Excellent Discussion on OSAS
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civic
Active Member
Yep
What do you mean by that? That you don't believe promoting these pics as Jesus and God is idolatry, or are we in agreement that these pics, and the religious traditions and high days associated with them, do not represent God or the Lord's Christ as defined and described in the Holy Scriptures?
civic
Active Member
I don’t believe in making images of God as outlined in the 10 commandments along with idols
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
I believe it is by the Spirit, the Spirit of grace, we are empowered to keep His commandments.
Never the less, He doesn’t keep the commandments for us, we must by the Spirit keep His commandments.
The good news is, His commandments are not burdensome.
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
Amen sister. You go!
@GodsGrace
1) Fran NOT all are brothers and sisters, yet as I said above, charity demands we treat others as such, UNTIL they give clear evidence that they are not so, and THEN we cast them out as heathens, etc.
2) Fran, we do not have it in our power to save a person from spiritual death! Only by the power of God is one delivered from being spiritual dead in trespasses and sin; and once delivered they cannot never die the second death, impossible.
Revelation 20:6
“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
The first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection, that takes places during one's life from being dead in trespasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ.
You proud statement thinking it is in YOUR power to save a person from spiritual death is against God's testimony of the truth.
We learn (at least we should) that if any are preserved from false worship, if any are brought to the knowledge of God, it is by His special influence and agency and grace alone, and not owing to themselves. Such favored individuals are said to be "reserved" by God. How different is this from your view and the views of multitudes who profess Christianity!
As there was a remnant then reserved by God, so there is a remnant now. Both were necessary for the preservation of the nation. The seven thousand were its salt in Elijah’s time, as were the remnant here spoken of during Israel's present blindness.
According to the election of grace ~ Than this nothing can be more explicit in spite of what you and others teach otherwise. God had formerly reserved for Himself, by His gracious influence and special agency, a small number in Israel; and in the same way, at the time when the apostle wrote, He had reserved, according to His sovereign choice, a remnant of that nation. And to set aside every idea that this election was the reward of an inherent good foreseen in those chosen, or of anything meritorious performed by them, the Apostle adds that it was of grace. It was an unconditional choice, resulting from the sovereign free favor of God. WHY do you reject God's word, so boldly and with a proud spirit? More than you bargain for? I could say much more, but enough for now.
Of course you did not ~I said that it is THEN that God has ordained to separate branches that PROFESS to be IN HIM, yet failed to produce the fruits of the Spirit ~ so, regardless how you desire to danced around what I have said, it is biblically true, they BOTH live in the profess kingdom of heaven "until" that day, and THEN God will sent forth his elect angels to separate the wicked from among the just, made so by grace alone on the behalf of Jesus' redemption work, in spite of your hatred for that truth of the scriptures, you can never remove it from the holy scriptures, and it still will be there in that day when you stand before the God who gave us the scriptures to preach and teach.
Fran, ALL SCRIPUTRES teach one cohesive truth and must be used to do so. Connecting John 15 with other scriptures showing WHEN and WHY folks shall be cast into the lake of fire is how any wise teacher of God's word teaches truth. But what would folks like you know about this since you "adamantly" reject me from doing so. You and others here are so in loved with your work gospel (man having an active part in his salvation from sin and condemnation) that you reject the biblical teaching of any that teach a salvation of pure grace, evidence by the recipient being careful to maintain the fruits of the Spirit in their daily life as they live out the Christian life per God's commandments not man made commandments, such as @Studyman promotes, by abstaining from certain meats, living by OT dietary laws given exclusively to the nation of Israel, etc.
Again, you err by not knowing the word of God, especially so as you think you do!
1) Fran NOT all are brothers and sisters, yet as I said above, charity demands we treat others as such, UNTIL they give clear evidence that they are not so, and THEN we cast them out as heathens, etc.
2) Fran, we do not have it in our power to save a person from spiritual death! Only by the power of God is one delivered from being spiritual dead in trespasses and sin; and once delivered they cannot never die the second death, impossible.
Revelation 20:6
“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
The first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection, that takes places during one's life from being dead in trespasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ.
John 5:25
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”You proud statement thinking it is in YOUR power to save a person from spiritual death is against God's testimony of the truth.
As I said above these scriptures are speaking of a practical death that some of God children do lapse into at times, sad to say, much like Lot did, and even Peter by denying Christ. Yes, we CAN save them from this practical death that even the best of God children could fall into, by not taking heed to the scriptures as they should. When we save a brother from erring, we save him from committing more sins by him continuing in the life as he was living in ~ "will save his soul from death (practical) and will cover a multitude of sins....." that he would committed by not being converted back into the way he should be living in.
