Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Excellent question. This opens the whole discussion concerning obedience and faith concerning salvation.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:17

The Gospel of the kingdom of God is repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Peter said it this way -

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Repent is the command of the Gospel. This is what must be obeyed.


Repent in those days was about turning away from one king and becoming a part of another kingdom; a superior kingdom that was at hand to overthrow the kingdom that a person was in.


“Bend the knee” or “bow the knee” to the king of a superior kingdom that at hand to overthrow another kingdom.


That was the mindset in the first century. There were no “elections” where people voted for their president.


It was kings and kingdoms. It was overcome or be overcome.


Repents means surrender to the kingdom at hand or die.


Repent to those hearing the Gospel of the kingdom therefore means turn to God in submission to Him as LORD, or perish.

The way we obey this command of the Gospel is to confess Jesus as LORD.

If we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord; our master, the one we obey.


Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God’s Son.


Here is the commission that Jesus Christ gave to Paul. Paul recounts his road to Damascus experience with king Agrippa.



So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20


Key Phrases:

• I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God

• I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God

There is more but I have go long already.

Let us take note that includes the jews too . GOD will not be denied whether one is a jew or gentile .
And if one denies JESUS is the CHRIST , guess who they just denied . GOD all MIGHTY .
There really is no other name under heaven whereby one may be SAVED . So to the trenches one
and all . And let us always remember and do not be as I once was before saving Grace came upon me .
Dont follow another jesus , cause it wont save . JESUS will never honor any sin . ever .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

I can't think of any Good Works that would damn us.

Doesn’t the Great Commission conclude with a command to teach those who have come to Christ to “obey everything I have taught you”? Apparently, Jesus considers obedience to be neither “adding to the gospel” nor an extra credit add-on for those who are really into it.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

WE do Good Works because we are saved, not to get saved.

Take note that says teaching THEM to OBEY EVERYTHING , not some things , ALL things .
We got so many now trying to behave as though
things JESUS taught and later the apostels taught no longer apply to todays generatoin .
As they twist and omit anything that gets in the way of their sin , their true hearts desire .
Dont be as i once was , i was lost in my sin and loved the darkness
but could darn sure still cliam to beleive in JESUS . Boy was i decieved and i am terrified
many are still decieved today . I never seen a delusion like the one i am seeing
take captive entire houses , churches and the world and its false religoins too .
Got them beleiving its love and of GOD . but it darn sure aint either .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Now to the trenches , man the walls the hour is late and a tidal flood of deceptoin
has taken many and is taking many down a real broad inclusive false love road to perdition .
Man the walls and sound out to all , ONLY JESUS SAVES and ONE MUST BELEIVE IN HIM to be saved .
And he darn sure dont agree with or honor any sin . that do mean ANY sin
even the politically so called correct sins . all sins must be exposed and never once
let anyone who lips the name of JESUS put him in a sin accepting unbelief accepting box . cause that is a lie .

 

[JLB]

I posted its reasonable to assume that having first been followers of John, several of the Lord’s disciples had been baptized. But there’s nothing in the Biblical record indicating that they all were, and even those who were did not receive the Holy Spirit at the time. Neither did a baptism precede either the event in the Upper Room or the Day of Pentecost.

But there’s nothing in the Biblical record indicating that they all were,

Perhaps there were, but it is not recorded as if... for them.... that was not the most important thing because they already had their faith in Jesus...... ????????

And what I just made red.

Neither did a baptism precede either the event in the Upper Room or the Day of Pentecost.
Not true. Water baptism was begun by John.
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:13-17


Water baptism began with John the Baptist.

Jesus submitted to this ministry and set a pattern for all His followers.

 

[JLB]

If it was water they may have done it to themselves...

I posted this elsewhere... re Paul 1 Cor

14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

So he would hardly have done them, except to bring the Spirit to them (no water needed)

A very good question.... I think on it.

Baptism in water is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

[JLB]

We are born again, regenerated, by water and Spirit (John 3:5) γεννηθῇ ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ Πνεύματος,

No sir.

