jeremiah1five
Active Member
The New Covenant includes God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Jeremiah says NOTHING about Gentiles being included along with Israel. Take the text as written and stop adding to the Bible.
Ephesians: A Fellowship of Hebrew Saints.
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Fine... Stop with the OT and the new never happened.
That means Jesus never came... not even for the lost sheep.
You cannot have Him in the OT and deny the NT.
You cannot deny a blood covnant that basically came from Jesus' mouth.
So there you go.
You systematically destroyed Christianity ...
civic
Active Member
Will the Real Jesus/Messiah please stand up. Many want to have their ears tickled. Jesus and the Apostles warned us about false messiahs/christs. We see on out forum many false christs being promoted.
Can you spot a counterfeit ?
What is your criteria ?
A false christ or a false messiah is a pretender who claims to be the One sent from God to save humanity. In Matthew 24:23–24, Jesus says, “And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.” This is part of a larger teaching about what to expect in the end times. In Matthew 24, Jesus repeats this teaching, adding, “So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (verses 26–27).
The “end times” means several things in the Bible. According to Hebrews 1:2, the “last days” is the New Testament era, starting with the first coming of Jesus Christ. This is also the sense in Acts 2:16–17, 1 John 2:18, and 1 Peter 1:20. In this sense, we are living in the “end times”; that is, we are in the final dispensation before the second coming of Christ. In Matthew 13:49, the “end of the age” refers to the time of judgment at the Lord’s second coming. The Lord’s return and the events leading up to it (see Revelation 6–16) are commonly referred to as the “end times” today. Although the “end times” may have begun 2,000 years ago, there will be a rapid escalation of the signs Jesus gave as time draws nearer to His return. We believe the “end times,” as commonly understood, will begin with the rapture of the church.
False christs have come and gone since the first century (Mark 13:22; 2 Peter 2:1). They arise when someone claims to be the Messiah or when a branch of Christianity veers from the clear teaching of God’s Word and tries to define Jesus as other than He is. The apostles dealt with false doctrine in many of their letters to the churches, warning believers about the false christs and false prophets in their midst (2 Corinthians 11:13). John gave a clear definition of accurate Christology: “By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” (I John 4:2–3).
False christs have continued to make their appearance. Even within the last century, certain men such as Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon, and David Koresh have risen to prominence by claiming to be God or His right-hand man. They often started with the Bible but then seized one verse or idea and built their own theology around it, turning their group into a self-affirming cult. Cult leaders often attract their victims by presenting themselves as Bible-believing Christians. Groups such as the Mormons, Christian Science, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses all claim to be Christian, but they all deny the deity and work of Jesus, the Son of God, as our only path to forgiveness and eternal life (see John 14:6).
Closer to home, a proliferation of false christs has arisen in unexpected places: Christian church pulpits. When a teaching reinvents Jesus as someone other than He is or intentionally minimizes the more difficult truths of His gospel, it presents a false christ. With the surge of hyper-grace teaching and Your Best Life Now theology, the glory of Jesus Christ has been minimized in favor of self-worship. Jesus, when mentioned at all, is often presented as merely the ticket to receiving God’s blessings. In this generation of biblical illiteracy, many hearers eagerly swallow this man-made version of Christ, never challenging the twisted doctrine that conceived it. Even when people are given an opportunity to “make a decision” for Jesus, one must wonder: to what Christ are they committing themselves?
Second Timothy 4:3–4 warned us that a time was coming when people would not tolerate sound doctrine. As the days grow darker and sin escalates, a more palatable christ becomes attractive to those who “loved the darkness rather than the light” (John 3:19). Second Thessalonians 2:11–12 explains why so many are attracted to false christs. Verse 10 says, “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” When people refuse to love the truth, the real Jesus, or God’s holy Word, God gives them over to their own ideas and their false christs, none of which have any power to save (Romans 1:21–23).got?
hope this helps !!!
Can you spot a counterfeit ?
What is your criteria ?
A false christ or a false messiah is a pretender who claims to be the One sent from God to save humanity. In Matthew 24:23–24, Jesus says, “And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.” This is part of a larger teaching about what to expect in the end times. In Matthew 24, Jesus repeats this teaching, adding, “So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (verses 26–27).
The “end times” means several things in the Bible. According to Hebrews 1:2, the “last days” is the New Testament era, starting with the first coming of Jesus Christ. This is also the sense in Acts 2:16–17, 1 John 2:18, and 1 Peter 1:20. In this sense, we are living in the “end times”; that is, we are in the final dispensation before the second coming of Christ. In Matthew 13:49, the “end of the age” refers to the time of judgment at the Lord’s second coming. The Lord’s return and the events leading up to it (see Revelation 6–16) are commonly referred to as the “end times” today. Although the “end times” may have begun 2,000 years ago, there will be a rapid escalation of the signs Jesus gave as time draws nearer to His return. We believe the “end times,” as commonly understood, will begin with the rapture of the church.
