Excellent Discussion on OSAS

[Studyman]

This was stated on the Passover. Jesus was referring to Himself being the Passover Lamb.

Yes, HE said:

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, "ye have no life in you".

Since you are preaching to everyone on this forum, that because I don't go around murdering people who don't respect God in His Sabbath Commandment, or Adultery commandment, or murder those who curse their father, I am disobedient to God, because the God says:

Ex. 21: 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Ex. 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Lev. 20: 10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


Then it is only just that given you declare to the world that you are eternally "Saved by the Blood of Jesus", you share with others where you found the Flesh of Jesus to eat, and if you ate it raw, or cooked. And where you found the Blood of Jesus to Drink. After all HE DID SAY:

John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, "Except" ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, "ye have no life in you".

Don't be a respecter of person JLB

Don't place burdens on my neck, that you are not willing to lift with even one fingers.

Do you believe it’s a sin to eat pork?

I believe in the Jesus "of the Bible", and HE said to "Live by" God's Words. And when I asked Jesus:

Jesus, what shall I eat, and what shall I drink, and with what shall I be covered with?

And Jesus said:

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father "knoweth" that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and "his" righteousness; and "all these things" shall be added unto you.

So when a man obeys the Sayings, I mean, not just "hear" them, but actually "DO" them, here is what he will find even in your own Bible.

Lev. 11: 45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt,(SIN) to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast "that may be eaten" and the beast "that may not be eaten."

So it is true JLB, that in the Garden God placed us in, there are "many" voices, who "Profess to know God", who even quote "SOME" of God's Word, to convince men not to listen to God, even about something as simple and easy to understand as "what to eat" or "what not to eat". In fact, the very first ever recorded deception known to man, was a deceiver who professed to know God, even quoted "some" of God Word, to convince Eve that Gods Word was not to be trusted, even concerning some as simple and easy to understand as "what to eat" and "what not to eat".

So I know what you and Red preach to the world is "Food" and this is truly a popular philosophy. But here is what the Spirit of Christ, that became flesh and blood, actually said, when I following the instruction of the Christ of the Bible;

Lev. 11: 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

So given all these Biblical Truths, not my Words, but the Christ's, what spirit from within my heart, would entice me to lust after, what God has clearly told me to "Abstain" from, because it is not "Food" according to His Judgments? Didn't Jesus say it is the rebellion against God that comes from "within", that defiles a man?

Does it matter? As I have said from the start, let each man be convinced in his own mind who to listen to.

I choose the Gospel of the Spirit of the Christ "of the Bible", who Inspired Moses in the first place, and I am not ashamed. "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith (of Abraham) to faith( of Isaiah) as it is written, The just shall live by faith. (Hab. 2:4)

Shall I not believe in Him, even if "many" in the world God placed me in, "who call Him Lord, Lord, doesn't?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I quoted what you wrote and did not rewrite it. Here is more of what you said.

What God choses to do beyond what He has promised is entirely up to God. If He chooses to save any who refuse to be baptized, that is His choice. But nowhere in the NT does God ever say that He will save anyone who is not baptized.

What you said additionally about God choosing to go beyond what He promised and save any who refuse to be baptized but the NT nowhere says He will sounds like double speak. Why would a genuine believer refuse to be baptized? Either you believe that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation or else you don't.

another one who does not understand what he says, or really believe what he says..

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

You are the one dancing around his question.

@JLB was not asking a question concerning mortifying the deeds of the old man and putting him to death, which is a totally different topic from the direct question he asked you ~ which was:

I disagree, based on what is actually written in Scriptures.

1 cor. 5: 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge "them that are within"? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away "from among yourselves" that wicked person.

Duet. 13: 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken "to turn you away from the LORD your God", which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee "out of the way" "which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in". So shalt thou "put the evil away from the midst of thee."

Duet. 22: 22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: "so shalt thou put away evil from Israel".

Duet. 17: 12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and "thou shalt put away the evil from Israel".

So Paul said all these Words, Inspired by God, are Spiritual, and are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.", and of the Exodus " these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted", and that "all these things happened unto them "for ensamples": and they are written for "our admonition", upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So for all these things to be true, and I believe they are, how do they apply to me?