Fran, truly I should be saying this TO YOU! For you to make such an unscriptural statement as that is to show your rejection of God's word. You said: "no such concept as election of grace in the NT or anywhere in the bible." Really, what Bible to you read from? Fran's translation of the word of God? Listen to God's testimony, not mine:
Romans 11:4
“But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”We learn (at least we should) that if any are preserved from false worship, if any are brought to the knowledge of God, it is by His special influence and agency and grace alone, and not owing to themselves. Such favored individuals are said to be "reserved" by God. How different is this from your view and the views of multitudes who profess Christianity!
As there was a remnant then reserved by God, so there is a remnant now. Both were necessary for the preservation of the nation. The seven thousand were its salt in Elijah’s time, as were the remnant here spoken of during Israel's present blindness.
According to the election of grace ~ Than this nothing can be more explicit in spite of what you and others teach otherwise. God had formerly reserved for Himself, by His gracious influence and special agency, a small number in Israel; and in the same way, at the time when the apostle wrote, He had reserved, according to His sovereign choice, a remnant of that nation. And to set aside every idea that this election was the reward of an inherent good foreseen in those chosen, or of anything meritorious performed by them, the Apostle adds that it was of grace. It was an unconditional choice, resulting from the sovereign free favor of God. WHY do you reject God's word, so boldly and with a proud spirit? More than you bargain for? I could say much more, but enough for now.
Coming back to finish, and finish I WILL.
@civic
I'll wait until you two are finish and then I have a few things to say to him. He plainly rejects Jesus being God manifest in the flesh, which is antichrist teaching! We are forbidden to give him God's speed.
civic
Active Member
And here is the kicker. A unitarian God cannot be love- Scripture declares God is love. A solitary, singular god or person without another to share life/love together cannot know or experience love. We know love is selfless and this affirms God is plural in Persons, not singular as in unitarianism. At best the unitarian god would be nothing but the ultimate narcissist. One who only loves self incapable of loving others. This god cannot love nor save a soul from sin, neither can its christ for we read this below.
Psalm 49:7- No man can possibly redeem his brother or pay his ransom to God.
A Christ who is only a man can at best redeem himself but not anyone else. But a Christ who is God can redeem all mankind.
@GodsGrace
Dogs that Paul said beware of, are not four legged animals, but two legs walking about seeking whom they may impart some of their false gospel to and to mock and persecute those who preach a gospel of pure and free grace. Read these words and see where YOU stand: "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" Same as Galatians 2:16 !
Fran actually I'm far from being as direct as Paul was to folks like you who preach another gospel based upon man having an active part in his salvation from sin and condemnation.
Fran, you and your friends put confidence in YOUR FLESH (you so-called free will) as having a part in your salvation from sin and condemnation, when according to biblical truth, our flesh is at enmity against God, period! Not just an enemy, which is bad enough, but AT ENMITY....at war against God, righteousness, truth, etc. Our natural flesh loves sin, darkness, lies, more than truth, righteousness and coming to the light. By nature, we love everything but God, which to an unregenerate person is the most boring thing they could engage in. But, you and others think the flesh is not all that bad, but has some good in it, and all it needs is just a little help from proud spirit like you to help them come to God. Nothing can be farther form God's truth.
Dogs that Paul said beware of, are not four legged animals, but two legs walking about seeking whom they may impart some of their false gospel to and to mock and persecute those who preach a gospel of pure and free grace. Read these words and see where YOU stand: "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" Same as Galatians 2:16 !
@civic
I must admit that I cannot see what you are attempting to say. The Godhead IS ONE, yet manifested as three only according to each's role in the redemption of God's elect.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
very good my friend.
Did you also know that many now follow another image
an image of jesus the flesh of men have created .
And it bows down to honor whatever sin they so desire .
I aint kidding i seen a jesus that holds up even rainbows and kisses korans and hollers
Many blasphemous things and promotes a love of the world , NOT GOD .
But then you understand why i did not captilize that jesus . CAUSE satan can use that name
and he will use it so deceive and give those whose desire is to serve the flesh , THEY OWN image
of what they believe is GOD , is LOVE , IS CHRIST . but its satan the god of this world
who simply deceives through the lusts of the flesh . Just a necessary reminder
for all to be on guard in these last and final hours upon earth .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Did you know that most every place i go and visit
We hear this so often . Love ye one another .
And yet many have no idea
their version of love ye one another IS OF THE WORLD . NOT THE GODLY VERSION .
And i mean MANY are now under its influence to some degree or another .
SO many , this man could not even begin to count that number . ITS BAD , REAL BAD .
I suggest a huge increase of bible reading to any and to all who may read this message .
Cause many are being deceived . OH but thanks for the reminder my friend .
mailmandan
Active Member
In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.
Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.
John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.
John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.
The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. Abiding in Christ is not a special level of Christian experience that is only available to a few, elite Christians, but is the position of all genuine believers.
