunity to repent because God's plan of redemption is specifically for humanity, not angels. Satan and the fallen angels made a definitive choice to rebel against God, resulting in their immediate judgment and eternal separation from Him.
brightfame52
Active Member
Okay, thats what I thought you believed. God's power and Grace causes the believing. The elect believe according to Gods Power Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
brightfame52
Active Member
Now you see what we think about your doctrine.
Your doctrine has God doing the believing for us, instead of the person doing the believing and being saved.
The Condition for being saved is to believe.
- lest they should believe and be saved.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
Believe = saved
@Dizerner
Here are one of many places, where folks who do not accept/believe the truth of the scriptures, that God's gifts are without repentance; righteous Lot being a perfect example of this truth, even though much of his life was what we would call, carnal living, certainly not living after the Spirit, not even close to Abraham's, and even Sarah, that we can see. His life bear not even enough to make it to Matthew 13:23 level.
Concerning the inner man, or the new man, that which is born of God, is that which has eternal life, not the old man Adam! The body of sin and death. Listen carefully as I think you do, based on what I have read from many of your posit.
Dizerner, this is the man that has eternal life, and this man cannot sin, impossible. Now, if any man is born of the Spirit of God, he will manifest this birth, by overall living a righteous life, more so inwardly by abstaining from sin by not allowing lust to rule his spirit, etc., though at times his flesh wins the best of him, since after all, we still live in this body OF SIN and death.
Righteous Lot (the only true way of even knowing Lot was indeed righteous) judged the sin of Sodomy as a very wicked sin, an unnatural sin against nature and God. Lot's inward man made this judgment, not his flesh, for in his flesh (all men, including you and me) dwells every sin under heaven, and if God would leave us to ourselves, we would be no different from the men of Sodom. If any think otherwise, then they are ignorant of the sinful flesh of man according to God's testimony, and truly us living in the flesh should understand this if honest with ourselves. We are "not" like Hazael who did not know just how wicked he is by nature, having the falling image of Adam, which image is the devil himself!
Yes indeed he was that and more! God used the cruel Hazael to punish the nation of Israel for her wickedness. During the entire reigns of Joab and Jehoahaz of Israel, Hazael and his son oppressed Israel. The reason was the evil that Israel pursued (2 Kings 13:2–3). Hazael’s oppression was so severe that “nothing had been left of the army . . . except fifty horsemen, ten chariots and ten thousand foot soldiers, for the king of Aram had destroyed the rest and made them like the dust at threshing time” (2 Kings 13:7). Eventually, King Jehoahaz sought the Lord’s favor, and “the Lord provided a deliverer for Israel, and they escaped from the power of Aram” (2 Kings 13:5). This prophecy was fulfilled when Jehoash was able to recapture the towns that Hazael had taken from Israel (verse 25).
I'll get to your posit to me soon.
I'm only addressing this because @civic has already addressed this to whom you posted.
Here are one of many places, where folks who do not accept/believe the truth of the scriptures, that God's gifts are without repentance; righteous Lot being a perfect example of this truth, even though much of his life was what we would call, carnal living, certainly not living after the Spirit, not even close to Abraham's, and even Sarah, that we can see. His life bear not even enough to make it to Matthew 13:23 level.
Concerning the inner man, or the new man, that which is born of God, is that which has eternal life, not the old man Adam! The body of sin and death. Listen carefully as I think you do, based on what I have read from many of your posit.
1st John 3:9
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”Dizerner, this is the man that has eternal life, and this man cannot sin, impossible. Now, if any man is born of the Spirit of God, he will manifest this birth, by overall living a righteous life, more so inwardly by abstaining from sin by not allowing lust to rule his spirit, etc., though at times his flesh wins the best of him, since after all, we still live in this body OF SIN and death.
Genesis 19:7
“And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.”Righteous Lot (the only true way of even knowing Lot was indeed righteous) judged the sin of Sodomy as a very wicked sin, an unnatural sin against nature and God. Lot's inward man made this judgment, not his flesh, for in his flesh (all men, including you and me) dwells every sin under heaven, and if God would leave us to ourselves, we would be no different from the men of Sodom. If any think otherwise, then they are ignorant of the sinful flesh of man according to God's testimony, and truly us living in the flesh should understand this if honest with ourselves. We are "not" like Hazael who did not know just how wicked he is by nature, having the falling image of Adam, which image is the devil himself!