I consider all the lusts and rebellion written as example for me, as thoughts in my mind, where the Temple of God is supposed to dwell. There are preachers/prophets in this world God placed me into who preach doctrines and traditions of men that promoted by the prince of this world "to turn me away from the LORD my God" . But only if I allow them to live in God's Temple. And if I find his teaching in the temple of God, or God reveals in me this man of Sin, I am to "put him to death".

So if a thought about another woman enters my mind, it is to be destroyed completely. The man in me who brought that thought, put to death, and in doing so, I "put away "from among myself" that wicked person". If I bring your sermon, or Kenneth Copeland, or the Pope or no matter who it is, into my mind, that if listened to "would turn me away from the Lord my God, the Christ "of the Bible", I am to utterly destroy that thought, man woman, children, cattle, every part of that wicked thought must be destroyed. I am not to hide some of it from others, like Akin did. I am not to keep some of the spoil, like King Saul did. I am to wipe the "man of Sin" within me, completely out. I am to "Rule over" the man of Sin. This has been the Gospel of Christ since Cain and Abel.

This is why Paul said the Laws of God were "Written for OUR Sakes, no doubt". Everything He taught, came from the Law and Prophets that he called "The Gospel of Christ".

You don't have a clue, because you promote a different Christ. One who didn't Inspire Moses and the Prophets. A Christ who teaches that God's Laws are against us. No better that Pagan rituals. or other traditions of men.

He exposed this world's religious system, the "other voice" which exists in the garden HE placed us in, who convince others not to listen to God. He shows us that the deceiver to watch out for, is the one who "Calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejects God's Judgments, Commandments and Laws, AKA, "Works Iniquity".

Every possible Sinful thought I can ever have, is addressed in the Law and Prophets. Everything I will ever Need to Endure in this Life, the Jesus "of the Bible" has given to me in His Inspired Word.

Of course, this is all gibberish to you, because you believe you were chosen by a fictitious Holy Lottery System. But I know there are others reading along, who understands what I'm saying.

 

[Red Baker]

@synery @Jim @MTMattie

You are mistaken if you think that freedom allows you to turn a blind eye to verses where Jesus mentioned the necessity of water (and Spirit obviously) and later, in the very same chapter, John's Baptism ministry and the Baptism of Jesus is mentioned. No coincidence there. Everything aligns perfectly together to shoot down any calvinist presupposition.

John 3:1-8~There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

In a few words, let's consider a couple of point, essential in coming to the knowledge of the truth concerning these scriptures. I have covered John 3:1-8 many times during my life as a believer, that expands over fifty years, most of which I have had to defend these very scriptures against men who taught baptismal regeneration , even though they will not admit that they are teaching one is born again when they are baptized, most of them (not all) truly believe they are and it is God means or channel, by which he saves sinners. Some like @ Jim, allows salvation from sin and condemnation to take place without baptism, but he still defends water baptism as God's appointed means to forgive sinners. This is still a serious error. Others like @MTMattie puts little emphasis on water baptism even to a point that she said:

It’s reasonable to assume that having first been followers of John, several of the Lord’s disciples had been baptized. But there’s nothing in the Biblical record indicating that they all were, and even those who were did not receive the Holy Spirit at the time. Neither did a baptism precede either the event in the Upper Room or the Day of Pentecost.

Several errors in that one statements ~but one which I highlighted is where she would even think that all of the Lord's apostles may not have been baptized, which shows a seriously lack of biblical knowledge on her part to even make such an statement, Especially so in light of such scriptures as:

Acts 10:48​

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Why would Peter command the Gentiles to be baptized, if some of the Lord's own personal disciples were not, of course they were, it is the first act of faith one does to give an answer of his good conscience to God ~ without baptism, one has not yet been obedience to all of the word of God, not even taking the first step, which is a sign that they do not believe if one is physical able to be baptized in water. Water baptism is an act of joining oneself to the religion/faith of Jesus Christ that he/she professes to believe in.

