Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Studyman]

And studyman is also a Unitarian. Deeply rooted doesn’t necessarily lead to truth. There are two completely different gods between Trinitarians and Unitarians , 2 different Christs too.

I fully understand the traditions of this world's religious system you have adopted and are promoting to others Civic, including your adopted tradition of labeling everyone. "Legalists", "Unitarian" "Judaizer", "Trinitarian", etc., and the list goes on and on.

I think is an ungodly practice, and although I have been influenced by it since my youth, I work hard not to adopt such a tradition. And I also know after many discussions with you, that you are here on a mission to advance the philosophies of your own specific religion, and work to demean other religious sects of the same religious system you are part of, just as others are here to advance the philosophies of their specific religion, and work to demean your religious sect, which is part of the same worldly religious system.

So I'm not going to engage in the same ole worn out arguments, about how one religion that transgresses God's Commandments and Judgments, is better than other religions of the same worldly religious system, who transgress God's commandments and judgments.

But I would like to point out a hypocrisy in your whole "Unitarian/Trinitarian" controversy, in case others might have noticed, to let them know they are not alone.

Because when I say to you:

Civic, This is eternal life! That we may know the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, AND believe that this Christ is the Prophesied Messiah, the Holy One of Israel, The Prophesied New Priest, after a NEW Priesthood Covenant, that God sent to save those who have been lead astray by the religious system of this world, of whom I was one.

You Labeled me a "Unitarian", because I didn't inject the Catholic Philosophy of a godhead that is made up of 3 separate persons in One.

But when Jesus says:

John 17: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom "thou" hast sent.

You don't label Him a "Unitarian".

When I say, Civic, the Jesus "of the Bible" ascended up to His Father and my Father, the One True God, who Jesus said was greater than HE, and HE is now Advocating between me and HIS Father and my Father. You labeled me a "Unitarian", because I didn't inject the Catholic Philosophy of the godhead that is made up of 3 separate but equal persons.

But when both Jesus and John says;

John 20: 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and "to my God, and your God".

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, "I go unto the Father": for my Father is greater than I.

1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate "with the Father", Jesus Christ the righteous:

You don't Label them "Unitarians". Why is that?

For this reason, and much more, the Labels placed on me by you and other promoters of this world's religious system don't have any weight, and given the lack of truth in them, why should I be influenced by them? Especially when Jesus warned specifically about the "many" promoters of this world's religious system, "Who calls Him Lord, Lord".

Aren't there really only 2 kinds of people on earth. Those who are Faithful to God, and those who are not!

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

But we're not discussing John 3:1-8

We ARE discussing John 15:1-2

Fran I'm discussing both, at the same time, so, can you; and actually John 3:1-8 is probably more important as far as understanding the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Are you saying that ONLY YOU are saved and thus can interpret scripture
and others cannot because they are NOT SAVED??

Absolutely not, but will say, unless one is born of the Spirit, they cannot understand one iota of the scriptures. The best they can do is hear the sound bites and think they know what it means, but that's what the majority of professing Christian go on, and you see what that get them, or at least you should.

 

[Red Baker]

@GodsGrace

And Jesus is not speaking about the last days as He does in Matthew 24....
Jesus is speaking about producing good fruit for the Kingdom of God,,,right here,,,right now.

Fran, I agree that the Lord Jesus is not speaking about the last days in John 15, yet that does not means when explaining John 15 first few verses, that an application should not and cannot be applied to the last days, since it is very true, as you even said:

There are many who might appear to be saved but are not.

That we wait and allow God to separate the sheep from the goats in that day. We also agree, that we as Christians should be careful, to maintain good work, or produce fruits of the Spirit in our life, and that we put no faith in others profess testimony where there seemly is not fruits, though we are careful not to overly judge any person.

Verse 1: JESUS is THE VINE....Jesus gives life to the branches that are IN THE VINE.
God is the vinedresser.


Verse 2: Every BRANCH IN THE VINE......
If we are IN THE VINE....we are saved becaue Jesus is giving us life.

Fran, one can be IN CHRIST by one confession, yet not truly in him by God's election of grace. The love of the truth and a love for those who love the truth are the clearest evidence of being a child of God.