Born of water refers to natural birth.

Born of the Spirit refers to spiritual birth.


As Jesus plainly explains in verse 6.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, = natural birth.

• and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. = spiritual birth

Jesus was using natural birth to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth.


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 3:12


Only those who are born of natural birth can be born again.


Do you understand why this was important for Jesus to teach Nicodemus that he must be born again?


Jews believed because they were the natural offspring of Abraham that they were already saved.


In other words, through natural birth from the bloodline of Abraham they were saved.


Salvation through natural birth from the lineage of Abraham.


To put it in modern terms; the Jews believed they were “elected for salvation”, through birthright.

 

[JLB]

And if one denies JESUS is the CHRIST , guess who they just denied . GOD all MIGHTY .

Come on woman of God; say it!

 

[Red Baker]

deleted

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

We are born again, regenerated, by water and Spirit (John 3:5) γεννηθῇ ἐξ ὕδατος καὶ Πνεύματος,

Jim, you are not following the context of the discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus, for if your were then you cannot believe as you are saying in this short post.

Jim, I have posted this several times over the years and I know you have read it, but one more time would be helpful, if not for you, then for someone for sure.

Jim, interpretations of scriptures must agree with their context.​

Remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We cannot violate it; learn to spot it.

A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book we are seeking to interpret.

Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.

Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.

A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.

Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must reject this abuse of words!

You have had your words used out of context before, and you hated the corruption of your intent and meaning. We must labor never do it with the precious Word of God.

This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.

Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why you asked your teacher to use them in a sentence before you would try to spell them in a spelling bee!

Even if we use a verse to teach a true point, we must sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy. Mark it!

This being said, without question Jim, Jesus would have never mention water, if Nicodemus had not first mentioned returning to his mother's womb and being born again, never. Proof, when the Lord explains rto Nicodemus how the new birth takes place, water is never mention again. Plus he even said:

John 3:6​

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

In other words, No need to return and be born of your mother again, because you still would be born of flesh ~ flesh in the scriptures has reference to our sinful nature, the reason why we must be born again of the Spirit, which birth takes place in our subconscious part, or without our participation or even our knowledge of it ~since God alone is the only active person working in creating a new man within us, after the image of Jesus Christ, by his mighty power. I agree with with @JLB on this all important truth:

No sir.

Born of water refers to natural birth.

Born of the Spirit refers to spiritual birth.


As Jesus plainly explains in verse 6.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, = natural birth.

• and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. = spiritual birth

Amen

 

[Red Baker]

@JLB

Baptism in water is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I have heard many debates on this one topic, and the best way IMO to baptized someone is done by a close friend of mine, where he said this when baptizing someone: "I now baptized you in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, even in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." All bases covered!

 

[synergy]

@Jim

Jim, you are not following the context of the discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus, for if your were then you cannot believe as you are saying in this short post.

Jim, I have posted this several times over the years and I know you have read it, but one more time would be helpful, if not for you, then for someone for sure.

Jim, interpretations of scriptures must agree with their context.​

Remember this law: A text used out of context is a pretext. We cannot violate it; learn to spot it.

A text is a word, clause, verse, paragraph, chapter, or book we are seeking to interpret.

Context is the surrounding information, which shows the author’s meaning by the text.

Out of context is using words and their sound contrary to the surrounding information.

A pretext is a false and incorrect impression designed to hide or disguise the real intent.

Using a verse contrary to its context gives a misleading and deceitful sound of words to teach something the author did not intend and/or is not true. We must reject this abuse of words!

You have had your words used out of context before, and you hated the corruption of your intent and meaning. We must labor never do it with the precious Word of God.

This rule applies to all writings and conversations of every sort, and so context is well understood by most people. Contracts, court records, novels, promises, and poetry are all understood in context, or surrounding information, to truly understand their meaning.

Even single words are meaningless without a context, which is why you asked your teacher to use them in a sentence before you would try to spell them in a spelling bee!

