Doctrine of Unconditional Election

There's two more, but even if you cannot confess the eternal phrase, how in the world do you not see the legal phrase? Just a few verses:

  1. We were justified – made legally righteous before God – by His blood (Romans 5:9).
  2. We were reconciled – restored to friendly terms with God – by His death (Rom 5:10).
  3. We were accepted – received as favorable objects by God – by His death (Eph 1:6).
  4. We were adopted – purchased as sons from hell’s orphanage – by His death (Gal 4:5).
  5. We were redeemed – bought back from just condemnation – by His death (I Pet 1:18).
  6. We were washed – our sins purged away in God’s sight – by His blood (Rev 1:5).
  7. We were sanctified – made formally holy before God – by His death (Hebrews 10:10).
  8. He became our atonement – sacrificial gift of appeasement – by His death (Rom 5:11).
  9. He became our propitiation – sacrificial gift of appeasement – by death (Romans 3:25).
  10. Some places have several aspects of His death’s profit (Rom 8:29-30; I Cor 1:30; 6:11)
  11. And the pleasure of the Lord, salvation of His elect, prospered in His hand (Is 53:10).
  12. It was a representative death of the representative for his constituents (Rom 5:12-19).
  13. Our Lord Jesus went to His crucifixion death as a meek Lamb to the slaughter for his people. (Is 53:7).
  14. God's elect were crucified with Christ, died with him. and arose from the dead with him~all legally. Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 2:4,5; Romans 5, etc.
These are just a few of many that could be given. We also have many concerning eternal phrase, like to see them?
Seems it is not just your interpretations of scripture you assume.

Now you want to assume my beliefs as well

However, let it be known those are benefits of those in Christ

And if you are referring to eternal justification you are spouting additional heresy
 
Jesus is declaring a biblical truth. It is very simple to follow. Those that believe are not under condemnation, all unbelievers are~and the the reason is given~because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. We must go else where to find out why some believe and some do not believe~and we do not need to travel very far in any direction!

Sounds like Jesus was one of those cursed "high" Calvinist ~according to many.
So you are saying that Jesus was a follower of someone who lived 1500 years after Jesus did? Hmmm? No, Calvin was the founder of a false doctrine that many have glomed onto because it sounds nice and takes away all responsibility for the eternal destiny of its proponents. But each individual has the responsibility for his own soul's destiny, and clinging to Calvin's false doctrine does not remove that responsibility.
 
Let us look at Romans nine and test your understanding. Starting at 9:10.



Not only in the case of Isaac was the election limited to him "as the son of promise", but also in a still more remarkable instance was this truth indicated in the case of the two sons of Isaac. They were conceived by Rebecca of the same husband, yet God chose the one and rejected the other. An original difference between Isaac and Ishmael might be alleged, since the one was born of the lawful wife of Abraham, the free woman, and the other was the son of the bond woman; but in the case now brought forward there existed no original difference. Both were sons of the same father and mother, and both were born at the same time. The great distinction, then, made between the two brothers could only be traced to the sovereign will of God, who thus visibly notified, long before the event, the difference of the Divine purpose, according to election of grace towards the people of Israel.


In the case of Isaac and Ishmael, it might still be said, that as the latter, as soon as he came to years, gave evidence of a wicked disposition, this was a sufficient reason for preferring Isaac. But here, in a parenthesis the Apostle shows that the preference was given to Jacob independently of all ground of merit, because it was made before the children were capable of doing either good or evil. This was done for the very purpose of taking away all pretense for merit as a ground of preference. Had the preference been given to Jacob when he had grown up to maturity, there would have been no more real ground for ascribing it to anything good in him; yet that use would have been made of it by the perverse ingenuity of man. But God made the preference before the children were born.

“That the purpose of God according to election might stand” ~ This was the very end and intention of the early indication of the will of God to Rebecca, the mother of the two children. ( what was said in Genesis 25 to Rebekah is here interpreted for us by Paul...Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; And the one people shall be stronger than the other people; And the elder shall serve the younger. Please take note Tom and all others!) It was hereby clearly established that, in choosing Jacob and rejecting Esau, God had respect to nothing but His own purpose. Than this what can more strongly declare His own eternal purpose to be the ground of all His favor to man?

“Not of works but of Him that calleth” ~ Expressions indicating God’s sovereignty in this matter are heaped upon one another, because it is a thing so offensive to the human mind. Yet, after all the Apostle’s precaution, the perverseness of men still finds ground of boasting on account of works. Though the children had done neither good nor evil, yet God, it is supposed, might foresee that Jacob would be a godly man, and Esau wicked. But had not God made a difference between Jacob and Esau, Jacob would have been no better than his brother. Were not men blinded by opposition to this part of the will of God, would they not perceive that a preference on account of foreseen good works is a preference on account of works, and therefore expressly contrary to the assertion of the Apostle — Not of works, but of Him that calleth? The whole ground of preference is in Him that calleth, or chooseth, not in him that is called.