As you have said, and I agree, we must not sit in judgement of other men's salvation ~ charity demands from us that we show love toward all men until they gives clear evidence that they reject the word of God, and are a despiser of those that are good.

I have a duty I must do...later.

 

[civic]

I fully understand the traditions of this world's religious system you have adopted and are promoting to others Civic, including your adopted tradition of labeling everyone. "Legalists", "Unitarian" "Judaizer", "Trinitarian", etc., and the list goes on and on.

I think is an ungodly practice, and although I have been influenced by it since my youth, I work hard not to adopt such a tradition. And I also know after many discussions with you, that you are here on a mission to advance the philosophies of your own specific religion, and work to demean other religious sects of the same religious system you are part of, just as others are here to advance the philosophies of their specific religion, and work to demean your religious sect, which is part of the same worldly religious system.

So I'm not going to engage in the same ole worn out arguments, about how one religion that transgresses God's Commandments and Judgments, is better than other religions of the same worldly religious system, who transgress God's commandments and judgments.

But I would like to point out a hypocrisy in your whole "Unitarian/Trinitarian" controversy, in case others might have noticed, to let them know they are not alone.

Because when I say to you:

Civic, This is eternal life! That we may know the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, AND believe that this Christ is the Prophesied Messiah, the Holy One of Israel, The Prophesied New Priest, after a NEW Priesthood Covenant, that God sent to save those who have been lead astray by the religious system of this world, of whom I was one.

You Labeled me a "Unitarian", because I didn't inject the Catholic Philosophy of a godhead that is made up of 3 separate persons in One.

But when Jesus says:

John 17: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom "thou" hast sent.

You don't label Him a "Unitarian".

When I say, Civic, the Jesus "of the Bible" ascended up to His Father and my Father, the One True God, who Jesus said was greater than HE, and HE is now Advocating between me and HIS Father and my Father. You labeled me a "Unitarian", because I didn't inject the Catholic Philosophy of the godhead that is made up of 3 separate but equal persons.

But when both Jesus and John says;

John 20: 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and "to my God, and your God".

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, "I go unto the Father": for my Father is greater than I.

1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate "with the Father", Jesus Christ the righteous:

You don't Label them "Unitarians". Why is that?

For this reason, and much more, the Labels placed on me by you and other promoters of this world's religious system don't have any weight, and given the lack of truth in them, why should I be influenced by them? Especially when Jesus warned specifically about the "many" promoters of this world's religious system, "Who calls Him Lord, Lord".

Aren't there really only 2 kinds of people on earth. Those who are Faithful to God, and those who are not!

The reality is as hard as this is to accept you and I have a different god and different christ. They are not the same even though there may be similarities.

 

[Studyman]

The reality is as hard as this is to accept you and I have a different god and different christ. They are not the same even though there may be similarities.

I have long since known that your god is not the same as Jesus' God and my God, Jesus' Father and my Father, and that you promote "another Jesus" not described in the Holy Scriptures and have said so many many times on this very forum. So once again, the foolishness of your statement that this reality is "hard" for me to accept, is just as foolish as the demeaning Labels you place on me for believing the actual Word's of the Christ "of the Bible".

You can't speak to the Scriptures I post or the questions they pose, because to do so would bring question to your god, just as the Pharisees couldn't engage with Stephen or Jesus or Paul regarding the Scriptures they referenced, because to do so would expose their god. Just as Cain couldn't honestly engage with the Spirit of Christ speaking to him, because to do so would expose "another voice" in him as well.

This same story is repeated over and over again in the Holy Scriptures, and written for our admonition. The difference between us, is that I believe them, and you can't.

So I freely admit, before the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, and my Lord and Savior, the Christ God Sent, that your Jesus;




Is not my Jesus.

And your God:



Is not my God, or Jesus' God as HE defines with the Word's His Father gave Him.

This reality is not hard to accept at all.

 

[civic]

I have long since known that your god is not the same as Jesus' God and my God, Jesus' Father and my Father, and that you promote "another Jesus" not described in the Holy Scriptures and have said so many many times on this very forum. So once again, the foolishness of your statement that this reality is "hard" for me to accept, is just as foolish as the demeaning Labels you place on me for believing the actual Word's of the Christ "of the Bible".