False christs have come and gone since the first century (Mark 13:22; 2 Peter 2:1). They arise when someone claims to be the Messiah or when a branch of Christianity veers from the clear teaching of God’s Word and tries to define Jesus as other than He is. The apostles dealt with false doctrine in many of their letters to the churches, warning believers about the false christs and false prophets in their midst (2 Corinthians 11:13). John gave a clear definition of accurate Christology: “By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God” (I John 4:2–3).
False christs have continued to make their appearance. Even within the last century, certain men such as Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon, and David Koresh have risen to prominence by claiming to be God or His right-hand man. They often started with the Bible but then seized one verse or idea and built their own theology around it, turning their group into a self-affirming cult. Cult leaders often attract their victims by presenting themselves as Bible-believing Christians. Groups such as the Mormons, Christian Science, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses all claim to be Christian, but they all deny the deity and work of Jesus, the Son of God, as our only path to forgiveness and eternal life (see John 14:6).
Closer to home, a proliferation of false christs has arisen in unexpected places: Christian church pulpits. When a teaching reinvents Jesus as someone other than He is or intentionally minimizes the more difficult truths of His gospel, it presents a false christ. With the surge of hyper-grace teaching and Your Best Life Now theology, the glory of Jesus Christ has been minimized in favor of self-worship. Jesus, when mentioned at all, is often presented as merely the ticket to receiving God’s blessings. In this generation of biblical illiteracy, many hearers eagerly swallow this man-made version of Christ, never challenging the twisted doctrine that conceived it. Even when people are given an opportunity to “make a decision” for Jesus, one must wonder: to what Christ are they committing themselves?
Second Timothy 4:3–4 warned us that a time was coming when people would not tolerate sound doctrine. As the days grow darker and sin escalates, a more palatable christ becomes attractive to those who “loved the darkness rather than the light” (John 3:19). Second Thessalonians 2:11–12 explains why so many are attracted to false christs. Verse 10 says, “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” When people refuse to love the truth, the real Jesus, or God’s holy Word, God gives them over to their own ideas and their false christs, none of which have any power to save (Romans 1:21–23).got?
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
There are counterfeit christs and a counterfeit gospels .The enemy is the great counterfeit. A counterfeit looks almost identical to the real thing. Its an imposter. It takes training and discernment to tell the difference between the true gospel and the false gospel.
The banker is trained to see and feel the genuine bill so that when he feels a counterfeit he immediately knows it's one.
He is an expert in handling the real $100 bills to when a counterfeit crosses their hands it stands out like a sour thumb. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
When we are so familiar with the real Jesus of the Bible and His claims we can spot something is " off " whe the counterfeit shows up. It's easy to "flush " it out in a conversation with only a few questions.
Here is an example of one test from Johns epistle.
Do you know the real Jesus from a fake ?
How to test the spirits as John taught us below.
1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
We are warned not only from Jesus but Peter,Paul and John about false teachers that would arise among the flock of God. Here in this most important passage the apostle John lays out for us a way to know for sure if a “prophet or teacher” is of God or the spirit of antichrist. Remember there are only one of 2 spirits that any message being communicated about Jesus can be from, the first is the Spirit of God and the other is the spirit of antichrist. Believe it or not the apostle John gives us the tests to prove whether one speaks by the Spirit of God or antichrist regarding the person of Jesus. We need to ask ourselves what does it actually mean to confess Jesus has come in the flesh? This becomes the litmus test for the Christian or we can call it the lie detector test. We can hook someone up to the polygraph machine on this one and detect the truth from a lie, the Spirit of God verse the spirit of antichrist. Did you in order to spot a counterfeit, the agents in banks are not trained by studying fake $100 bills but the real ones? It is only in knowing the genuine articles that the fakes are easily spotted. Such is the case with the bible. Unless you know it, you will accept a fake and believe it is real. John lets us know in his epistle how to spot a counterfeit.
To confess- NT:3670
1. homologeo (o(mologe/w, NT:3670), lit., "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"), "to assent, accord, agree with," denotes, (a) "to confess, declare, admit,"
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)
To confess means to agree with, say the same thing or to admit what has been declared about Christ. What John is telling his readers is that they must agree with him what has been declared about Jesus. When we look at John writings we see that The Word was God and the Word became(a coming with an abiding effect)flesh. This is fundamental to the Christian faith the Incarnation. God became(permanently) man and dwelt among us. John makes that clear when he says that Jesus has come in the flesh.
Has come- this is in the perfect tense which means a past action with continuing results in the present. John is telling us at the time he penned these words that Jesus came in the flesh in the past and that He continues in the flesh in the present, well after His ascension to the Father. Christ took upon Himself flesh and this has become His permanent dwelling. This is a direct refutation of the Gnostic Cerinthus who taught that Christ only temporarily assumed a body.
