@jeremiah1five
1. You yourself have never calimed to be Hebraic Jew. I have challenged you many times that you are not and yet you have
not corrected me if I am wrong.
Because God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed, then only those who are of his seed are and can be saved. I have said that the Jews and mixed-race Jews (Jew-Gentile offspring) of the Diaspora were taken back to Assyria and Babylon in 722 and 586 BC, are still the seed of Abraham although they were born and grew up in Gentile lands for over 700 years until the ascension of Christ. That's 29-35 generations of Jews and mixed-race Jews who grew up and lived partially or fully assimilated into Gentile customs, culture, religion, language, dress, diet, and everything else you can name of non-Hebrew ways and means, but because they are Abraham's seed STILL, God had begun to birth them into His body which led to the Jerusalem Council in AD 50 (Acts 15.)
These mixed-race Jews of Gentile offspring begun to be born-again and because they were of Hebrew heritage the question as to whether they should be circumcised (most were uncircumcised) came up as there were Jews who taught in churches that they had to be circumcised if given the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL BY GOD (Joel) and were now joined to the "commonwealth of Israel" and no longer strangers to the "covenants of promise." Saul addressed these Jews and mixed-race Jews in each and every letter he wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians, and we have copies of those letters in the New Testament Bible:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time
ye were without Christ, being
aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
strangers from the covenants of promise, having
no hope, and
without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Ephesians 2:11–13.
Knowing fully without any doubt I have been given the Holy Spirit of Promise, I am among those Hebrews and mixed-race Hebrews who are "afar off" and speak in tongues, can tell you that God's promise to Abram and his Hebrew seed means I would have to have at least one Hebrew parent in my ancestry was born in these United States (Gentile land), and grew up American fully in speech, diet, culture, dress, and think as Gentile, so, just like the Jews of the Diaspora I am the offspring of Jews of the Diaspora who have centuries later left the continent of Europe, crossed the Atlantic Ocean, and for several generations live in this Gentile land. So, having more fully explained the deep similarities of my race - Hebrew and Gentile mix - is the perfect example of what Jews experienced living in Gentile lands during and after their Exile called "Diaspora."
2. I just wonder , when the large percentage of membership in this forum is non-Hebraic Jewish why you are here and why
you want to grind your opinion into the fibers of these threads if you are correct and we can do noting about it.... or perhaps
if we got a donor and did a complete blood transfusion that would count?
God does not lie. God also scattered the Hebrew people among Gentiles four time in history:
1. Assyrian Conquest and Exile of the northern kingdom tribes - 722 BC
2. Babylonian Conquest and Exile of the southern kingdom tribes - 586 BC
3. Roman defeat of Israel AD 70 who passed laws forbidding Jews returning to their homeland
4. Persecution of Jews out of Germany and other European nations 1930s-1945 CE.
Jews are living today in Gentile nations and while some have returned or remain committed to the Law and the covenants, others have fully assimilated into Gentile culture. Everyone in America when asked to trace their ancestry cannot go back no further than the 1500s in some instances, would not and could not know whether they are descendants of any Hebrew families of mixed-race families. BUT God did promise His Spirit to Israel (Hebrews) so, if you are born again must have at least one Hebrew parent in their ancestry and not actually know it. The one thing about seeing this as Biblically as possible cannot prove a Hebrew in their ancestry nor can they disprove an Hebrew in their ancestry, but can only surmise' this as factual given that God promised His Spirit to Israel (Hebrews of Abrahamic seed) and God does not lie, so if you are born-again by the Holy Spirit, according to Scripture you must be Hebrew or have a Hebrew in your ancestry - something not at all unreasonable.
3. Are you trying to make the non Hebraic Jew upset or nervous.
Nope.
4. Now as to your charge that there is zero Gentile covenant....
This is true and we must take Scripture as written and not add to the Bible and not subtract from the Bible but take Scripture at face value to receive our doctrine, our reproof, our correction, our instruction in righteousness from Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17.)
I hit the Ai to look things up because I am tired of looking up things and posting things you do not understand. First response is
1. God
a. The Noahic covenant (Genesis 9)
This covenant is explicitly with all humanity, not just Israel:
Noah was not “Jewish,” and the covenant applies universally. That alone disproves the claim.
b. The Abrahamic covenant was
While the covenant was made through Abraham’s line, it was never restricted to ethnic Israel:
Actually, it was. The Abrahamic Covenant is recorded and described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17, and the covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles included in this covenant. But if you have a Scripture that identifies non-Hebrews in the Abraham Covenant please share it now, and while you're at it provide the name of this non-Hebrew you claim is recipient of a covenant with God for their salvation.
Paul explicitly interprets this as the gospel preached beforehand to the Gentiles:
The covenant is mediated through Israel, not limited to Israel.
God sent the eleven and later, Saul, AMONG or TO the Gentiles because that's where the Jews lived and it was important to God to let them know the One He Promised Israel had arrived - and departed - and will come again. Why shouldn't God sent people to Gentiles and to look for Jews who lived among Gentiles to tell them their Messiah, Lord, and King had come?
2. Gentiles could join the covenant
Gentiles were never excluded in principle.
No, non-Hebrews do not have a covenant God made with them for their salvation.
If God wanted non-Hebrews in the Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New Covenants He would say so and He would say so very clearly so that there would be no mistaking God's will for non-Hebrews. But there is no covenant in Scripture between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. I looked for it in Scripture but found NONE.
Rahab (Josh 2; Heb 11:31)
May have been allowed to live was still non-Hebrew and outside the Abrahamic Covenant.
Ruth the Moabitess (Ruth 1–4)
A Moabitess (non-Hebrew) and outside the Abrahamic Covenant because the covenant God made with Abraham was with him and his Hebrew seed.
The “mixed multitude” of the Exodus (Exod 12:38)
Yes, mixed-race Hebrews like Samaritans were mixed-race Hebrews.
Foreigners who joined Israel and were circumcised (Exod 12:48)
Most likely the descendants of Ishmael and Esau, who were circumcised and blessed, but the covenant went from Abraham to Isaac and to Jacob and Jacob's twelve sons - the offspring of the 70 souls that went to live in Gentile Egypt.
God explicitly says:
Gentiles entered by faith and allegiance, not ethnicity.
God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. If there is one please provide the Scripture of the non-Hebrew God made covenant with and please provide his name so we would all know.
3. The New Covenant is explicitly for Gentiles
Wrong. The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But
this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31–33.
This covenant matched with Joel's prophecy and Promise from God to give His Spirit to Israel equals born-again Hebrew/Jew. As anyone can read - ANYONE CAN READ - the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah clearly does not include non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Jesus states the blood of the New Covenant is:
And after the resurrection:
Paul is unambiguous:
4. Paul directly refutes the claim in Ephesians 2
Yes, Gentiles were once:
But that is past tense. The very next verses say:
Gentiles are not outside grace—they are brought into the covenant, not by replacing Israel, but by union with Christ.
5. Grace has never been ethnicity-based
If salvation required being part of a specific ethnic covenant, then:
Adam,
Abel,
Noah,
Job,
Melchizedek
would all be excluded—which Scripture never suggests.
Salvation has always been:
Bottom line
The claim is false. God made universal covenants (Noah), promised global blessing through Abraham, welcomed Gentiles even under the Mosaic covenant, and explicitly included all nations in the New Covenant through Christ. Gentiles are not outside God’s grace—they are grafted into the covenant promises by faith, not ethnicity (Rom 11; Gal 3; Eph 2).
I have other sources to post if you want them....
The bottom line is this: There is no Scripture in the Old Testament of a covenant of any kind between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