You can't speak to the Scriptures I post or the questions they pose, because to do so would bring question to your god, just as the Pharisees couldn't engage with Stephen or Jesus or Paul regarding the Scriptures they referenced, because to do so would expose their god. Just as Cain couldn't honestly engage with the Spirit of Christ speaking to him, because to do so would expose "another voice" in him as well.

This same story is repeated over and over again in the Holy Scriptures, and written for our admonition. The difference between us, is that I believe them, and you can't.

So I freely admit, before the One True God, the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, and my Lord and Savior, the Christ God Sent, that your Jesus;


View attachment 1925 View attachment 1926 View attachment 1927 View attachment 1928

Is not my Jesus.

And your God:

View attachment 1930 View attachment 1932 View attachment 1933

Is not my God, or Jesus' God as HE defines with the Word's His Father gave Him.

This reality is not hard to accept at all.

Thanks for confirming I have been right inspite of your personal insults

 

[Dizerner]

In response to your cowardly and cheap attack, I clearly addressed Fran's post : #269

None of your pages of meandering repetitious fluff addresses the point.

All you did was state something unrelated to the point at hand, pit a few loose Scriptures against each other falsely, and end with an unsubstantiated assertion of the Calvinism you already presuppose.

How can you possibly consider that the remotest bit convincing? I wasted my time reading it. And when someone has to write pages of things to look at a simple verse, you know they are trying to get around the plain meaning of it.

"Every branch in Me."

Only regenerate believers in Christ are his branches, unbelievers are "apart from Christ" and "without hope and without God."

"That does not bear fruit."

If a Christian does not bear fruit, that is spiritual fruit, expressing the life of Christ.

"is cut down and thrown into the fire."

It's not a good fire. Although some write pages to deny the existence of hell, this is God's wrath.


And there we have it folks, so-called "OSAS" is completely and utterly destroyed just by one verse of Scripture.

"Cowardly and cheap" my sweet patootie.

 

[Dizerner]

The above is addressed to @Dizerner .

I don't mind someone speaking their mind honestly, but I will definitely push back on it.

 

[Studyman]

Thanks for confirming I have been right inspite of your personal insults

I'm sure the Mainstream Preachers of the Jesus "of the bible's" time were also insulted when HE exposed that His Father and their father were not the same. But had they listened, it would have been a blessing for them, not an insult.

 

[civic]

I'm sure the Mainstream Preachers of the Jesus "of the bible's" time were also insulted when HE exposed that His Father and their father were not the same. But had they listened, it would have been a blessing for them, not an insult.

The deal is your Jesus is not the same Jesus as the Apostles or the Father.

 

[Dizerner]

Should take that to the right thread topic.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't mind someone speaking their mind honestly, but I will definitely push back on it.

I believe we should act as Christians if we want to define ourselves as such.
This doesn't mean I'm perfect and will even lash out at times...
But RB does this constantly, all the time.
This is not acceptable.

John 13:35 BY THIS WILL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YOU ARE MY BROTHERS, THAT YOU LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Fran, I agree that the Lord Jesus is not speaking about the last days in John 15,

Then why bring it up if you agree with me?
John 15:1-2 is not speaking about the future judgment.

yet that does not means when explaining John 15 first few verses, that an application should not and cannot be applied to the last days, since it is very true, as you even said:

I NEVER said it should be applied to future judgment.
I said it does NOT apply as Matthew 24 would apply.
Totally different topics spoken of by Jesus.

That we wait and allow God to separate the sheep from the goats in that day. We also agree, that we as Christians should be careful, to maintain good work, or produce fruits of the Spirit in our life, and that we put no faith in others profess testimony where there seemly is not fruits, though we are careful not to overly judge any person.

Have you read Matthew 18 lately?
Do you know that you could save a brother from death?

Matthew 18:15-18 How to do the following if one cannot judge another's actions?
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.


We could save a brother from death (spiritual):

Peter 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Fran, one can be IN CHRIST by one confession, yet not truly in him by God's election of grace. The love of the truth and a love for those who love the truth are the clearest evidence of being a child of God.

Well RB,,,if you want to be a lover of the truth...
start believing the truth.