So we can see from John here that anyone that does not agree the Jesus is both permanently God and man is the spirit of antichrist and this persons message is not from God. John is writing after the resurrection and is using perfect tense in Greek which denotes a past action with continuing results into the present, and continuing on through eternity. Christ came in the flesh, He rose from the dead in the flesh, Ascended into heaven in the flesh and is now 2000 years later still in the flesh. The same body that He was born and died with that still bare the marks of His crucifixion, He rose with from the grave. If one claims that Christ rose as a spirit being and not in His physical material body of flesh and bones, they are of the spirit of antichrist. One cannot deny the Deity of Jesus or His humanity. Those who deny any of these truths according to John do not have the Father, the Son or the Spirit.
1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7
Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)
Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)
Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)
Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28, 4:1-6, 5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)
Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)
Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)
Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.
Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.
of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, eleeluthota "has come
Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun Christon erchomenon en sarki. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have eleeluthota (perfect active participle) in this same construction with homologeoo, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.
Vincent- Is come erchomenon. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood
conclusion: those who deny Christ is fully God and fully man and remains a man having a human glorified body forever have a false christ.
hope this helps !!!
The banker is trained to see and feel the genuine bill so that when he feels a counterfeit he immediately knows it's one.
He is an expert in handling the real $100 bills to when a counterfeit crosses their hands it stands out like a sour thumb. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.When we are so familiar with the real Jesus of the Bible and His claims we can spot something is " off " whe the counterfeit shows up. It's easy to "flush " it out in a conversation with only a few questions.
Here is an example of one test from Johns epistle.
Do you know the real Jesus from a fake ?
How to test the spirits as John taught us below.
1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
We are warned not only from Jesus but Peter,Paul and John about false teachers that would arise among the flock of God. Here in this most important passage the apostle John lays out for us a way to know for sure if a “prophet or teacher” is of God or the spirit of antichrist. Remember there are only one of 2 spirits that any message being communicated about Jesus can be from, the first is the Spirit of God and the other is the spirit of antichrist. Believe it or not the apostle John gives us the tests to prove whether one speaks by the Spirit of God or antichrist regarding the person of Jesus. We need to ask ourselves what does it actually mean to confess Jesus has come in the flesh? This becomes the litmus test for the Christian or we can call it the lie detector test. We can hook someone up to the polygraph machine on this one and detect the truth from a lie, the Spirit of God verse the spirit of antichrist. Did you in order to spot a counterfeit, the agents in banks are not trained by studying fake $100 bills but the real ones? It is only in knowing the genuine articles that the fakes are easily spotted. Such is the case with the bible. Unless you know it, you will accept a fake and believe it is real. John lets us know in his epistle how to spot a counterfeit.
To confess- NT:3670
1. homologeo (o(mologe/w, NT:3670), lit., "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"), "to assent, accord, agree with," denotes, (a) "to confess, declare, admit,"
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)
To confess means to agree with, say the same thing or to admit what has been declared about Christ. What John is telling his readers is that they must agree with him what has been declared about Jesus. When we look at John writings we see that The Word was God and the Word became(a coming with an abiding effect)flesh. This is fundamental to the Christian faith the Incarnation. God became(permanently) man and dwelt among us. John makes that clear when he says that Jesus has come in the flesh.
Has come- this is in the perfect tense which means a past action with continuing results in the present. John is telling us at the time he penned these words that Jesus came in the flesh in the past and that He continues in the flesh in the present, well after His ascension to the Father. Christ took upon Himself flesh and this has become His permanent dwelling. This is a direct refutation of the Gnostic Cerinthus who taught that Christ only temporarily assumed a body.
So we can see from John here that anyone that does not agree the Jesus is both permanently God and man is the spirit of antichrist and this persons message is not from God. John is writing after the resurrection and is using perfect tense in Greek which denotes a past action with continuing results into the present, and continuing on through eternity. Christ came in the flesh, He rose from the dead in the flesh, Ascended into heaven in the flesh and is now 2000 years later still in the flesh. The same body that He was born and died with that still bare the marks of His crucifixion, He rose with from the grave. If one claims that Christ rose as a spirit being and not in His physical material body of flesh and bones, they are of the spirit of antichrist. One cannot deny the Deity of Jesus or His humanity. Those who deny any of these truths according to John do not have the Father, the Son or the Spirit.
1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7
Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)
Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)
Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)
Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28, 4:1-6, 5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)
Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)
Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)
Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.
Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.
of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, eleeluthota "has come
Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun Christon erchomenon en sarki. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have eleeluthota (perfect active participle) in this same construction with homologeoo, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.
Vincent- Is come erchomenon. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood
conclusion: those who deny Christ is fully God and fully man and remains a man having a human glorified body forever have a false christ.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
Its time to quote the late Dr Martin
esus , the Real One always separates the different religions, faiths of this world. Its why so many times the New Testaments talks about false Christs, false teachers, deceivers etc......
