Excellent Discussion on OSAS

The Perfect tense in the Greek means a completed action in the past, an ongoing reality in the present and continues into the future.

Salvation, saved in Ephesians 2:8 says we have been saved ( perfect indicative mood ). Salvation has a past, present and future reality in the same way justification and sanctification has a past, present and future reality.
 
The Perfect tense in the Greek means a completed action in the past, an ongoing reality in the present and continues into the future.

Salvation, saved in Ephesians 2:8 says we have been saved ( perfect indicative mood ). Salvation has a past, present and future reality in the same was justification and sanctification has a past, present and future reality.
Bingo.

anything that says otherwise. Makes the word of God contradict itself. and should be rejected as truth
 
do you believe a child of God can walk continually according to the flesh?
Exactly. Romans 8:5-11 sums it right up. Nothing is mentioned about those in Christ continually walking in the flesh and losing salvation in Romans 8:1. That eisegesis stems from "type 2 work salvation" or salvation by works at the back door.
 
Anyone that has not watched the Q/A video where they discuss the Calvinist and Arminian perspective of a salvific faith and a professed faith. Its a good discussion.
 
The Perfect tense in the Greek means a completed action in the past, an ongoing reality in the present and continues into the future.
Good to see you are not adverse in studying the grammar civic.

The Greek Perfect tense primarily indicates a past action with a present result, but it does not inherently carry the idea of continuing into the future.

The continuation depends on the context of the statement rather than the tense itself.

J.
 
Exactly. Romans 8:5-11 sums it right up. Nothing is mentioned about those in Christ continually walking in the flesh and losing salvation in Romans 8:1. That eisegesis stems from "type 2 work salvation" or salvation by works at the back door.
sadly, the KJV of romans 8: 1 I believe is a typo.. It repeats the words of a few verses later.

(and I am a NKJV fan, it is my main bible)

even so. even if it is literally the word of God. It is descriptive (this is what they do) not prescriptive ) this is what they must do to remain in a non condemned state)
 
sadly, the KJV of romans 8: 1 I believe is a typo.. It repeats the words of a few verses later.

(and I am a NKJV fan, it is my main bible)

even so. even if it is literally the word of God. It is descriptive (this is what they do) not prescriptive ) this is what they must do to remain in a non condemned state)
Those who promote salvation obtained by works and/or maintaind by works will typically confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.
 
@Studyman
Your self exaltation notwithstanding, you are free to feed yourself and feed your children and grandchildren blood, or maggots or swine's flesh, or whatever your flesh desires to feed them, and brag about it on this forum. I no longer care.
Never have I said that one should drink blood, eat maggots! So you are presenting a Strawman argument ~ now concerning eating pork, I can enjoy, once I offer unto God thanksgiving for all of the blessings of heaven that he has been pleased to provide for us tp eat with thanksgiving.

1 Timothy 4:3​

“Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”

Studyman, there are some things that I may not eat, only because of personal taste and thoughts of eating it, yet, truly NOTHING is to be consider spiritually unclean for a child of God. And I certainly should never judge anyone for what they may chose to eat, even though I may never will eat what certain things others might eat. It is call Christian LIBERTY, if not condemned by God's word.
I have come to expect nothing more from you.
I'm not your servant, yet if you were invited to my home, I would NEVER have pork in your presence and offer it to you ~ to a certain point, then I would have pork, etc., in your presence if you made it a commandment that I do not eat pork. We cannot go through life living by other men's conscience, and allowing them to lord over ours.
But we both know that if the Jesus "of the Bible" came to your house in all HIS Glory and Power, with His Army of Angels, for breakfast, you wouldn't offer HIM sausage and pancakes.
That scenario would never happen, but if it did, I would offer them whatever I was having, and post Calvary, and the Lord would eat it. If I was having barbecue, pork ribs, etc., that would be what I would offer any quest. Acts 10; Galatians 2; etc. I FIRST would offer up thanksgiving whether in public before kings, etc., or by myself, I would NEVER eat without thanking God for his goodness in proving our needs.
Your signature move is to take one verse out of the Bible, and twist it to justify your rejection of whichever of God's Righteousness that you despise.
Despise? Name one that I despise. God is my witness, that I love his word and would never despise any part of it, never. Now, that being said, I DO despise man made commandments and traditions., that turns men from the truth of the gospel. Like:
I'm against teachings of men that basically teaches us: drink NOT; Touch NOT; Taste/eat NOT; handle NOT; go NOT wear NOT; etc. The key is MODERATION in ALL THINGS. True religion is NOT black and white, there are many grey areas which we must be careful with not imposing our convictions on other saints. I have lived by this and will continue to do so by God's help.
I wouldn't have even known to Abstain from eating blood, snails or swine's flesh etc., unless God's Law had said, "ye shall not eat of their flesh".

You know this Red, but you reject it, and you justify your rejection by posting ONE verse, and then lying about it, as if the "Commandment to Abstain from drinking blood, or eating maggots, slugs or swine's flesh, is a "Commandment of men". and NOT a Commandment of God.

Doers it matter to God? Is it a big deal? I guess each person needs to work that out "with fear and trembling".

What I am doing here, is exposing the lie being peddled by the promoters of this world's religious system, that the Commandment to Abstain from drinking blood, and eating maggots or swine's flesh, etc., is NOT a commandment of men, or Rudiment of this world, as Red is falsely promoting here. It is a Commandment of God that Jesus, all the Apostles, the first Church under God's New High Priest, and the New Gentile converts were instructed to, walked in.

This is undeniable Biblical Truth. That's all I'm saying.


I would prefer you rectify the falsehood you are promoting about Ephesians 2, before you continue with the falsehoods you are promoting about Acts 15.
I have someone coming that I must met with, I'm coming back to finish this one and to answer another one you sent.
 
Also in the OP video they address the 3 categories of people

1- genuinely saved
2- lost, never saved
3- carnal christians/ back-sliders

We do not know the wheat from the tares in Matthew 13- Jesus will reveal it at Judgement Day. We don't know who is saved and who is not. Our job is to call people to faith and repentance. Leave Judging the hearts to Jesus.
 
Again, you just don't get it.
Am I mistaken to believe that my Bible labels as tares those nonbelievers that are mixed in with believers? Read up on what happens to tares in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares. Where does the Bible say that tares are allowed to self attach themselves to the Spiritual Vine? :unsure:
 
Luke says they believe for awhile and fall away.

Only two ways to salvage that passage for OSAS:

1. It wasn't real belief, even though it calls it real belief.
2. Falling away is still saved, just falling to lesser rewards.

Neither one fits the context.
You missed the heart of the issue. Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It doesn't so there is no loss of salvation here. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.

IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. *Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size and was referred to as "good ground" and produced a crop (fruit) and persevered.
 
This is a good discussion to work through and my hope is we can keep things civil and not make anything personal with those who have different opinions. Good job so far and lets respect our brothers/sister in Christ who see things differently than we do.
 
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