Paul, says a man of God in the past "had hitherto merely observed, in a few words, the difference between the carnal sons of Abraham; namely, though all by circumcision were made partakers of the covenant, yet the grace of God was not equally efficacious in all, and the sons of the promise enjoy the blessings of the Most High. He now plainly refers the whole cause to the gratuitous election of God, which in no respects depends on men, so that nothing can be traced in the salvation of believers higher than the goodness of God; nothing in the destruction of the reprobate can be discovered higher than the just severity of the Sovereign of the world. The first proposition of the Apostle is the following: — As the blessing of the covenant separates the nation of the Israelites from all other people, so the election of God separates the men of that nation, while He predestinates some to salvation, others to eternal damnation. The second proposition is, that there is no other foundation of election than the mere goodness and mercy of God, which embrace whom He chooses, without paying the least regard to works, even after the fall of Adam. Third, the Lord in His gratuitous election is free and unrestrained by the necessity of bestowing the same grace equally on all; He passes by such as He wills, and chooses for His own according to His will. Paul briefly comprehends all these propositions in one clause, and will afterwards consider other points. The following words, when they were not yet born, neither had done any good or evil, show that God, in making the difference between them, could have paid no regard to their works, which did not yet exist. Aremians, who state that God may elect from among mankind by a respect to their works, since He foresees from their future conduct who may be worthy or deserving of grace, attack a principle of theology which no Christian ought to be ignorant of; namely, that God can regard nothing in the corrupt nature of man, such as that of Jacob and Esau was, by which He may be induced to do them kindness. When, therefore, Paul says that neither of the children had done any good or evil, we must add also the opinion which he had already formed in his mind, of their both being children of Adam, sinners by nature, not possessed of a single particle of righteousness. Besides, although the vicious and depraved nature, which is diffused through the whole human race, be of itself sufficient to cause damnation before it has shown its unholiness by any act or deed, and Esau therefore deserved to be rejected, because he was by nature a child of wrath, yet to prevent the least difficulty, as if the state of the elder was worse with respect to the perpetration of any offense or vice than that of the younger, it was necessary for the Apostle to exclude the consideration both of transgressions and of virtues. I confess, indeed, that it is true that the near cause of reprobation is our being all cursed in Adam; but Paul withdraws us in the meantime from this consideration, that we may learn to rest in the naked and simple good pleasure of God, until he shall have established this doctrine, that the infinite Sovereign has a sufficiently just cause for election and reprobation, in His own will. He here urges, in almost every word, the gratuitous election of God; for had he considered works to have any place in our election, he would have stated the remuneration due to their performance. But he opposes to works the purpose of God, which consists in the good pleasure of His will. And to remove all doubts and controversy concerning the subject, he adds, according to election, and closes in a striking manner,~ not of works, but of Him that calleth. The opinion, therefore, that God elects or reprobates every one according as He foresees good or evil in us, is false, and contrary to the word of eternal truth."

Later...RB
Nothing about unconditional salvation there

Nor can there be as

Romans 9:30–33 (KJV 1900) — 30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

As righteousness is by faith not unconditional selection
 
Jesus is declaring a biblical truth. It is very simple to follow. Those that believe are not under condemnation, all unbelievers are~and the the reason is given~because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. We must go else where to find out why some believe and some do not believe~and we do not need to travel very far in any direction!

Sounds like Jesus was one of those cursed "high" Calvinist ~according to many.
Hardly. Revelation while necessary is not the same as irresistible grace

You are assuming your doctrine again
 

Romans 9:12​


It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.”

This was a figure of the spiritual election, for in no other point of view is it here to the Apostle’s purpose. Not only did God choose one of these sons, who were equal as to their parentage, but chose that one who was inferior in priority of birth, the only point in which there was a difference. He chose the younger son, contrary to the usual custom of mankind, and contrary to the law of primogeniture established by God Himself respecting inheritances in the family of Jacob. The dominion of the younger, then, over the elder, flowed, as is shown in the nest verse, from God’s love to the one and hatred to the other; thus proving the election of the one and the reprobation of the other. This strikingly exemplified the manner of God’s dealings towards the nation of Israel, in discriminating between those who were the children of the flesh, and the others who were the children of God's promises and oath. How much instruction do these words, ‘The elder shall serve the younger,’ contain, as standing in the connection in which they are here placed, as well as in that part of Scripture from which they are quoted! They practically teach the great fundamental doctrines of the PRESCIENCE, the PROVIDENCE, the SOVEREIGNTY of God; His PREDESTINATION, ELECTION, and REPROBATION.

Verse 13~“As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Bear with us for its length.