2nd Kings 8:12,13
“And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child. And Hazael said, But what, is thy servant a dog, that he should do this great thing? And Elisha answered, The LORD hath shewed me that thou shalt be king over Syria.”Yes indeed he was that and more! God used the cruel Hazael to punish the nation of Israel for her wickedness. During the entire reigns of Joab and Jehoahaz of Israel, Hazael and his son oppressed Israel. The reason was the evil that Israel pursued (2 Kings 13:2–3). Hazael’s oppression was so severe that “nothing had been left of the army . . . except fifty horsemen, ten chariots and ten thousand foot soldiers, for the king of Aram had destroyed the rest and made them like the dust at threshing time” (2 Kings 13:7). Eventually, King Jehoahaz sought the Lord’s favor, and “the Lord provided a deliverer for Israel, and they escaped from the power of Aram” (2 Kings 13:5). This prophecy was fulfilled when Jehoash was able to recapture the towns that Hazael had taken from Israel (verse 25).
I'll get to your posit to me soon.
GodsGrace
Active Member
Yes. NYC.
Dizerner
Active Member
Gross exegesis twisting the meaning out of all context to fit the presupposed sacred cow doctrines of monergism.
That's not what it means—it does not mean, "no amount of sin forfeits salvation," and that idea is foreign to both OT & NT.
God's gifts—were given freely, and that is why a nation of Israel going to HELL still had the Bible and the Messiah.
But anyone can throw a gift in the garbage can.
Stop misrepresenting the position and moving the goal posts.
Every time some Free Gracer or Calvinist gets upset at the thought of God's judgment on apostasy, they pull out the old straw man caricature of sinless perfection.
God placing conditions upon salvation does not mean that perfection is one of them—that's equivocation, switching one position for another that's easier to attack.
Carnal Christians can go to heaven, but they still must bear SOME fruit and ACCEPT the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
Just as Lot was tormented in his soul for the sin he saw around him and urged the men to stop.
Lot was sinful—but not fruitless.
If you believe that Paul and James opposed each other, that is sure indication that you do not understand what one of them, perhaps both, are saying. Nothing that we have from Paul stands against anything that we have from James and vice versa.
brightfame52
Active Member
@civic
The apostolic testimony is the grace causes the elect to believe Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Now the word through is the prep dia and means:
So the writer of Acts gives believing to be caused by grace, but you to the person who believed
The apostolic testimony is the grace causes the elect to believe Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: Now the word through is the prep dia and means:
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
- by reason of
- on account of
- because of for this reason
- therefore
- Its used in the causal sense
So the writer of Acts gives believing to be caused by grace, but you to the person who believed
synergy
Active Member
Correct. Maybe @Eternally-Grateful will listen to you. He's "done with" me when I called him out on his campaign against the Bible verses I posted. His accusations against those verses are that they "cause paul and james to appose each other". He's not even against rewriting verses as he has done that before with James 2:14b (changing "the Faith" to "that Faith"). We should all be aware of people who are willing to rewrite scripture so that it conforms to their erroneous presuppositions.
Wrong! Belief through grace does not imply that grace causes belief. It is through grace that we have the writings of the apostles and prophets that produced the scriptures. In that we have the opportunity to "hear" the word of Christ and thus believe (Rom 10:17).
You inject your false deterministic philosophy into so much of your posts here. The words “through grace” may either refer to Apollos, or to the Christians who had believed. If to him, it means that he was enabled by grace to strengthen the brethren there; if to them, it means that they had been led to believe by the grace or favor of God. In either sense it does not mean that believing is caused by grace, but rather that the ability to believe is provided for us by the grace of God. The natural ability to believe is an integral feature of God's creation of mankind.
synergy
Active Member
You're not listening to what I said. We all believe that the Atonement is fully complete and fully accomplished, with no need to add anything to it. Do you understand?
As for salvation, there's still the matter of belief and repentance. You're confusing the Atonement with our Salvation and making a mess of things.
What is "eternal security"?
We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith.
civic
Active Member
Amazing how it all ties together perfectly when doctrine lines up with Gods character.
Perfectly in Sync, its synergistic, harmonious. Similar threads
