NO. You could never do enough good works to maintain your salvation.
Thanks for understanding...
It's good to do good works for God !
From start to finish Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5,6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Peter 1:9)
How about posting scripture?
How about not putting verses in parenthesis?
How about learning HOW TO POST scripture?
So which teachings of Jesus, or any other writer of the NT,
do you believe spoke about faith ONLY??
I believe in obeying Jesus and Jesus never said that good works are our salvation. That is your eisegesis which is filtered through the lens of works-righteousness. Jesus is our salvation. (John 3:16-18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:24; 2 Corinthians 5:21)
As usual, I don't see any scripture to support your position.
But here is what the NT teaches about good works:
There are many, many more verses, but the following should suffice.
Two or three verses should suffice...there are ten's of them.
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Descriptive of children of God.
That is what you believe.
I believe that Jesus and the others are telling us how to get to heaven.
Some passages are descriptive and some are prescriptive.
It's important to know the difference.
In Matthew 7:24-26, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as you suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock, and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand, and it collapses. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone.
WHERE does it state what you post above?
This is what Jesus taught in
Matthew 7:24-29
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."
28 When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching;
29 for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.
Let's review what Jesus actually stated BEFORE you added your own ideas:
1. Those who hear and ACT are wise.
2. Their house did NOT FALL.
3. Those who hear and DO NOT ACT on Jesus' words are foolish.
4. Their house DID FALL. And great was its fall.
On what were THOSE persons supposed to act on?
Jesus is giving the sermon on the Mount.
See Matthew 5:3-10 Jesus is telling persons HOW they are to BEHAVE:
Blessed are the poor in spirit ---- because they know they need God.
Blessed are those who mourn----they understand the world we live in.
Blessed are the gentile------they will be first in the Kingdom....
etc.
Matthew 5:21.....More teaching on behavior:
If you hate your brother....you have commited murder.
Matthew 5:27.....You can commit adultery by lusting alone.
Matthew 5:29.....sounds serious....better to "remove" body parts than to sin.
Matthew 5:30......no divorce.
etc.
THESE ARE THE WORDS of Christ that He spoke of as being followed BY THE WISE MAN.
(descriptive of genuine Christians) The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. (descriptive of pseudo-Christians) Only those who truly believe in Him (demonstrative evidence) are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. Keep in mind that in context, Jesus mentions false prophets in vs. 15 and He never knew these many people in vs. 23 which means they were never saved. True and false Christians are being contrasted throughout Matthew 7:15-27.
I don't see any of your words in any of Jesus' teachings.
If you could just show them..it would be nice.
Sure, I do (Matthew 5:16; Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8,14) I just don't teach works-righteousness. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Big difference. Believers perform good works from salvation and not for salvation. You have it backwards.
Still no scripture.
However, what you're stating above is NOT what is taught in the NT.
Here is what Jesus said we need to do for salvation:
John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
1. JESUS said a time is coming for judgment.
2. Those who did GOOD DEEDS will come forward to a life of resurrection.
3. Those who did evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
There is no talk here of being born again, eternal salvation, or any other such idea.,,,,
He clearly teaches that we will be judged by OUR ACTIONS,,,OUR GOOD DEEDS or our evil deeds.
Here is what Paul said about our judgment:
Romans 2:5-8
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
1. God will render to each man according to his deeds.
2. Those who persevere in DOING GOOD, glory, honor and eternal life.
3. Those who do not OBEY THE TRUTH...wrath and indignation.
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Did you just switch to OSAS?
Let's check your verses...thanks for posting them:
Psalm 37:28 Who will be cut off? Unbelievers? No. Descendants of the WICKED. We must not read into scripture our own belief system.
John 10:27 Jesus' sheep HEAR HIS VOICE. Present tense.
And they FOLLOW HIM. What do you think it means TO FOLLOW when Jesus uses that term?
Maybe it means this:
Luke 9:23
And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Galatians 5:24
24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Luke 6:40
40A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
1 Corinthians 1:8 - He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:8
1 Corinthians 1:6-9
6 even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Verse 6: Christ has been verified in your lives.
Verse 7: God has given you every gift you need.
Verse 8: God is near to us to keep us on track...waiting for our Lord to return.
Verse 9: God will be faithful in His promise...He will help us always.
God is faithful to Himself and His promises.
If we do NOT deny Him...He will never deny us.
2 Timothy 2:11-13
11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself.
1 Peter 1:5 - who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Two comments:
1. 1 Peter 1:5 is always true as is all scripture.
But did you notice
1 Peter 1:2
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
We're told to obey Jesus.
We need to read all of scripture.
If we believe, we are saved...if we do not obey the wrath of God remains.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
You could change the word OBEY to BELIEVE if you prefer....
same difference.
2. Which kind of faith? Peter doesn't specify!
Maybe he means the same kind of faith as in James 2:14??
James doesn't specify either.
Interesting.
Maybe there's just ONE KIND of faith??
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, ]sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
Agreed.
We are preserved
IN JESUS CHRIST.
If we abide in Him we are saved.
If we do NOT abide in Him...we cannot be saved.
Amen! This is how we demonstrate our love for the children of God but not maintain our salvation by works. Believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) This does not mean flawless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to ALL of God's commandments as those who promote sinless perfection teach. (1 John 1:8-10) Only Jesus Christ was sinless.