John 3:5
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Without going through all of John 3:1-8 again, since I just went through it a couple of weeks ago, I'll say this:

Context will drive our interpretation of God's words, especially so in this discourse between Nicodemus and Christ. If Nicodemus had not mentioned entering into his mother's womb again to be born, then the Lord would have NEVER mention water, which is proven by the very fact water is NOT mentioned by the Lord when he explains the new birth in verse 7.

When a child is born into this world, the mother's water breaks and a child is born, pure and simple by following the context, and not some bias agenda one has to protect and put forth. The new birth is a birth by God's Spirit alone, being the only active person working when this birth takes place as described by the Lord.

I could say so much more and have in time past, but I'll stop here for now. Water baptism has not one thing to do with a person being born again, not one. Yet, all who believe are commanded to arise and be baptized, for baptism is a perfect picture of how one sins are forgiven: by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God given for the sins of God's elect.

 

[GodsGrace]

this is not about calvinism, this is about universalism

you appear to have CDS.

UNIVERSALIST STATE ALL ARE SAVED

CALVINIST REJECT THIS NOTION STAING ONLY THE ELECT WILL BE SAVED, ALL OTHERS WILL BE LOST

So THEY ARE NOT UNIVERSALIST


YOUR DESTROYING YOUR OWN INTEGRITY BY ATTACKING CALVINISM WITH A FAST TRUTH. IT HURTS NOT ONLY YOUR ARGUMENT AGAINST THEM, BUT PROVES YOUR HATE AGAINST THEM HAS YOU BLIND

@GodsGrace Aare you going to jump in. you claimed I was mistaken and misunderstood him.. do you see now I was correct in my assumption?

I know that @synergy does not believe in universalism.
I think there's a misunderstanding going on here.
He also does not agree with Calvinism...and you also do not.

So I'm not sure which post of mine you're referring to.
But I'm sure synergy could express perfectly what he believes to be true.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Eternally-Grateful
I think you're referring to post 1606.
Yes. It's a misunderstanding....

What synergy is saying is that IF calvinism were true then
God's desire that all come to salvation...would mean that ALL men would be saved (universalism)
because it's God's will (He's sovereign) and since man has no say in the matter,,,
then this is what WOULD be true if Calvinism were correct.

Which it's not.

 

[GodsGrace]

not from salvation..

yes

salvation is a gift. your not in a race to get saved.

same could be said of you..

Of course I won't change.
What I state is too obvious.

Paul used a race as an example.
Look to what lengths you'll go !

Paul said the he might be disqualified.
If a person is disqualified, he is no longer in the race...

Paul compares a race to the life we must live to please God until the race is finished..
at the end of our lives.

 

[GodsGrace]

for salvation yes

but faith is never alone

if you read the verses I posted. that is what it says. ever time, I showed no works included or involved.


for salvation no. salvation has been by grace through faith since noah

yes. Because you are saved.

not to get saved.

everyone should be baptized. and do everything God commands

it is sufficient, because the gift of the spirit is based on repentance and faith only.. (actually as paul said, it is by grace only.. not faith only.. But by grace through faith. God does not force it on you as the Calvinist would insist)

yes.

if your saved, you will be rewarded

if you do it to get saved, it is a self righteous works in order to gain something for yourself. not serve god or others

If we better do everything God commands...
then we better do some good works !

And if you got baptized...you just added something to faith.

Faith Alone is a new idea that never existed in the early church.
Just like Calvinism...
JWs....
Mormonism...
7th Day Adventists...
etc.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I know that @synergy does not believe in universalism.

I know he does not either. that was not my argument

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here.
He also does not agree with Calvinism...and you also do not.

He states calvinists are universalists.

So I'm not sure which post of mine you're referring to.
But I'm sure synergy could express perfectly what he believes to be true.

it was this post. when I called Synergy for saying calvinistsd are universalists

LOL
Synergy is not saying Calvinists are universalists!
He's making a point.

so do you think after reading all his responses to me he does not believe they are? I mean he came out and specifically said it word for word

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful
I think you're referring to post 1606.
Yes. It's a misunderstanding....

What synergy is saying is that IF calvinism were true then
God's desire that all come to salvation...would mean that ALL men would be saved (universalism)
because it's God's will (He's sovereign) and since man has no say in the matter,,,
then this is what WOULD be true if Calvinism were correct.