1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
This is the undeniable Biblical Truth. The issue is, there are "many" who preach this, but by their "works" (preaching, lifestyle, etc.) it becomes clear that they don't really believe this.
I find that in many cases, that it's the Scriptures that "Adamantly" oppose your preaching. And it seems many others have come to the same conclusion, maybe even GG. Perhaps maybe a little humility, and self reflection is in order for you. After all, it is written: "Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished".
It is God's Inspired Word that says over and over, that HE judges men according to their "Works".
And it is written:
Titus 3: 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
It was Paul, Peter and the Apostles who told the Gentiles in Acts 15, "To Abstain" from certain traditions that were contrary to God's Law given to men through Moses. And this was years after Jesus ascended to His Father. I don't mean the Laws of the Pharisees, like not eating bread with hands that have not been washed a certain way. That is not a Law of God at all, but the commandments of men that the Pharisees called "The Law of Moses", "and many other such things they did". Yes, they were trying to promote their traditions, many of which transgressed God's commandments, onto the Gentiles in Acts 15. But their law had been a Yoke of bondage they placed on the necks of men for centuries, and even the Apostles couldn't bear them.
But apparently the Gentiles in Acts 15, who had turned to God, engaged in traditional practices that were considered Sin according to God. These included pollution of idols, fornication, drinking blood, and eating animals strangled. Perhaps they engaged in the practice of hanging live chickens by the neck until they were strangled, not draining the blood, as per God's Law, but it wasn't detailed. Here is what the Apostles taught these Gentiles.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses) and from fornication, (Law of Moses) and from things strangled, (Law of Moses) and from blood. (Law of Moses) 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
So it's easy for GG and others to see that what you preach, that God's Laws are only for men of a certain DNA, and what the Apostles actually taught to the Gentiles in Acts 15, are two completely different gospels.
So you SAY: "ALL SCRIPUTRES teach one cohesive truth and must be used to do so".
But by your "Works", (preaching) it is clear you don't really believe, nor do you practice what you preach.
After all, the Jesus "of the Bible" did say, "And he said unto him, If they "hear not" Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
It seems to me the Apostles were advising the Gentiles, the same as Jesus instructed,
Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Who am I to argue or rebel against the Lord's Christ.
Jay
Active Member
Did you know there is a seal assuring each believer that no one has tampered with his or her eternal security. Paul said it this way:
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13–14
Signed sealed delivered, we are His. Christ bought us with His blood.
Christian brothers, let me show you what this means. If two men agree to something and sign their names on a paper promising to stay true to what they agree, it cannot be changed. Galatians 3:15
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:13–14
Signed sealed delivered, we are His. Christ bought us with His blood.
Christian brothers, let me show you what this means. If two men agree to something and sign their names on a paper promising to stay true to what they agree, it cannot be changed. Galatians 3:15
GodsGrace
Active Member
Amen.
By our desire to follow God we can remain with Christ....
and our desire is aided by the Holy Spirit, Who is able to Keep us by working in us.
We do not lose our free will after becoming saved....
but by our free will, God will keep us safe for as long as we abide in Him.
But abide we must...
He is our salvation.
GodsGrace
Active Member
Amen. Well said.
But who are these "You also"? Shall we separate this one sentence from the rest of the Bible, and hide our faces from the rest of Paul's teaching, or Jesus' Teaching as they define for us "Who it is" that are Sealed?
There are men who "believe" they are "Sealed" with the Holy spirit of Promise, that are not. We are told to "Beware" of men "who come in Christ's Name". We are told there are "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who proclaim to be "Sealed with the Holy spirit of Promise", that Jesus doesn't even know. Paul said not to be ignorant of the many who drank and ate of the Spiritual Rock that was Christ, but fell in the wilderness, and that these words were written for our admonition, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed "lest he fall".
In the Same Chapter, Paul said "4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that "we should be holy and without blame" before him in love: Paul says in the same Epistle, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them".
Paul also says,
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Paul also says;
Rom. 11: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee,(Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) goodness, "if thou continue" in "his" goodness: otherwise "thou also" shalt be cut off.
Peter understood as well.
2 Pet. 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, (Because of this) beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
And in closing, Paul understood the struggles (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) would encounter in their journey, striving against sin.
Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God (Which is) in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us (Those who are Sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise) therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
So there are other voices in the garden God placed us in, that tells us, "Thou shall surely not die", and as Jeremiah warns, "and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
Therefore, I would caution those who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to understand that Passover is only the Beginning of God's Salvation, not the end. And as Hebrews tells us:
Hebrews 3: 17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And Paul warned,
1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: "for they drank of that spiritual Rock" that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore (Because of these undeniable Biblical Truth) let him "that thinketh he standeth" take heed lest he fall.
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