There's is no such concept as election of grace in the NT or anywhere in the bible.

JESUS is speaking about one that is IN THE VINE.
A person that is IN THE VINE is a saved person.

Stop and think about this for a minute.
There's no stepping around it.

You either believe Jesus
or
You believe John Calvin. (or anyone that teaches what he taught).

As you have said, and I agree, we must not sit in judgement of other men's salvation ~ charity demands from us that we show love toward all men until they gives clear evidence that they reject the word of God, and are a despiser of those that are good.

I have a duty I must do...later.

Sitting in judgment of one's SALVATION
is different
than judging their doctrinal beliefs.

JESUS taught us what we need to know to be saved.
I suggest we trust Jesus.

THIS is how one is saved:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.


John 5:24 JESUS SAID
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life,

He who hears my voice
AND BELIEVES
has eternal life.

NOT
he who God has chosen.


John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


He who does not OBEY the Son will not see life.



John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Jesus said we are to keep His commandments.
He did NOT say that God will force us to keep them.

 

[civic]

Should take that to the right thread topic.

Legalism

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

If our salvation depends on anything but the finished work of Christ on the cross, we are in trouble. Or, at best, we run the risk of being in trouble. If you and I have any part in maintaining our salvation, it will be difficult to live with much assurance. Hope, yes; assurance, no.

Yet John wrote an entire epistle to assure a group of people, people he was not even around to observe, that they were in fact saved:

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

I have found the best way to live out my salvation is to abide in Christ.

That is the way to live out our salvation is to abide n Christ .
Foster
what did john say , IF that which YE have heard FROM the BEGINNING shall remain in you
YOU shall CONTINUE .
Yet today we got us a big ol fat broad road love path getting preached
and i see a ton of christiains believing that lie . WHICH HAS OMITTED the ONE TRUE GOSPEL
of YE MUST BELEIVE IN JESUS .
seems many are not of us . We cant hold to two gospels . EITHER WE TRULY BELIEVE JESUS
or we call HIM a liar and HIS word is not in us .
WHY am i seeing christains believing muslims , unbelieving jews , hindus , atheists and etc
AS BEING OKAY so long as they LOVEY DOOOED . sounds like a works religoin to me . A LIE .
WE cannot be as oprah wimphrey and say WE BLEIEVE and YET ITS NOT NECESSARY TO BELIEVE .
WE simply EITHER BELIEVE JESUS , HIS WORDS , or we follow another jesus . Its really quite simple .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Legalism

the sin accepting broad path of unbelief , IS NAUGHT BUT A WORKS RELIGOIN they call love .
JESUS IS BEING DENIED CIVIC . Remember that .
Remember that the next time you see one lipping about INTERFAITH INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE .
We cannot claim to BELEIVE IN HIM and YET say OH ITS OKAY IF ONE DOES NOT .
THERE IS NOT TWO GOSPELS . THERE IS ONLY ONE . AND ONE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST
to be saved . only anti christ would preach otherwise and make that road real broad .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

to the trenches selah , the HOUR IS QUITE LATE .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

a neighbor about three houses down has lots of chickens and a few roosters .
And i shant weep if the sky rips before the cockadoodle doo is heard in the am .
I KNOW WHERE MY HOME IS and I KNOW WHAT DAY I LONG FOR and LOOK forward too . THE COMING
of the GLORIOUS KING JESUS . man that sounds so lovely and peaceful . onward in the trenches
WHILE there still be TIME to trench .

 

[Dizerner]

Legalism

lol carry on then in your freedom in christ jesus

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

The hour of THE DELUSION is peaking .
inquity is no longer hidden but its honored in the streets .
The PRIDE of sodom can be found EVEN WITHIN much of Christendom .
THE SOUR bud is ripening
And the workers of inquity do all to try and find the means to attain peace n safety .
OH many now build in a strange and diverse tower of many diverse stones
and untempered morter . But that inclusive diverse house SHALL NEVER REACH HEAVEN
ITS ALL coming down on the DAY OF THE LORD
and their peace n safety will become THEIR OWN SUDDEN DESTRUCTION .
TIMES running its course and its running out . Be watching and be ready .