Some do this intentionally while others I believe are deceived into thinking they have the real Jesus. But there are many "tests" in the N.T. where we can discern the real from the fake much like trained bankers can spot a counterfeit $100 from the genuine $100.
I will quote the late Dr. Walter Martin. What we deal with most of the time is a language barrier. We read the same words in the Bible and have a different definition and vocabulary than those with a different Jesus, a different gospel. Its the semantic game being played out on a regular basis with online forums and when you answer the person knowing at your door to talk about the Bible.
Here is Dr Martin below in his summary of this issues we encounter :
"The historic doctrine of the Trinity is seldom, if ever, considered without careful redefinition. If the reader consults the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary, published by the Unity School of Christianity, he will see the masterpiece of redefinition for himself. For in this particular volume, Unity has redefined exhaustively many of the cardinal terms of biblical theology, much as Mary Baker Eddy did in her Glossary of Terms in the book Science and Health With Key to the Scriptures. The reader will be positively amazed to find what has happened to biblical history, the person of Adam, the concept of human sin, spiritual depravity, and eternal judgment. One thing, however, will emerge very clearly from this study: Unity may use the terminology of the Bible, but by no stretch of the imagination can the redefinition be equated with the thing itself. Another confusing aspect of non-Christian cultists’ approach to semantics is the manner in which they will surprise the Christian with voluminous quotations from no less authority than the Bible, and give the appearance of agreeing with nearly every statement the Christian makes in attempting to evangelize the cultist. Such stock phrases as “We believe that way too; we agree on this point” or the more familiar, “[Mrs. Eddy, Mr. or Mrs. Fillmore, Mr. Evans, Dr. Buchman, Joseph Smith, or Brigham Young] says exactly the same thing; we are completely in agreement.” All such tactics based upon the juggling of terms usually have the effect of frustrating the average Christian, for he is unable to put his finger on what he knows is error, and is repeatedly tantalized by seeming agreement which, as he knows, does not exist. He is therefore often forced into silence because he is unaware of what the cultist is actually doing. Often, even though he may be aware of this in a limited sense, he hesitates to plunge into a discussion for fear of ridicule because of an inadequate background or a lack of biblical information.
The solution to this perplexing problem is far from simple. The Christian must realize that for every biblical or doctrinal term he mentions, a redefinition light flashes on in the mind of the cultist, and a lightning-fast redefinition is accomplished. Realizing that the cultist will apparently agree with the doctrine under discussion while firmly disagreeing in reality with the historical and biblical concept, the Christian is on his way to dealing effectively with cult terminology. This amazing operation of terminological redefinition works very much like a word association test in psychology.
It is simple for a cultist to spiritualize and redefine the clear meaning of biblical texts and teachings so as to be in apparent harmony with the historic Christian faith. However, such a harmony is at best a surface agreement, based upon double meanings of words that cannot stand the test of biblical context, grammar, or sound exegesis. Language is, to be sure, a complex subject; all are agreed on this. But one thing is beyond dispute, and that is that in context words mean just what they say. Either we admit this or we must be prepared to surrender all the accomplishments of grammar and scholastic progress and return to writing on cave walls with charcoal sticks in the tradition of our alleged stone-age ancestors. To illustrate this point more sharply, the experience of everyday life points out the absurdity of terminological redefinitions in every way of life.
A quick survey of how cults redefine Christian terminology illustrates this important observation.
Is it any wonder, then, that orthodox Christians feel called upon to openly denounce such perversions of clearly defined and historically accepted biblical terminology, and claim that the cults have no rights—scholastically, biblically, or linguistically—to redefine biblical terms as they do? "
hope this helps !!!
esus , the Real One always separates the different religions, faiths of this world. Its why so many times the New Testaments talks about false Christs, false teachers, deceivers etc......
Some do this intentionally while others I believe are deceived into thinking they have the real Jesus. But there are many "tests" in the N.T. where we can discern the real from the fake much like trained bankers can spot a counterfeit $100 from the genuine $100.
I will quote the late Dr. Walter Martin. What we deal with most of the time is a language barrier. We read the same words in the Bible and have a different definition and vocabulary than those with a different Jesus, a different gospel. Its the semantic game being played out on a regular basis with online forums and when you answer the person knowing at your door to talk about the Bible.
