Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Eternally-Grateful]

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24

We have eternal life the moment we believe, we will never lose this divine life. WE will remain justified and never revert back to condemnation, We have permanently passed from death unto life.

That's what eternal life is.

amen

passed from death to life is in the perfect tense. it is a completed action. it can not be undone

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Then why weren't you born already saved then, why isn't the Cross stronger than your free will.

Because God does not force his gift on us. He wants a relationship

Thats why he said we must recieve it (john 1) in faith (john 3 and others)

What could possibly be more gracious than God automatically saving you without your free will at all?

Unless he saves everyone. then thats a mute point. and against his character

You've made a serious mistake here.

or you have

 

[Doug Brents]

amen

his sheep hear his voice. and they follow

if they do not. they were never his sheep

Or are no longer His sheep.

 

[civic]

Grace does not teach this

one day you and others will get this in your minds that true grace, which is paid for by christ. teaches Grace is the means f change.

Licentiousness teaches this, but then they are condemned by James, Peter and Jude..

Yes shall we continue in sin that grace might abound? May it never be declares Paul !!!!

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman
I can see why @Dizerner did not respond back, for you started out your post to him very awkwardly, as though you were searching for the right words to use to maintain your position, yet not in a manner that would be offensive, but in a manner using the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive ~ Ephesians 4:12, etc.

LOL, I am no more insulted by your sophomoric ramblings than I would be from a mentally retarded adult, or a 2 year old child. Please stop Red, you are making a colossal fool of yourself.

@Dizerner never mentioned drinking blood, you adding that in order to help push your lies of clinging to the Jews' religion, which religion you have convinced yourself that you are not part of, but are one of their champion's here on this forum and wherever you go. You said:

My point is to consider that if the Stomach purges all things, and makes ALL Things "Food", as you and this world's religious system promote, then why doesn't the stomach purge "Blood" that is drank, or animals that have been strangled? It's a perfectly relevant question. I believe that answer is, "Because" God never sanctified "Blood" to be received "As Food", just as HE never Sanctified Strangled animals to be received "As Food". Just as He never sanctified Dogs, maggots, snails, pigs, poison dart frogs, etc., to be received as "Food". Your rambling is absurd. To preach that Jesus made "ALL THINGS" Food, is stupid. It's ridiculous and goes completely against the teaching of the entire Bible, and nature itself. There isn't one teaching in the entire Bible, EVER, that teaches or believed that the Christ would come to earth, and make "ALL Things "Food". So why would you preach such wicked foolishness? Because "you" like to eat pigs! How pathetic.

"Truly there is a symbolism there"~Yet you never tell us what that is concerning what @Dizerner said:

I'm not giving my pearls to you Red. But for Dizerner who brought up this very important point about "symbolism" and/or "Spiritual Intent". Concerning the "Blood" which is said to be the "Life" of a flesh and blood being, we are commanded by the Christ, to eat HIS flesh, and Drink His Blood which is symbolic of HIS Life, in my view. But we are forbidden to eat the Blood of ANY Beast. Which could be seen as symbolically consuming, or inviting into our hearts, the "Life" of anything other than Jesus. The Apostles in Acts 15 thought it was important enough to pass it on to the Gentiles, as it most certainly is "The Way of the Lord".

God forbidding Israel to eat certain meats was what was symbolic of the uncleaned Gentiles nations, by being outside of God's covenant, worship, etc. You never address this, because you are out to support your teachings of the Jewish dietary laws of the OT, a system of works that has been forever abolished. God has now cleansed the Gentiles as he did the Jews of old ~ the very elect among each. So Peter arise and eat, call not that unclean which God has cleansed.

God is not a Jew. God's Laws and not "Jewish Laws". And the Apostles promoted to the Gentiles God's Laws, not "Jewish dietary Laws" in Acts 15. If you can't even come to terms with these simple Biblical Facts, you shouldn't be preaching to others.

@Dizerner is not implying that at all, it is your lack of bible truth that pits scriptures against scriptures. Eating every creature of God with thanksgiving is not in violation of one of God's commandments under the NT where we live in the religion of Jesus Christ, not under the law.

John 1:17​

“For the law was given by Moses, but "AND" grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The very reason for Grace and Truth, is so we can "Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And who is the "New Man, according to the Spirit of Christ in Paul?

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which "after God" (Not Red Bakker) is created in righteousness "and true holiness".

And where does God instruct us in True Holiness? Where is it written, "Be ye holy for I am holy"?

This can be found when we become "Doers" of the Christ "of the Bibles" sayings, and Seek the Righteousness of God, and Live by His Words.

At lease according to what is written in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Do you ascribe to Eternal Justification?