Which it's not.

No he is not saying this

He said plainly ALL CALVINISTS ARE UNIVERSALISTS

he is trying to make an argument against them that fails. because he knows they are not universalists

I should have known better than to think you would call someone out who is on your side.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Of course I won't change.
What I state is too obvious.

Yes this is obvious, and sad.

Paul used a race as an example.
Look to what lengths you'll go !

lengths I will go?

Paul did not say we have a race to get saved,, your adding to the word

Salvation is a gift not a reward or a prise.

Paul said the he might be disqualified.

yes from preaching the gospel.. Like you know some popular evenagelists have done because of some sins they got caught up in?

I worry about the same thing..

If a person is disqualified, he is no longer in the race...

Yes.

SALVATION IS NOT SOMETHING WE EARN IN A RACE

How many times do I have to spell this out for you

You claim you are not trying to earn salvation.

yet here you are saying your in a race trying not to be disqualified and lose your salvation.

you contradict yourself. then say I will not change. why would I change when you are inconsistent with your own words.

Paul compares a race to the life we must live to please God until the race is finished..
at the end of our lives.

then no one will get to heaven

once again, perfection is required

You want to try to earn salvation. feel free. I will tell you right now. YOU WILL FAIL!

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If we better do everything God commands...
then we better do some good works !

you better be perfect.

I do works all the time, But I am not perfect. I still sin and fall short of Gods standard.

And if you got baptized...you just added something to faith.

No. I got baptized BECAUSE of my faith. and BECAUSE I trusted God in obeying this command

this is not the same as trusting god to save me, two different things we are trusting. to you trust God in everything? do you still sin?

Faith Alone is a new idea that never existed in the early church.

Your right, it is grace alone we are not saved by faith we are saved through faith

then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar

I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE. But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

so again, paul and jesus both reject this faith plus works theology

Just like Calvinism...
JWs....
Mormonism...
7th Day Adventists...
etc.

you put to much into history.

the jews did that. and we see where they got them

you would be smart to learn from their mistake

 

[MTMattie]

Several errors in that one statements ~but one which I highlighted is where she would even think that all of the Lord's apostles may not have been baptized, which shows a seriously lack of biblical knowledge on her part to even make such an statement, Especially so in light of such scriptures as:

Acts 10:48​

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

Who baptized them?

Was it ~Yes, it is generally believed that all the apostles were baptized, likely by Jesus or during the time of his ministry. However, the specific details and timing of their baptisms are not clearly mentioned in the Scriptures.

Why is there no mention of the apostles being baptized in the Bible? – Evidence for Christianity

evidenceforchristianity.org

There is a good reason you cannot find any passages mentioning the baptism of the apostles. This is because there is no such passage. This is one of those interesting mysteries. In fact, there are really two mysteries. One is whether or not the apostles were baptized at all. Another mystery is why the conversion of the apostles is not even mentioned. Bottom line, the Bible does not tell us one way or another. I assume that if we needed to know God would have told us.

Was it...https://www.catholic.com/qa/were-the-apostles-baptized

When were the apostles baptized? Scripture is not clear, but it was either sometime during the time between Christ’s Resurrection and Ascension or on the day of Pentecost. Because Luke doesn’t speak of the apostles’ own baptism in Acts 2, I would argue for the earlier time period.


Pre-Denominational Christianity

https://predenominationalchristianity.com › 2022 › 03 › 03 › bible-qa-were-the-apostles-baptized

Bible Q&A: Were the Apostles Baptized? - Pre-Denominational Christianity​

After Jesus' death and resurrection, and upon His command to be baptized into Christ for the forgiveness of sins, it is clear that all - including the apostles - would have had to have been baptized with the "one baptism" into His death so they could be raised as He was

Was it ~

According to the Bible, which of Jesus' Apostles were baptised in water?​

Feb 1, 2024Unlike the baptism of Jesus (Matthew 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22) there is no explicit statement any of the twelve Apostles were baptized by John the Baptist. Nevertheless, it is likely they were among those who heard and responded to John the Baptist's

Baptized in Water? Part 1​

The argument is, of course, entirely circular — it assumes the necessity of water baptism in all cases, and then "proves" the apostles were water baptism based on its assumption. Moreover, the text plainly indicates the apostles — and the rest of the 120 — were not water baptized, at least, not at Pentecost.