Here is Dr Martin below in his summary of this issues we encounter :
"The historic doctrine of the Trinity is seldom, if ever, considered without careful redefinition. If the reader consults the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary, published by the Unity School of Christianity, he will see the masterpiece of redefinition for himself. For in this particular volume, Unity has redefined exhaustively many of the cardinal terms of biblical theology, much as Mary Baker Eddy did in her Glossary of Terms in the book Science and Health With Key to the Scriptures. The reader will be positively amazed to find what has happened to biblical history, the person of Adam, the concept of human sin, spiritual depravity, and eternal judgment. One thing, however, will emerge very clearly from this study: Unity may use the terminology of the Bible, but by no stretch of the imagination can the redefinition be equated with the thing itself. Another confusing aspect of non-Christian cultists’ approach to semantics is the manner in which they will surprise the Christian with voluminous quotations from no less authority than the Bible, and give the appearance of agreeing with nearly every statement the Christian makes in attempting to evangelize the cultist. Such stock phrases as “We believe that way too; we agree on this point” or the more familiar, “[Mrs. Eddy, Mr. or Mrs. Fillmore, Mr. Evans, Dr. Buchman, Joseph Smith, or Brigham Young] says exactly the same thing; we are completely in agreement.” All such tactics based upon the juggling of terms usually have the effect of frustrating the average Christian, for he is unable to put his finger on what he knows is error, and is repeatedly tantalized by seeming agreement which, as he knows, does not exist. He is therefore often forced into silence because he is unaware of what the cultist is actually doing. Often, even though he may be aware of this in a limited sense, he hesitates to plunge into a discussion for fear of ridicule because of an inadequate background or a lack of biblical information.
The solution to this perplexing problem is far from simple. The Christian must realize that for every biblical or doctrinal term he mentions, a redefinition light flashes on in the mind of the cultist, and a lightning-fast redefinition is accomplished. Realizing that the cultist will apparently agree with the doctrine under discussion while firmly disagreeing in reality with the historical and biblical concept, the Christian is on his way to dealing effectively with cult terminology. This amazing operation of terminological redefinition works very much like a word association test in psychology.
It is simple for a cultist to spiritualize and redefine the clear meaning of biblical texts and teachings so as to be in apparent harmony with the historic Christian faith. However, such a harmony is at best a surface agreement, based upon double meanings of words that cannot stand the test of biblical context, grammar, or sound exegesis. Language is, to be sure, a complex subject; all are agreed on this. But one thing is beyond dispute, and that is that in context words mean just what they say. Either we admit this or we must be prepared to surrender all the accomplishments of grammar and scholastic progress and return to writing on cave walls with charcoal sticks in the tradition of our alleged stone-age ancestors. To illustrate this point more sharply, the experience of everyday life points out the absurdity of terminological redefinitions in every way of life.
A quick survey of how cults redefine Christian terminology illustrates this important observation.
Cult | Term | Cult Definition | Christian Definition |
Mormonism | God | Many gods | One God |
Jehovah’s Witnesses | Jesus Christ | Not god, created by Jehovah | God the Son, Creator of all |
Christian Science | Sin | Illusion, error, not real | Disobedience to God |
New Age | Salvation | Becoming One with the Universe/God | Reconciliation with God by means of Christ’s atonement |
Is it any wonder, then, that orthodox Christians feel called upon to openly denounce such perversions of clearly defined and historically accepted biblical terminology, and claim that the cults have no rights—scholastically, biblically, or linguistically—to redefine biblical terms as they do? "
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
The false christ and false gospel go hand in hand together. The false christ/gospel will redefine Gods love for all men, the meaning of the world, promote a special group of sinners that can be saved, promote legalism and the law over grace, mercy, love, judgement over forgiveness, misrepresent Jesus and the Apostles teaching on being a disciple, are more concerned about being right vs living right, want to receive Gods mercy but not extend it to others and the list goes on and on and on. They have created a god after their own image, not the God of the bible. They worship an idol, a book and have no relationship with the living Lord. Its a religion void of relationship with the One who died for them. Their christ is nothing but an idea, a man who once lived and whom they do not know personally. Just empty words in 66 books that are not alive/living speaking to them personally, convicting them daily, calling them to repentance, creating in them a humble heart etc...... but are filled with pride, ego, arrogance unable to be corrected or ever wrong. See Ephesians 4:14, Galatians 1:6-9, Colossians 2:8, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-4, Jude 1:12-13 and many other passages.
civic
Active Member
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles by God’s choice. The Lord Jesus declared that He had a specific mission for Paul: “This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel” (Acts 9:15). Paul had been set apart from birth and called by God’s grace so that he might “preach [Christ] among the Gentiles” (Galatians 1:15–16).
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles because the bulk of his ministry was spent in pagan lands planting churches among the Gentiles. Paul was the first to preach the gospel on European soil. His three missionary journeys took him far from Jewish lands to Gentile areas where Diana, Zeus, and Apollo were worshiped, to Cyprus, to Athens, to Malta, and eventually to Rome. He desired to preach in Spain as well (Romans 15:24), but it’s unsure if he ever made it that far.
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles because he was under obligation to serve in Gentile lands. Paul’s testimony was that “this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ” (Ephesians 3:8). Peter preached (mainly) to the Jews, and Paul was commissioned to preach (mainly) to the Gentiles: “God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews” (Galatians 2:7, NLT).