Are people born sheep?

yes, we ascribe to eternal life. based on the redemption in christ,

Not on the temporal justification, based on our works

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

God does not wear rose–colored glasses. He is not in the habit of pretending something is true when in fact it isn’t. So how can He declare guilty men and women “not guilty”?

Paul sums up the answer to that question in his second letter to the Corinthians:

He made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

So God made a swap. Actually, the correct term is imputation. He imputed our sin to Christ and His righteousness to us. To impute something to people is to credit them with it. Christ credited us with His righteousness, including all its rights and privileges.

He made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2 Corinthians 5:21

yes

and all of our sin was placed on him. Not just particular sins, or sins up to a certain date.. All of them

 

[JLB]

look at reality

why did the jews crucify christ. because they had faith in God?

do you nost trust your parents or your spouse?

faith is a word. we do it all the time in many people

there is one faith that saves.

but there are many faiths.

Faith comes FROM God when He speaks to us.

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17


When you understand that simple principle then you won’t keep making up scenarios that don’t exist in scripture.

When we hear the Gospel and respond by obeying the Gospel we become born again.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Conditional upon our faith.

through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand (Rom. 5:2 NKJ)

No faith, no imputation.

Yes

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him.

Not because of works..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Let's just say I have more faith in God's preservation (Psalm 37:28; 1 Corinthians 1:8; 1 Peter 1:5; Jude 1:1) than I do in self preservation.

100%

zero trust in self.. (except when my flesh says it wants something, and I fail to resist)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Let's also just say God tells ME to CHOOSE this day whom I will serve.

The logic of eternal security inevitably leads, if consistently followed, to the complete elimination of all free will.

eternal life is eternal

you teach conditional life

thats now found in scripture as far as our eternity goes.

Jesus did not say whoever believes in me, gets baptized. goes to church. gives to the poor. stops sin. obeys my commands,. does all these great things, MAY never die, and have conditional life.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

It's like saying they invented looking to the Bible alone.

wow..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The demons believe there is one God but they don't believe in God, i.e. they don't put their faith in Him. Believing in God, or faith in God IS the ONLY Biblical requirement to be saved. So, whether on rocky soil, thorny soil, or good soil - they all believed. The only "soil" that did not believe is the one beside the road. In fact, even those who were "good soil" are not said to be "saved" either, even though we know they were.

actually those on rocky or thorny did not trust God.

They may have believed, like the demons believes. but they did not trust.

its why it was so easy for them to fall

a dog returns to his vomit

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

"Then the Faith (ἡ πίστις) is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)
"Can the Faith (ἡ πίστις) save him?" (James 2:14b)

these are not the same faith

what will it take to get this to break the barrier in your will to see this..

If it was the same faith, it would have saved them, and they would have produced some works.. The fact they produced zero works, proves it was not the same faith

No.
Why?
Because "... the Faith (ἡ πίστις) without works is dead" (James 2:26).

Yes. Because IT IS NOT FAITH

Conclusion: "... a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." (James 2:24)

Then you and paul are at odds.

You need to start resolving the contradiction. I am done with james, there is nothing more to say on that subject matter

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

not more than one faith that saves.

yes

but that is not the discussion

the discussion is there is more than one faith

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Or are no longer His sheep.

no such thing

 

[civic]

yes

but that is not the discussion

the discussion is there is more than one faith

Context determines if it’s salvific as in one faith

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Faith comes FROM God when He speaks to us.

If we trust in the words he says.

if we do not. then there is no faith... or we may not be confident in what he says, so we may believe, but our faith might be elsewhere

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

amen

When you understand that simple principle then you won’t keep making up scenarios that don’t exist in scripture.

funny. I believe faith comes by hearing

Unlike you. I do not believe someone who hears the words and either do not trust it or change the words some to fit their beliefs. have faith which came from hearing

they would have unbelief

When we hear the Gospel and respond by obeying the Gospel we become born again.

yes. key word those who are saved or WE

not those who are lost or THEY

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

They have not all obeyed the gospel..

why?

because they did nto believe

he who believes is not ocndemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

not everyone who says they have faith or believe in God truly believes..

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Context determines if it’s salvific as in one faith

amen

in James.. Context shows it was not that one faith. if it was. it would have saved them

 

[JLB]

eternal life is eternal

you teach conditional life

thats now found in scripture as far as our eternity goes.

Jesus did not say whoever believes in me, gets baptized. goes to church. gives to the poor. stops sin. obeys my commands,. does all these great things, MAY never die, and have conditional life.

Eternal life is being in Christ, joined to Christ and one spirit with Christ.

Those who are removed from Christ no longer have eternal life, because they are no longer in Christ.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:1-2


It’s no about whether eternal life is eternal or not.

It’s about whether you remain in Christ who is eternal life; the Spirit of life in Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Only those who remain in Christ will continue to benefit from the eternal life in Christ.


Here’s how John instructs us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24