There is nothing in the Scriptures that describes the apostles having been baptized by Jesus — but of course the Gospels provide only the broad outlines of the public life of Christ and not every detail.

I think that it would be safe to assume that Jesus did baptize the Twelve. Just before his ascension, Jesus makes it clear that baptism is a basic part of becoming his disciple; in the final words of Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus commissions the apostles to “go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”

In John’s Gospel (3:22), we read that, “after this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing.” So I take it as a logical conclusion that Jesus had first baptized his own apostles.

Another vote for Jesus...

Were the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus?

Question: Were the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus? Answer: Right after telling Nicodemus that no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born of water and the Spirit (John 3:5), we read i…

www.lavistachurchofchrist.org

Right after telling Nicodemus that no one can enter the kingdom unless they are born of water and the Spirit (John 3:5), we read in John 3:22, "After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He remained with them and baptized."

John's followers became upset by Jesus' baptisms. "And they came to John and said to him, 'Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified -- behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!'" (John 3:26). John explains that this was what was supposed to happen.

The Jews also took note of the baptisms. "Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again to Galilee" (John 4:1-3).

So not only was Jesus baptizing disciples, he actually baptized more than John, all prior to His death. Since His disciples were performing the baptisms, it is safe to assume that they had been baptized in the name of Jesus, since it was Jesus who authorized this baptism. Twelve of these early disciples became the apostles.

Here is an article by Jack Cotrelel @Jim

WHEN WERE THE APOSTLES BAPTIZED?

ANSWER: Since we are not specifically told when (or even if) the apostles were baptized with Christian baptism, we can only speculate about it. One thing is for sure: whether they had been baptized with John’s baptism is irrelevant, since John’s baptism was for a completely different purpose than Christian baptism. There was no Christian baptism until the Day of Pentecost; from that point on anyone who had been baptized with John’s baptism was required to receive Christian baptism, i.e., immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. I believe that is why Peter says in Acts 2:38 “be baptized every one of you.” Many if not most in that audience would have already been baptized with John’s baptism, and may have assumed that Peter’s command did not apply to them. To negate such a possible misunderstanding, Peter makes it clear that every individual listening to him preach was required to receive Christian baptism.

So... I standby what I wrote.

It’s reasonable to assume that having first been followers of John, several of the Lord’s disciples had been baptized. But there’s nothing in the Biblical record indicating that they all were, and even those who were did not receive the Holy Spirit at the time. Neither did a baptism precede either the event in the Upper Room or the Day of Pentecost.

Red, you need to quit adding your thoughts into the written word.

John 3:5
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Without going through all of John 3:1-8 again, since I just went through it a couple of weeks ago, I'll say this:

Verse 5: Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Verse 6: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I'll let this one be for you to figure out. I am tired of explaining it.

 

[Selah]

What’s with all the fussing?

Why not just praise the Lord?

 

[MTMattie]

What’s with all the fussing?

Why not just praise the Lord?
View attachment 2013

You speakin to me?

I do praise the Lord, always, but some say I do it wrong.

 

[Selah]

You speakin to me?

I do praise the Lord, always, but some say I do it wrong.

Naw… I’m speaking generally. Fuss, fuss, fuss. How is this edifying?

 

[MTMattie]

Naw… I’m speaking generally. Fuss, fuss, fuss.View attachment 2014 How is this edifying?

That may possibly be the most profoundly truthful question anyone has asked all day.

 

[Jim]

we have, multiple times

Do you understand the difference between the logical clause of "IF" and the logical clause of "IF and ONLY IF"? It seems not.

 

[JLB]

What else could I possibly infer, given your refusal to even acknowledge or engage in my first kind, and heart felt answer to your question showing you exactly, in detail what I believe and why. Your question was a set up. You know it was and I know it was. If you were really interested in understanding what I believe, you would address my reply where I explained to you what I believe. But you didn't. Instead you accuse me of "Spiritualizing God's Word to suit my own narrative". And why? Because I don't believe God was instructing "me" or anyone else, to go around murdering people. Just as I don't believe I need to search throughout Jerusalem to find some remnant or Christ's Flesh to eat, or Christ's Blood to drink before I can live?