Paul was well-qualified to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He was well-educated, being thoroughly trained in the Mosaic Law under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) and having received a classical Roman education in Tarsus. He had the ability to argue his point from Jewish Law (Galatians 4:21–31) and to illustrate it from Greek literature (Acts 17:28; Titus 1:12; 1 Corinthians 15:33). Paul’s training as a Pharisee (Philippians 3:5) allowed him access to synagogues everywhere, and he also held the privileges of Roman citizenship, which opened doors of opportunity throughout the Roman world (Acts 22:3, 25–29; 28:30)..
The Lord specifically chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles to show that salvation is offered to all people. Ephesians 3:6 speaks of how Christ brings together both Gentile and Jew: “And this is God’s plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God’s children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus” (NLT). May the Lord continue to reach people everywhere for His glory, and may we display Paul’s willingness to go wherever God calls us.got?
hope this helps !!!
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles because the bulk of his ministry was spent in pagan lands planting churches among the Gentiles. Paul was the first to preach the gospel on European soil. His three missionary journeys took him far from Jewish lands to Gentile areas where Diana, Zeus, and Apollo were worshiped, to Cyprus, to Athens, to Malta, and eventually to Rome. He desired to preach in Spain as well (Romans 15:24), but it’s unsure if he ever made it that far.
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles because he was under obligation to serve in Gentile lands. Paul’s testimony was that “this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ” (Ephesians 3:8). Peter preached (mainly) to the Jews, and Paul was commissioned to preach (mainly) to the Gentiles: “God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews” (Galatians 2:7, NLT).
Paul was well-qualified to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He was well-educated, being thoroughly trained in the Mosaic Law under Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) and having received a classical Roman education in Tarsus. He had the ability to argue his point from Jewish Law (Galatians 4:21–31) and to illustrate it from Greek literature (Acts 17:28; Titus 1:12; 1 Corinthians 15:33). Paul’s training as a Pharisee (Philippians 3:5) allowed him access to synagogues everywhere, and he also held the privileges of Roman citizenship, which opened doors of opportunity throughout the Roman world (Acts 22:3, 25–29; 28:30)..
The Lord specifically chose Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles to show that salvation is offered to all people. Ephesians 3:6 speaks of how Christ brings together both Gentile and Jew: “And this is God’s plan: Both Gentiles and Jews who believe the Good News share equally in the riches inherited by God’s children. Both are part of the same body, and both enjoy the promise of blessings because they belong to Christ Jesus” (NLT). May the Lord continue to reach people everywhere for His glory, and may we display Paul’s willingness to go wherever God calls us.got?
hope this helps !!!
You fail to understand like the Pharisees, who believed that all Jews were saved due to the covenant, which Jesus told them was wrong, and thh Saducees, who didn't believe in angels or demons. Somehow you have managed to double dip on being on the opposite side against Jesus. Jesus believed in both. Jesus did not destroy the law He fulfilled it. What you are missing is that the covenant, Jesus as Messiah, and the Law were given to the Jews. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and free the Jews from the Law that was death.
Again, the Gentiles are NOT in the covenant. That is why Jesus treated the Gentiles BETTER than He did the Jews. He wasn't the Messiah for the Gentiles, He is their savior. He violated often the laws of your pharisee ancestors. He did it on many occassions. He didn't even bother hiding it, because He broke them specifically. He didn't miss by one letter. Yet He never violated the Mosaic Law. Yet your pharisee ancestors sought to kill Him because He violated their laws.
You don't even get it. Jesus will save the whole world, however, the Messiah program is just for the Jews. Messiah means KING, not savior, not Lord. You really should find yourself a messianic Jew and ask them what it is all about, so you can get with the program. It is rather eye opening what God has done. I am reading Yeshua The Life of Messiah From a Messianic Jewish Perspective by Dr. Fruchtenbaum. You don't see everything God has planned. You are blinding yourself. You have the Adamic covenant, the promise God gave to EVE, the Noahic covenant, etc. Many covenants. And then the promise that Abraham's seed would bless the whole world. That doesn't mean, make the whole world part of the covenant. It just means that the blessings of salvation fall upon the Gentiles, as it did upon the Jews. Not the covenantal promises, which have nothing to do with salvation.
Jesus sacrifice is the propitiation for both the sins of the Jews, and the sins of the Gentiles. Just as when God sacrificed the animals from which He gave clothing to Adam and Eve, that was to cover their sin, as the clothing covered their nakedness.
The interesting thing I read in the book I am in is the the keys given to Peter by Jesus in statement, really were given to Peter, and just Peter. Notice how Peter got the ball rolling with Jews entering the church. Then consider the Gentiles. While Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, there were no Gentiles until Peter went to Cornelius, and brought the gospel, and they received the Holy Spirit. The reception of the Holy Spirit was the result of Peter being given the keys. Consider the Samaritans. While Philip and others brought the gospel, the Holy Spirit didn't come until Peter came. The keys opened the doors to the church for the Jews, the Gentiles, and the Samartians, a door that cannot be closed. (That blew my mind when I read it.)
civic
Active Member
Hind site as they say is 20/20.