You know somebody that is perfect?
téreó: To keep, to guard, to observe, to watch over
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Pronunciation: tay-reh'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: To keep, to guard, to observe, to watch over
Meaning: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
We've been through this before....
TO KEEP means TO KEEP.
In ANY language.
Did you notice that one of the words FROM WHICH YOU COULD CHOOSE
IS. I KEEP....
I never said they were burdensome. That is a strawman argument, and your strawman arguments are getting old.
LOL
So are yours!
But you keep posting them anyway.
THIS is what you posted in no. 704:
"You make perseverance sound like an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do and the Lord will so easily allow Christians to slip through His hands. "
YOU stated that I make perseverance wound extremely difficult.
That is YOU projecting.
I posted that Jesus' commands are not burdensome....
and they SHOULD NOT be.
I believe what Jesus teaches. I just don't believe your eisegesis.
I just post scripture.
You can believe it at will.
Not all belief is saving belief. Even though this shallow ground hearer in
Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? Allow me to explain why.
First, his heart condition is
contrasted with that of the
"good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was
"good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was
not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being
"shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner
not properly prepared in heart.
WHERE does it state this in Luke 8:13??
Do you NOT BELIEVE what JESUS says?
He said THEY BELIEVE FOR A WHILE...
FOR A WHILE...
THEY THEY FALL AWAY...
FALL AWAY.
Don't you like how Jesus communicates?
It seems very clear.
You add to scripture to make it say what YOU want it to say.
THIS is eisegesis.
People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel (emotional response) without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
So could you post some verses that explain HOW a person's heart is prepared?
Maybe Jesus forgot to read this part.
*Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is
not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can
no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in
James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
So BELIEF is NOT what saves?
There's a special KIND of belief that we are to assume if we want to be saved?
So how can you be sure YOU are saved?
Maybe YOU don't have the proper type of belief...
Especially in view of the fact that you don't believe what Jesus taught....
But add your own ideas and spin to it to make it mean what YOU theologically believe.
IN CONTRAST TO -
Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on
good ground and
yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced:
some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the
good ground are those who, having
heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person
not properly prepared in heart, so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted or established) and good soil represents a person
properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience. Faith without works is dead, remember?
In fact, the one that fell away did not bear fruit
BECAUSE it fell away.
Proven, once again that OSAS is a false belief system.
JESUS stated one could fall away.
Fall away from what?
Other translations simply say your brother was dead, and is alive;
Oh sweet.
You mean that the PS was not really THE SON before he left his father's house?
I thought that you believed that if one is A SON...
he is ALWAYS A SON.
Incorrect theology always catches up with itself.
Was the prodigal son a son OR NOT???
Can't have it both ways ....
Always trying to change the wording to suit YOURSELF.
he was lost, and is found (ESV); your brother was dead, but now he is alive. He was lost, but now he is found (NCV); this brother of yours was dead and has come to life; he was lost and has been found (NRS); this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found (NASB). All three parables in Luke 15 were in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying, “This Man receives sinners and eats with them." (vs. 2)
Replied to above.
See if you can get yourself out of this corner.
The point here is not about a loss of salvation, but a loss of usefulness and effectiveness. Salt was used as a preservative, just as believers are used to preserve humanity from immorality.
Interesting.
Of course, He does and for the right reasons.
I find it very interesting that in the very next verse, Jesus said -
unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven" This statement from Jesus would come as a shock to the multitude of people who had great admiration of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness and holiness in external observance of the law, yet Jesus points out
their righteousness was defective. Paul makes it clear in
Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being
ignorant of God's righteousness, and
seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."
Hmmm. So is this what Matthew 7:20 means?
Jesus said OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (maybe He really meant HIS righteousness?)
MUST SUPASS that of the Pharisees....
Need I post the pretzel again?
We see in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector an example of those who
trusted in themselves that they were righteous, yet despised others. (
Luke 18:9-14) We also see this today with various modern day Pharisees. The righteousness that exceeds the "righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees" (self righteousness) is the
righteousness of God which is from God by faith.
Truly ubelievable.
You're very good at this.
Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him,
not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is
through faith in Christ, the
righteousness which is from God by faith.
Romans 3:21 - But now the
righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the
righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference.
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but
believes on Him who justifies the ungodly,
his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom
God imputes righteousness apart from works.
No need to be so judgmental. You are not THE judge, and you are not my judge.
Thanks be to God.
But here is what THE JUDGE states:
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Did I say I was weighing my fruit? Do you believe that all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful? Perhaps you believe in fruitless Christians, which is an oxymoron.
SOME Christians teach that fruit is not necessary.
Some teach that fruit is BAD....because it is being self-righteous.
I already thoroughly explained all of this. There are those who truly follow Jesus and there are those who thought they were following Jesus (like the Pharisees and the many people in Matthew 7:22-23) who all trust in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone and were deceived. Let everyone make sure they have the right foundation. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
So nice of you to explain everything mailmandan.
And you sure do like the sound of your own voice.
So I spent all my time here with you.
But it was worth it to expose how incorrect your theology is.
You even posted a self-imposed conflict regarding the Prodigal Son.