You somehow believe that God commanded "ME" to murder people for breaking God's Sabbaths. While it is true that I was "dead in trespasses and Sins" in times pass, for transgressing God's commandments, tell me, who killed me? Didn't Paul say the "Commandment came, and he died"? Who brought the Commandment to Paul? The Pope, Gamaliel?? Or was it Moses, Joshua, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Paul, James? Aren't these people the "Congregation of the Lord"?

Sadly, you will probably continue to not be interested in understanding what I believe, and will not engage or answer my questions here. And that's not my fault, it comes from within your heart, not mine.

Where did God instruct you or me to put folks to death? Didn't God tell you and me, "thou shall not Kill"? Jesus obeyed God's Laws perfectly, surely even you must believe this. Did Jesus go around stoning people to death for transgressing God's commandments by their own religious traditions?? And yet they too, were dead in Trespasses and Sins!

Who killed them?

But you are not interested in understanding what I believe, or why? If you were, we could have a discussion about these things. Instead, your question was for the purpose of tricking me, to trip me up. It was no different than the mainstream preachers of Jesus time and their questions for HIM. They were not interested in trying to "understand what HE believed", they had already condemned Him in their heart, and were playing "Gotcha games with Him. And if you were to be honest with yourself, you would know, as I do, that you are doing the same thing.

Do you believe people are to be put to death for picking up sticks to make a fire on the Sabbath?

That what the law of Moses requires.


Yes or no.


You have dodged this question several times now.


Why don’t you just answer?

 

[JLB]

What else could I possibly infer, given your refusal to even acknowledge or engage in my first kind, and heart felt answer to your question showing you exactly, in detail what I believe and why. Your question was a set up. You know it was and I know it was. If you were really interested in understanding what I believe, you would address my reply where I explained to you what I believe. But you didn't. Instead you accuse me of "Spiritualizing God's Word to suit my own narrative". And why? Because I don't believe God was instructing "me" or anyone else, to go around murdering people. Just as I don't believe I need to search throughout Jerusalem to find some remnant or Christ's Flesh to eat, or Christ's Blood to drink before I can live?

You somehow believe that God commanded "ME" to murder people for breaking God's Sabbaths. While it is true that I was "dead in trespasses and Sins" in times pass, for transgressing God's commandments, tell me, who killed me? Didn't Paul say the "Commandment came, and he died"? Who brought the Commandment to Paul? The Pope, Gamaliel?? Or was it Moses, Joshua, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Paul, James? Aren't these people the "Congregation of the Lord"?

Sadly, you will probably continue to not be interested in understanding what I believe, and will not engage or answer my questions here. And that's not my fault, it comes from within your heart, not mine.

Where did God instruct you or me to put folks to death? Didn't God tell you and me, "thou shall not Kill"? Jesus obeyed God's Laws perfectly, surely even you must believe this. Did Jesus go around stoning people to death for transgressing God's commandments by their own religious traditions?? And yet they too, were dead in Trespasses and Sins!

Who killed them?

But you are not interested in understanding what I believe, or why? If you were, we could have a discussion about these things. Instead, your question was for the purpose of tricking me, to trip me up. It was no different than the mainstream preachers of Jesus time and their questions for HIM. They were not interested in trying to "understand what HE believed", they had already condemned Him in their heart, and were playing "Gotcha games with Him. And if you were to be honest with yourself, you would know, as I do, that you are doing the same thing.



You go ahead and tell yourself and others that if you want. But by your "Works" I know it is not true.


You tell me where you found the Flesh of Jesus to eat, and the Blood of Jesus to Drink, since you promote that you are "Saved" by the Blood of Jesus. When you show me where you found His Flesh and His Blood, and how you ate and drank them, I will show you my beliefs concerning waiting until the "Last Day" to prepare for the "Last Day".

Do you believe men are required to become physically circumcised to be in the New Covenant?