I believe since Peter was the leader of the Apostles he first had to be convinced by God with the gentiles. That way he would understand Gods call upon Paul's life with the gentiles. Thats just my opinion fwiw.
Also I like what you just shared with the insight. Nice !
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Mixed-race Jews lived in Ephesus along with full blood Jews. The message of their Messiah was already circulating by the time Saul and Barnabas arrived to update them further, and when Saul left, he wrote to them which is the Ephesian letter we have today.
Gentiles are not part of any of the Hebrew covenants and therefore had no interest in the Jews religion. Gentiles were already caught up in the worship of their own idols.
civic
Active Member
Here is what Jesus said to the "kosher" Jews
John 8:39-44
“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44;You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
hope this helps !!!
John 8:39-44
“Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44;You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
lol you the only person I know that turns gentiles into jews
You have no idea. The antagonism is that Jesus said it didn't matter that the religious leaders were children of Abraham. That unpardonable sin that the religious leaders commited? Did Jesus lie, and it wasn't unpardonable? What about the people who later started saying the same thing? About Jesus having a demon? What about them? The unpardonable sin was a national sin commited by all of Israel. The punishment for this unpardonable sin was AD 70. It was an unmovable judgment. Unchangeable. Just like the judgment upon Israel because of Mannaseh. God would not rescind it, even for Josiah. All he did was say that it would be after Josiah's time, and then Josiah died early in battle.
The covenant doesn't matter. Why can't you get that through your stone hard heart. He made covenants with Adam and Noah. He also made a promise to Eve. Jesus even had 4 non-Hebrew ancestors in His lineage back to King David. You need to stop thinking about the covenant. It's dead. It is violated. There isn't a new covenant until the end of Revelation 19 and entry into the Millennial kingdom.
She was a CANAANITE. You can LOOK THAT UP. Syro-Canaanite to be precise. This is why Jesus did not respond when she cried out Lord, Son of David. That is calling Jesus Messiah. From a Gentile, Jesus did not recognize this. The disciples asked if Jesus would make her shut up (basically). Jesus just said that He had come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Next she just said Lord, and left out the Messianic title, and Jesus responded. He said it isn't good to throw the children's bread to the puppy dogs. (The family pets.) She responded and set, but those puppy dogs eat of the food that falls from the table. That is the blessing that the Gentiles receive from God's promise to Abraham. It is salvation. It isn't a land covenant, that is Israel's. Israel does not have a covenant of salvation.
So it is clear that the Canaanites are separate from Asher. Very nice. And this woman is said to be Canaanite. You really do need to stop changing things. She was Syro-Canaanite, so a Syrian Canaanite. Not an Asherite. If she was an Asherite, Jesus would have responded to her cries to the Messiah, being a lost sheep of the house of Israel.
That is not true. Jesus cured the son of the Roman Centurion, and Roman Centurions are not Hebrew at all. Though the Bible does speak of Hebrews in the Roman army, they are ONLY Jewish mercenaries. This is why the Centurion said that he was not worthy to have Jesus come into his home. It is also why he sent the religious leaders to Jesus, and the religious leaders talked him up. This non-Hebrew Gentile treats the Jews well. BTW, the history of this is pretty well covered by the book I am reading. NOT HEBREW AT ALL.
No, it was not a derogatory word here. See, this is where you get all messed up. If you actually look up the word used in greek, it means PUPPY DOG. The family pet. Jesus is not being derogatory. I'll be honest, until the other day, I had never thought of looking up the word Jesus used, but... I did. I can no longer say Jesus was being derogatory, since He most certainly was not.
This isn't until the millennial kingdom. Where will Jesus second coming be? Where the eagles gather. Eagles also being the word for vultures, which is symbolic of the Gentiles. So Jesus returns where the Gentiles gather to wipe out Israel. So much for amillennialism and preterism... Futurism wins this one. (Premillennialism, with Israel getting their Kingdom when Jesus rescues them from the antichrist.
All Israel isn't all Israel. What about the unpardonable sin committed by the Israelite religious leaders. You know, the sin that would never be forgiven?
It hasn't happened yet. IT WILL. Just not yet. It is still the times of the Gentiles. Israel will, as Saul says, be saved once the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.
And that happens. End of Revelation 19. Once Jesus destroys the armies that seek to wipe out Israel at that time at Petra. Then Jesus comes to Israel and they recognize Him whom they have pierced. The 1/3rd of Zechariah will be saved. The rest perish, according to God in Zechariah. So, again, not all Israel will be saved. Only those God has chosen. His remnant in Israel.
It is not through the Mosaic covenant. Israel violated that. Hence a new covenant. And, according to Israel, it is actually during the festival of booths, which comes at Jesus second coming. The Passover of the Messiah was Jesus first coming.