Even if we use a verse to teach a true point, we must sure we still honor its context. For using the wrong verse to teach the right point is the first subtle step to heresy. Mark it!

Speaking of context, the entire John Chapter 3 is soaked through and through with water. From the fact that water is mentioned as an important component of entering the Kingdom of God to the many baptisms of John, the entire John chapter 3 is soaked through and through with water.

Looks like you do not follow what you preach concerning context.

This being said, without question Jim, Jesus would have never mention water, if Nicodemus had not first mentioned returning to his mother's womb and being born again, never. Proof, when the Lord explains rto Nicodemus how the new birth takes place, water is never mention again. Plus he even said:

Huh? With that anti-contextual misguided thinking of yours then you would have to say that John would also not have written about the many baptisms of John. Your thinking is becoming more and more misguided the more you talk.

John 3:6​

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

In other words, No need to return and be born of your mother again, because you still would be born of flesh ~ flesh in the scriptures has reference to our sinful nature, the reason why we must be born again of the Spirit, which birth takes place in our subconscious part, or without our participation or even our knowledge of it ~since God alone is the only active person working in creating a new man within us, after the image of Jesus Christ, by his mighty power. I agree with with @JLB on this all important truth:

Are you trying to associate water with flesh? Since when is water flesh??? When I drink water am I drinking flesh? What in the world are you trying to say here about water???

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

The statement by Jesus in Mark 16:16, is "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".

That is a conditional. That is essentially the same as saying, "if anyone believes and is baptized then he will be saved, but if anyone does not believe then he will be condemned.

Jim, this scripture in Mark's gospel is not stating a condition in order to be born again, for there are no conditions for the new birth to be perform by man ~ that equal works, by man having an active part in his salvation from sin and condemnation, that by any definition is another gospel. Mark 16:16 is declaring a biblical truth, not conditions in order to be born again whatsoever. I have chosen my words carefully, and trust you and others will take knowledge of this.

I know you reject this truth, but it is a bible truth, so that's not my problem but yours, that the words save/saved/salvation are used in different senses in the scriptures and we must allow the context to determine for us and overall teachings of the scriptures, in what sense we must understand these words when we read them, if not, then we will leave those particularly scriptures not understanding their true biblical senses in which the Holy Ghost intended them to be understood. Mark 16:16 is a classic example of what I'm saying.

Mark 16:16​

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

Our blessed Lord Jesus chose his words carefully, and they only confuse men, whose heart is not steadfast settled in the doctrine of grace, those firmly settled should have no problem hearing the voice of Christ speaking here in Mark 16:16.

Many Baptist where I first started out had trouble with Mark 16:16 against a well studied CoC. The sound bites without question was on their side Many Baptist when they see the word saved, they only think of being saved from hellfire, when in truth, it is very seldom ever even mentioned in that sense in God's word. Saved/save are used more in a practical sense than in a legal, vital sense. Example would be helpful.

1st Timothy 4:16​

“Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.”

Timothy was already a born again child of God, yet by taking heed to reading, exhortation and many other duties commanded of us by the word of God, we can saved our ourselves (practically speaking) from false prophets, many pitfalls, and temptations, and trials that will come our way as we live out our Christian faith. There are many others we could discuss, but, our point has been made, I trust.

So, in Mark 16:16, declares plainly that unbelievers shall be damned, no question about this truth. But, one that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved, saved here is used in a practical sense only by the Lord Jesus. ALL NT believers should have a more completer knowledge of Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection than OT saints, and of thsoe who have not been baptized properly ~ one reason being is NT teaching of baptism and what water baptism shallow forth to us NT believers! One truth among a few is when we are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are confessing that we believe in his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins, we also confess by being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, we believe in a future resurrection of our body, else why are we even baptized if we do not confess this to be so with our own baptism.

1st Corinthians 15:29​

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

So, he that believeth and IS baptized shall be saved, that is .....with much more knowledge than those who have never been baptized. This scripture is not that complicated, but only made so by men who are looking for verses to support their work gospel.

