brightfame52
Well-known member
Its a waste of time, you havent proved anything wrong I have already stated and worked on
Ephesians 1:4 Explained
- Thread starter Johann
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brightfame52
Well-known member
Its not there to you because you cant see it
There is nothing to see
Seeing as you have never addressed rebuttal, your claim is an empty one.
Biblelesson
Active member
They were predestined
- Ephesians 1:11: “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.” All things. Now the question is, does all things work according to the counsel of his will include the final destiny of individuals? I think so.
- Proverbs 16:4: “The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” God has made the wicked for the day of trouble.
- 1 Peter 2:7-8: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,’ and ‘A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.’ They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.” They disobey the word as they were destined to do.
- Jude 4: “Certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God.”
- 2 Peter 2:3: “And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
- Romans 9:11: Jacob and Esau “were not yet born and had done nothing good or bad — in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls — she was told” — this is before they were born or had done anything good or evil — “‘the older will serve the younger.’ As it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’” That is a quote from Malachi 1:2–3, which ought to be read in context where the text makes clear that God is sovereignly before they were born choosing Jacob over Esau, but showing that Esau’s wickedness was real and blameworthy and he was responsible for it.
- Romans 9:22: “What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.”
Scriptures compiled by John piper
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its not there to you because you cant see it
brightfame52
Well-known member
Its a waste of time, you havent proved anything wrong I have already stated and worked on
civic
Well-known member
Sure you claimed Roman’s 9-11 was about individuals and not nations. The scripture makes it perfectly clear it’s the nations of Israel and the gentiles
You are simply in denial
Exegesis of Romans 9-11 refutes your belief in unconditional election and your idea God arbitrarily makes vessels of wrath
You can't show it because it is not there and you have to read it into the passage instead of out of the passage
Who is predestined?
Unconditionally select men or those in Christ?
Ephesians 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes, so do you deny the Jacob and Esau were individuals ?
brightfame52
Well-known member
Rom 9 affirms that God made some as vessels of wrath and fitted them for destruction, and it affirms that He made some to be vessels of mercy so that they inherit eternal glory. Those would be them He chose in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4
brightfame52
Well-known member
You cant see it,its been shown to them who can see. God has been pleased to hide His sacred truth from some friend, no matter how much explaining they receive Matt 11 25-27
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matt 13 12-14
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Sorry you still cannot show it which is why you do not exegete it and instead cobble together unrelated verses
Sorry rather it shows God can use the unfaithfulness of those he chose for a noble purpose for an ignoble purpose
He can even be longsuffering towards them showing it is their own faults which lead them to be vessels of wrath
Jeremiah 18:9–12 (KJV 1900) — 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. 11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good. 12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.
Romans 10:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Romans 11:11–24 (KJV 1900) — 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
2 Timothy 2:20–21 (KJV 1900) — 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You cant see it,its been shown to them who can see. God has been pleased to hide His sacred truth from some friend, no matter how much explaining they receive Matt 11 25-27
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matt 13 12-14
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
I can't see because it is not there. You see it only because you read it into the passage. Apparently you do not know proper scripture handling requires you read your theology from out of the scriptures and not into it.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You cant see it,its been shown to them who can see. God has been pleased to hide His sacred truth from some friend, no matter how much explaining they receive Matt 11 25-27
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matt 13 12-14
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
civic
Well-known member
they represent nations from the context as I have demonstrated.
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