You both are wrong, so wrong.
It takes more than your mere say so
I have addressed this scripture two to three times, with no response from you, except you just go back and quote the same scriptures again, as though the sense will eventually favor your corrupt understanding.
Really where ? Point it out and i will address it
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Tom, again you need to learn Nehemiah 8:8 ~ it would save you from embarrassing yourself~if that's possible.
The sense of 1st peter 1:23 is simple~The word of God which is God's testimony of truth per Paul....
1st Corinthians 2:1~“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.”
The word of God is God's witness to us of truth contained in the holy scriptures:
Yes, but when do you get to the point
men are born again through the gospel
1 Peter 1:23–25 (KJV 1900) — 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
it's not in unbelief for
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
so it can only be by belief
1st John 5:7-10~"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
Tom, the testimony and witness of God is his word, and in his word it reveals to us how one is born again~by the Spirit of the Living God apart from all means.
So, when I read 1st Peter 1:23 I understand it to be saying this: We are born again by the word of God, or, according to God's testimony, his faithful witness of how one is born of the Spirit of God.
Once again the word here is the gospel
We are born again through belief in the gospel
The word of God rules out the will of the flesh, and the will of man, (preachers, etc., who brings the good news to those born of God~which leads us to our next point.
But no one believes man regenerated himself. God does when man believes
I have a meeting shorty, so the next one might have to come later.
There is absolutely nothing in this verse about regeneration, for Paul had no part in that.
Paul already stated clearly that he could do nothing with unregenerate men (1:18,24; 2:14). So, he would not contradict himself.
Care to give a complete reference?
And to this agrees the rest of Scripture about regeneration (
John 1:13;
3:8;
5:25;
8:43,
47;
Ephesians 2:1-3;
Colossians 2:13;
Ist Pet 1:3), for anyone believing the gospel is already born again (
John 5:24)~proven by the verb tense.
Sorry you misunderstand john 1:13
man cannot regenerate himself nor is he regenerated because of his lineage but God gives that right to all that receive Christ
1:13 born … of God: This new spiritual birth is not of blood, that is, by physical generation or by parents. Nor is the new birth of the will of the flesh, that is, by personal effort. Neither is the birth of the will of man, that is, something accomplished by human effort. The new birth is the work of God alone. It is a gift to be received (
4:10,
14), not a reward achieved by individual effort. The new birth is based on relationship with Christ, not personal position. The relationship, however, proceeds from the position of Christ as the mediator. Christ is life (
1:4;
14:6). Those who trust Him are born of God, meaning they are given spiritual life.1
1 Earl D. Radmacher, Ronald Barclay Allen, and H. Wayne House,
Nelson’s New Illustrated Bible Commentary (Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers, 1999), 1311.
Wuest on Ordo Salutis
Kenneth Wuest - Justification precedes Regeneration
"In John 1: 12, justification precedes regeneration in the divine economy. Mercy is only given on the basis of justice satisfied." (Word Studies, page 41)
"But under the divine government of the universe, there were two things that stood in God's way of making human beings His children, the fact that they were not His children by birth and the fact that they were law-breakers. The first could easily have been remedied by regeneration, but the thing that stood in the way of this act of mercy on God's part was the fact that human beings are sinners, and God's justice demands that sin be paid for before mercy can be righteously bestowed. This is clearly recognized in John 1: 12 where the Greek work translated "power" was a technical expression used in the law courts for a legal right to be or do something. The word "sons" is not from our word huios here but from teknon, and should be translated "children." To those who received the Lord Jesus as their Saviour, as the One who died in their stead on the Cross, thus satisfying the justice of God in view of man's sin, God gave the legal right to become His children."
"Regeneration is therefore dependent upon justification, since an act of mercy in a law court can only be justly based upon the fact of the law being satisfied in the punishment of the crime committed. In human law courts this is impossible, for the prisoner cannot be punished and be set free at the same time" (pg. 92)
Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, for the English Reader
John 1:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
But to as many as received him. That none may be retarded by this stumbling-block, that the Jews despised and rejected Christ, the Evangelist exalts above heaven the godly who believe in him; for he says that by faith they obtain this glory of being reckoned the sons of God.
John Calvin and William Pringle, Commentary on the Gospel according to John (vol. 1; Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 40.
It is by regeneration one is made a child of God
(5) The “children of God.”—Those who are “begotten of God” are ipso facto “children of God” (tékna theoú,
Jn 1:12;
11:52;
1 Jn 3:1,
2,
10;
5:2).1
1 R. Law,
“Johannine, Theology, The,” ed. James Orr et al., The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia (Chicago: The Howard-Severance Company, 1915), 1703.
CHILDREN OF GOD. Persons in this category are only those who of the fallen race are regenerated as a result of faith in Christ1
1 Merrill F. Unger,
“Children of God,” ed. R.K. Harrison, The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1988).
Children of God (tekna theou). In the full spiritual sense, not as mere offspring of God true of all men (Acts 17:28). Paul's phrase huioi theou (Galatians 3:26) for believers, used also by Jesus of the pure in heart (Matthew 5:9), does not occur in John's Gospel (but in Rev. 21:7). It is possible that John prefers ta tekna tou theou for the spiritual children of God whether Jew or Gentile (John 11:52) because of the community of nature (teknon from root tek-, to beget). But one cannot follow Westcott in insisting on "adoption" as Paul's reason for the use of huioi since Jesus uses huioi theou in Matthew 5:9. Clearly the idea of regeneration is involved here as in John 3:3.
Word Pictures in the New Testament.
Vincent agrees
Sons (τέκνα)
Rev., more correctly, children. Son is υἱός. Τέκνον, child (τίκτω, to bring forth), denotes a relation based on community of nature
Word Studies in the New Testament.
τέκνα θ. γενέσθαι] The spiritual life owes its beginning to a birth from above, ch. 3:3–7. And this birth is owing to the Holy Spirit of God; so that this is equivalent to saying, ‘As many as received Him, to them gave He His Holy Spirit.’ And we find that it was so: see Acts 10:44.
Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (vol. 1; Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 684.
and John 3:8 is followed by this answer to Nicodemus' question "how can this be"?
John 3:9–16 (KJV 1900) — 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 5;25 does not support you and testifies against your beliefs
John 5:24–25 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Those that hear and believe have life - they that hear have life
You fail to understand the tenses
without faith in Christ you have no life
John 6:53 (KJV 1900) — 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 5:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John does not support you
you read john contrary to the very reason he writes
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
and multiple statements he makes, Which is very poor way to handle scripture
also neither Eph 2 or Col 2 support you
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Quickening is salvation and it is throu8gh faith verse 8
you ignored context
also
.
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him
, having forgiven you all trespasses;
which requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
so once again faith precedes regeneration
Your argument are easily refuted once one examines context
BTW nothing here supports you either
John 8:43–47 (KJV 1900) — 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
While regeneration is called a begetting (
Ist Peter 1:3), it is not so used in this place.
Here again is a place where we are bound to rightly divide the word of truth (2nd
Timothy 2:15).
Paul no more begat the Corinthians once than he begat the Galatians twice (
Galatians 4:19)!
Paul begat the Corinthians by being the one
to convert them to the knowledge of the truth
. Conversion and regeneration are not the same, has we have proven recently.
I will allow Paul to speak
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV 1900) — 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
It was through the gospel he begat them
he was not the primary cause but her was instrumental in their being born again by preaching the gospel by which men are regenerated
1 Corinthians 15:1–11 (KJV 1900) — 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