I want to come back and look at Acts 2:38, a very simple verses if we stay with the context and flow of it.

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

Speaking of context, the entire John Chapter 3 is soaked through and through with water. From the fact that water is mentioned as an important component of entering the Kingdom of God to the many baptisms of John, the entire John chapter 3 is soaked through and through with water.

Yes speaking of the context of the discourse between Nicodemus and Jesus. You said:

From the fact that water is mentioned as an important component of entering the Kingdom of God to the many baptisms of John

Water is never mentioned as a component for entering the kingdom of God...the new birth is and water baptism has not one thing to do with being born gain, not one thing. The new birth is a birth by the Spirit of the Living God apart from all means whatsoever.

John 3:3​

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Seeing and entering are used interchangeably by Christ.

John 3:5
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Huh? With that anti-contextual misguided thinking of yours then you would have to say that John would also not have written about the many baptisms of John. Your thinking is becoming more and more misguided the more you talk.

You are just talking without proving you position, and that means nothing, and actually proves you have no clue what the truth is, for if you did, then you would take what I have said and prove me wrong, which you have not nor can you.

Your thinking is becoming more and more misguided the more you talk.

That's all you can do...is talk, talk, etc., without truly proving any truth, for you do have know the truth, for if you did, then you would take what I have said and prove it wrong, not just babbling with out using scriptures.

Are you trying to associate water with flesh? Since when is water flesh??? When I drink water am I drinking flesh? What in the world are you trying to say here about water???

It is hard to teach folks who have no clue what truth is and especially so those that mock truth. The Lord Jesus himself associated our first birth into this world through our mothers' womb as being born of water ~ a woman's' water breaks and a child is born, not that complicated. That which is born of flesh = our first birth into this world. CONTEXT, synergy, CONTEXT, and its flow reveals to us the truth of this discourse. If the context is not followed, then water is there for the taking for anyone to corrupt God's truth, which you are guilty of, at least for now.

 

[synergy]

@synergy

Yes speaking of the context of the discourse between Nicodemus and Jesus. You said:

So you want us to disregard the CONTEXT of the entire chapter. We can all see that you do not practice what you preach about CONTEXT.

Water is never mentioned as a component for entering the kingdom of God...the new birth is and water baptism has not one thing to do with being born gain, not one thing. The new birth is a birth by the Spirit of the Living God apart from all means whatsoever.

John 3:3​

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Seeing and entering are used interchangeably by Christ.

John 3:5
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5
“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Repeat after John 3:5: Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

You are blatantly denying what John wrote in black and white.

You are just talking without proving you position, and that means nothing, and actually proves you have no clue what the truth is, for if you did, then you would take what I have said and prove me wrong, which you have not nor can you.

That's all you can do...is talk, talk, etc., without truly proving any truth, for you do have know the truth, for if you did, then you would take what I have said and prove it wrong, not just babbling with out using scriptures.

It is hard to teach folks who have no clue what truth is and especially so those that mock truth. The Lord Jesus himself associated our first birth into this world through our mothers' womb as being born of water ~ a woman's' water breaks and a child is born, not that complicated. That which is born of flesh = our first birth into this world. CONTEXT, synergy, CONTEXT, and its flow reveals to us the truth of this discourse. If the context is not followed, then water is there for the taking for anyone to corrupt God's truth, which you are guilty of, at least for now.

Evidently, you're the one who "talk, talk, etc.." Where you go wrong is that you bend scripture to fit your presuppositions such as saying flesh is water. Now get this, now you want to equate water with amniotic fluid. Were Johns baptisms performed with amniotic fluid? When I ask for a glass of water, do I get a glass of amniotic fluid? Stop corrupting God's word all in the name of your presuppositions.

Now if you want the truth then you can start by listening to John 3:5 that does declare that you must be born of water (and Spirit) to enter the Kingdom of God. There are many passages that describe how that's done through baptism. If you are interested, I can list them out for you

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

If you are interested, I can list them out for you

Provide them and I'll do what you have not done...address each one of them after I return from a short trip early afternoon.

