Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Eternally-Grateful]

By your definition of grace, that is correct.

But I will respect people's labels even when they are inconsistent.

By the defenition that grace is given by Gods mercy and can not be earned by works?

By Gods defenition

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK

(AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE


Yeah I will stick with Gods defenition

 

[JLB]

and who obey him? Who overcomes the world?

1 John 3: 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

if a person who is born of God can not live in sin, by defenition, they obey him

1 John 5:4-5
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

its not our obedience that overcomes, ITS OUR FAITH. it BECAUSE we were BORN OF GOD.

God changes us.. I pray soon you and those like you realise this, start trusting god and stop trusting self

Those who obey Him will receive eternal life.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 5:9


Everyone must choose to obey Him, or obey unrighteousness.


We accomplished by the power of the Spirit within us, not by self.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I think I had a stroke reading this, no idea what you meant by it.

legalists usually do when they hear the fact that God changes us, we do not change ourselves.

They usually do when they hear God chastens those who are his..

 

[JLB]

legalists usually do when they hear the fact that God changes us, we do not change ourselves.

Do you agree that those who are changed have the God given ability to obey Him?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Those who obey Him will receive eternal life.

Yes. Not because they obey him, but because they were saved, made new creatures. BORN OF GOD

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 5:9


Everyone must choose to obey Him, or obey unrighteousness.


We accomplished by the power of the Spirit within us, not by self.

same author said this

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Being sanctified is learning obedience and practicing obedience.

I give God the glory. you want to take it for yourself feel free..

Good luck turning your obedience in to God as payment for sin.. You will not like his answer.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Do you agree that those who are changed have the God given ability to obey Him?

more than just the ability. it becomes their nature. they are new creatures. for good works.. it is their very nature to obey as apposed to disobey.. which is vomit to them.. since they are no longer dogs, they no longer like their vomit

God sanctified us,

 

[Thaddeus]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


God loves us deeply as He loves all the people of the world.


Do you believe that?

I do.

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”
—MATTHEW 22:37

Being a Christian is not about doing all the right things, following a set of rules, or adhering to certain rituals. Being a Christian is a matter of the heart. It is all about a relationship with the God of the universe and the Creator of all things. Relationship with God is an intimate, up-close-and-personal relationship with the One who knows me most—and loves me still.

 

[Jim]

so you can overpower God

God it

we must be baptized

and we can overpower God and walk away as an antichrist. even though John said those people were never of us

So once you are saved, you loose your free will

so that is what "God it" means

 

[Dizerner]

legalists usually do when they hear the fact that God changes us, we do not change ourselves.

They usually do when they hear God chastens those who are his..

I hope you step back and realize everything you said makes zero sense.

You are being incoherent at this point so I will step away.

 

[Dizerner]

Being a Christian is not about doing all the right things

Would you consider yourself a Universalist?

We must realize the God of the Bible does have a standard of morality he requires, and repentance is not optional.

 

[Thaddeus]

As believers, we will never be judged for our sins. That is a settled issue. It is so settled in the mind of God that at the moment of our salvation, knowing full and well all the sins we were yet to commit, God adopted us into His family.

Adopting us into His family was not simply a courtesy God was extending to us poor wretched sinners. It was His goal from the very beginning. And not just from our very beginning, but from the beginning of time, as these verses make plain:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will. Ephesians 1:3–5,

God chose to adopt us as His child before the foundation of the world. Why? For one reason and one reason only: He wanted to. That is what Paul means by the phrase, “according to the kind intention of His will.” No one forced Him. God wanted us as His child. God did not send Christ to die because He felt sorry for us. He sacrificed His only begotten Son so that He could make us His adopted child.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So once you are saved, you loose your free will

so that is what "God it" means

Nah,

I have free will

I am just not foolish enough to think I can earn grace by any works
I fully repented and fully understand apart from Grace, I have no hope. no purpose in life. no anything. I am lost and alone
I am not foolish enough to have any desire to go back to where I came, because I understood where I was. and I have experienced Gods love, and he never fails me (although I fail myself numerous times)

your anti calvinist strawman is useless here.. and will nto support your legalism

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I hope you step back and realize everything you said makes zero sense.

You are being incoherent at this point so I will step away.

its ok

One day you will understand, and stop hiding behind it. because admitting I am write will prove you wrong

I just pray it is before it is too late

 

[Dizerner]

admitting I am write will prove you wrong

I am not talking about your theological position here, you are literally not being coherent in your interaction.

Although, I am 100% certain your theological position is deception, and I don't say that lightly.

 

[civic]

I do.

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”
—MATTHEW 22:37

Being a Christian is not about doing all the right things, following a set of rules, or adhering to certain rituals. Being a Christian is a matter of the heart. It is all about a relationship with the God of the universe and the Creator of all things. Relationship with God is an intimate, up-close-and-personal relationship with the One who knows me most—and loves me still.

yes having a relationship with God makes one want and desire to obey.

 

[Jim]

Nah,

I have free will

I am just not foolish enough to think I can earn grace by any works
I fully repented and fully understand apart from Grace, I have no hope. no purpose in life. no anything. I am lost and alone
I am not foolish enough to have any desire to go back to where I came, because I understood where I was. and I have experienced Gods love, and he never fails me (although I fail myself numerous times)

your anti calvinist strawman is useless here.. and will nto support your legalism

You may not be foolish enough, but others might.

 

[Dizerner]

You may not be foolish enough, but others might.

"Free Grace" ideas are exactly why we currently have things like Christian porn stars.

This is a real thing—I am not making this up.

If we preached the Scripture, we would know this could not possibly be acceptable unto salvation.

 

[synergy]

Nah,

I have free will

I am just not foolish enough to think I can earn grace by any works
I fully repented and fully understand apart from Grace, I have no hope. no purpose in life. no anything. I am lost and alone
I am not foolish enough to have any desire to go back to where I came, because I understood where I was. and I have experienced Gods love, and he never fails me (although I fail myself numerous times)

your anti calvinist strawman is useless here.. and will nto support your legalism

You are once again promoting a false dichotomy between grace and obedience. That's because your mindset is fixed on monergism, the main idol of calvinism.

God's Grace, by definition, encompasses everything God has graced us with which includes our minds, hearts, and volition. Being graced with volition means we ourselves need to put it to good use by obeying God. That's only possible through the Holy Spirit, but we still have to obey God. We must believe and trust him and thats only possible through the Holy Spirit and our volition. Therefore, your monergistic false dichotomy of grace versus obedience evaporates before our very eyes.

 

[Dizerner]

Being graced with volition means we ourselves need to put it to good use by obeying God. That's only possible through the Holy Spirit, but we still have to obey God. Therefore, your monergistic false dichotomy of grace versus obedience evaporates before our very eyes.

Very well stated.

In fact, the Greek for synergy is directly attested in the NT, as I'm sure you well know:

For we are, God's, fellow-workmen (1 Cor. 3:9)

θεοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν συνεργοί

 

[synergy]

Very well stated.

In fact, the Greek for synergy is directly attested in the NT, as I'm sure you well know:

For we are, God's, fellow-workmen (1 Cor. 3:9)

θεοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν συνεργοί

And if you keep reading past those verses then you will see that we ourselves are to "build" on top of the foundation (being Christ) that the Apostles laid. We are to be active in the Kingdom, not passive as monergists.