That is because it was part of the Pharisees and religious leaders oral laws. That is why you need to go and actually learn what the Jewish people know. This is why Jesus asked the religious leaders when they said that Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beezelbub, well then, who do your children cast demons out by? The casting out of the mute/dumb demon was one of the Messianic miracles that the pharisees were looking for in connection with the Messiah. Also, where the woman was that came to Jesus, the raised PIGS. Jews have NOTHING to do with pigs, because that would make them unclean. It is against Mosaic law. (631 different laws to the Mosaic Law.)
Actually Jesus speaks of them. He even told a parable of one that didn't do anything, left the person they possessed, returned and found everything straightened up and cleaned up, but empty. He wouldn't stay there alone, so he went and got more spirits/demons worse than himself, and that person's state was worse then the start.
Really now? And the greek word daimon does occur as a noun 5 times in scripture. It isn't the same as we consider it today, but it fits fallen angel quite well. However, to the greeks, these "spirits" can also be benevolent. Given what scripture says, it appears they range from harmless to incredibly violent, to immoral. (unclean spirits.)
Yes, those are angels that were angels that went into the daughters of men giving us the Nephilim. They aren't the demons that sided with Lucifer with his rebellion.
You sound like a saducee who would have a hard time with Jesus. Saducees did not believe in demons either. That is because they don't believe in resurrection and nothing beyond the dead. They also don't believe in angels. What did Jesus do? He silenced the demons because they were telling the people who He was, and then, by His authority, He cast out the demons. In that one case, He cast them out into pigs. And this is JESUS doing it. You change that at all, you change HIM. Again, him casting out the dumb/mute spirit was a messianic miracle, because no one else could do it.
You will notice that not once here does it say demon. It speaks of the flesh. However, Jesus is clear that the flesh and spirit are NOT THE SAME.
Again. No mention of demons here. So absolutely no connection.
Actually no. Hate, as defined in scripture, is not choosing someone. It is avoiding. You should look up your terms. Hate today has a completely different meaning. In the ancient pictograph version of Hebrew, the picture is a thorn wall. Something you avoid. So when Jesus says to love Jesus more then your family, your own self. The hate is not choosing your family, or yourself, but instead choosing Christ.
There are evil spirits. Jesus Himself cast them out. The mute/dumb ones were the worst. It tried to kill the child on more than one occassion.
What does this have to do with anything? Stop wasting our time.
Wow. No you are wrong. It was a national sin, and it was the rejection of the Messiah that was shown by them saying Jesus cast out demons by the power of Beezelbub. However, Jesus cast out by the power of the Holy Spirit. The punishment for this sin for THAT GENERATION, was AD 70. There was nothing Israel could do from that point forward to stop AD 70. This is not about salvation, but about God's judgment. So Jewish people were still accepting Jesus as Messiah, but because the leadership rejected, AD 70 happened. Jesus says that it isn't until the leadership calls the people to accept the Messiah, that they are saved. This is not a salvific issue, but one of national judgment.
Saul tells us in Ephesians 1 that the Holy Spirit is the earnest/downpayment of our inheritance until we take material possession of it. We are also sealed by the Holy Spirit. Do you know what Nicodemus didn't understand what Jesus meant by being born again? He had been born again FOUR TIMES. (Periods of ascension in life in Jewish culture were called, being born again. His last one was when he was old, and was when he went from simply being a rabbi teacher to being the leader of a school. The pinnacle of being born again. So he asked Jesus, how could he be born again when old? Jesus explained that it was being born of the spirit, not the flesh.
You have to go to Ephesians 1 to see where you are wrong.
So now Jesus is a liar? Just how blasphemous are you going to be? It was Jesus who said we must be born again, and that was to Nicodemus. And if one is not born again, they will not see/enter the kingdom of heaven. Nothing about a covenant.
And a Canaanite is... an Ishmaelite, or a merchant.
It doesn't say non-Hebrew Gentiles. It says Ishmaelite. However, there is the millennial kingdom in Jerusalem that rules over the whole world. And the non-Hebrew Gentiles go up to Israel to celebrate in the festivals, or they have no rain, etc. You really should try reading the Bible more.
Yes. Those who are born to the believers who populate the Earth. They face the same dilemma as Adam. They don't know Jesus or salvation as their parents did. They will be deceived.
It doesn't end well for the religious leaders of Jesus day. Or the Jewish rich man who was burning in hell. You know, the one who talked to Abraham and Lazarus.
Peter had to go first in order to open the door. He had the keys. The power to loosen and bind belongs only to the apostles, not the church, and the keys only belonged to Peter, not the church. The church has SOME power, but that is in discipline. Consider Ananias and Sapphira. With Paul, there wasn't a momentary pause or any consideration when he gave them a death sentence. Heaven just carried it out. That is the power that Jesus gave His apostles. It really is an eye opener.
civic
Active Member
agreed !
jeremiah1five
Active Member
What are you talking about? "Jesus never came" or "denying Him in the New Testament?"
What the heck does that mean?
Similar threads