 

[Jim]

Excellent question. This opens the whole discussion concerning obedience and faith concerning salvation.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”
Romans 10:17

Concerning references to "obeying the gospel", I would add 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and 1 Peter 4:17. Although these both speak to the consequences for the failure to obey the gospel, the obvious implication is the consequences for obeying the gospel.

The Gospel of the kingdom of God is repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Peter said it this way -

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Repent is the command of the Gospel. This is what must be obeyed.

Yes, indeed. And how about be baptized? Is that a command that must be obeyed?

 

[synergy]

@synergy

Provide them and I'll do what you have not done...address each one of them after I return from a short trip early afternoon.

Here are some of the passages. Please refrain from bending their meaning to conform to your presuppositions. Read them exactly as they're written.

Romans 6:3–4​

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death,
that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
(Romans 6:3–4, NKJV)

Where does this "burying" and "raising" take place? It is when one believes and is subsequently "buried" in water and "raised" in water. Nobody says that they were "buried" when they first believed. Where else is that "burial" performed other than the "burial" in one's baptism.

Being buried in water signifies having been buried with Christ—dying to our old sinful nature. Being raised up from water signifies having been raised to new life in Him, born again by the power of His resurrection.

Colossians 2:12​

"Buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead."
(Colossians 2:12, NKJV)

Baptism is not a mere ritual; it is a faith-filled participation in Christ’s death and resurrection. The descent into water signifies burial and the ascent from water signifies resurrection and new birth.

These verses show that baptism is more than a symbol—it is a spiritual act that visibly expresses the inward reality of dying to sin and being reborn into the life of Christ. The water represents both the grave and the womb: the end of the old self and the beginning of a new creation.

So, when someone is plunged beneath the water, they signify that they are buried with Christ, and when they are raised up, they signify that they are born again into the newness of life, by the Spirit of God.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Come on woman of God; say it!

Not woman my friend . Now to the trenches for the hour is late . Pointing only to Christ Jesus and all lovely
pure and holy sound doctrine .

 

[GodsGrace]

@JLB

I have heard many debates on this one topic, and the best way IMO to baptized someone is done by a close friend of mine, where he said this when baptizing someone: "I now baptized you in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost, even in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." All bases covered!

Isn't Jesus the Son??

 

[Jim]

No sir.

Born of water refers to natural birth.

With all due respect that is really quite silly. Born of water was never stated as a euphemism for natural births anywhere in the Bible. It is not now a euphemism for the natural birth and has it never been one.

Besides in John 3:5 Jesus is answering Nicodemus' question about Jesus' statement of being born again. Jesus' answer was that to be born again was to be born of water and Spirit. Clearly being born again can't have anything to do with the physical birth.

Born of the Spirit refers to spiritual birth.

Yes, the first time when God formed the spirit of man in him.

As Jesus plainly explains in verse 6.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, = natural birth.

• and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. = spiritual birth

Jesus was using natural birth to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth.

No Jesus was not using the natural birth to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth. He is saying that the flesh of man comes from flesh, i.e., parents, and the spirit of man comes from Spirit, i.e., God. It is the spirit not the flesh that needs to be reborn. The spirit of man needs to be reborn of water and Spirit. The spirit of man was born initially by God at or before (I believe at conception) physical birth. It became dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) and needed to be reborn to bring it back to life. It needed to be reborn of water and Spirit. I believe Peter Sermon at Pentecost describes the rebirth of water and Spirit in Acts 2:38 and elsewhere (cf. Acts 19:1-7; Rom 6:1-6; Col 2:11-12)/

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 3:12


Only those who are born of natural birth can be born again.

And who exactly was not born of natural birth?

Do you understand why this was important for Jesus to teach Nicodemus that he must be born again?

Yes it is because his spirit, first born of God when he was born from his mother's womb became dead in his trespasses and sins and thus needed to be reborn of water and Spirit.

Jews believed because they were the natural offspring of Abraham that they were already saved.

That is true. That false narrative was a major topic of Romans 9.