As it is written.... When the Apostles refer in this manner to the Scriptures, they do it as adducing authority which is conclusive and not to be questioned.

The words here quoted from Malachi expressly relate to Jacob and Esau. The Prophet likewise declares the dealing of God towards their posterity, but the part here referred to applies to the progenitors themselves. God is there reproving the people of Israel for their ingratitude, and manifesting His great goodness to them in loving their father Jacob, while He hated his brother Esau, and gave him a mountainous, barren country, as a sign of His hatred.(F2) Thus God preferred Jacob before Esau without respect to the goodness or wickedness of either, attaching good things to the one, and evil to the other, before they were born. And this quotation by the Apostle is intended to prove that the purpose of God, in choosing who shall be His children according to election, might stand, not by works, but of Him that calleth, Romans 9:11

Romans 9:11, which shows that all along the reference is to spiritual and eternal blessings shadowed forth, as is usual in the Prophets, by things that are temporal and carnal. In the same place God likewise declares His dealings towards the posterity of Esau; but the words here quoted expressly refer to Jacob and Esau personally. The Apostle is speaking of heads of nations; and in God’s dealings towards them is found the reason of the difference of the treatment of their posterities. The introduction of Jacob and Esau personally, presents an emblem of this, while the design is to show that some among the Israelites were the children of God, and not others. That the Apostle quotes these words in reference to Jacob and Esau personally, is clear, since he speaks of them before they were born, and declares their conception by one mother, of one father, which could not be said of their posterity.


“Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” —~Jacob was loved before he was born, consequently before he was capable of doing good; and Esau was hated before he was born, consequently before he was capable of doing evil. It may be asked why God hated him before he sinned personally; and human wisdom has proved its folly, by endeavoring to soften the word hated into something less than hatred: but the man who submits like a little child to the word of God, will find no difficulty in seeing in what sense Esau was worthy of the hatred of God before he was born. He sinned in Adam, and was therefore properly an object of God’s hatred as well as fallen Adam. There is no other view that will ever account for this language and this treatment of Esau. By nature, too, he was a wicked creature, conceived in sin, although his faculties were not expanded, or his innate depravity developed, which God, who hath mercy on whom He will have mercy, and hardeneth whom He will, and who giveth no account of His matters, did not see good to counteract by His grace, as in the case of Jacob, who originally was equally wicked, and by nature, like Esau, a child of wrath and a fit object of hatred.

It is not unusual to take part with Esau who was rejected, against Jacob who was the object of Divine favor. Everything that can be made to appear either amiable or virtuous in the character of Esau is eagerly grasped at, and exhibited in the most advantageous light. We are told of his disinterestedness, frankness, and generosity; while we are reminded that Jacob was a cool, selfish, designing man, who was always watching to take advantage of his brother’s simplicity, and who ungenerously and unjustly robbed his elder brother of the blessing and the birthright.

This way of reasoning shows more zeal for the interest of a cause than discretion in its support. Instead of invalidating, it only serves to confirm the truth it opposes. While it is evident that Jacob possessed the fear of God, which was not the case with respect to Esau, — and therefore that the one was born of God, and the other remained a child of nature, — yet there is so much palpable imperfection and evil in Jacob, as to manifest that God did not choose him for the excellence of his foreseen works. In maintaining, then, the doctrine of the sovereignty of God, it is by no means necessary to vindicate the conduct of Jacob towards his brother. Both he and his mother were undoubtedly to blame, much to blame, as to the way in which he obtained his father’s blessing, to the prejudice of Esau, while the revealed purpose of God formed no apology for their conduct. That sin is an evil thing and a bitter, Jacob fully experienced. His conduct in that transaction led him into a maze of troubles, from which through life he was never disentangled. While Jacob was a man of God, and Esau a man of the world, there is enough to show that the inheritance was bestowed on the former not of works but of grace.

Nothing can more clearly manifest the strong opposition of the human mind to the doctrine of the Divine sovereignty, than the violence which human ingenuity has employed to wrest the expression, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. By many this has been explained, ‘Esau have I loved less.’ But Esau was not the object of any degree of the Divine love, and the word hate never signifies to love less. The occurrence of the word in that expression, ‘hate father and mother,’ Luke 14:26 has been alleged in vindication of this explanation; but the word in this last phrase is used figuratively, and in a manner that cannot be mistaken. Although hatred is not meant to be asserted, yet hatred is the thing that is literally expressed. By a strong figure of speech,
that is called hatred which resembles it in its effects. We will not obey those whom we hate, if we can avoid it. Just so, if our parents command us to disobey Jesus Christ, we must not obey them; and this is called hatred, figuratively, from the resemblance of its effects. But in this passage, in which the expression, ‘Esau have I hatred’ occurs, everything is literal. The Apostle is reasoning from premises to a conclusion. Besides, the contrast of loving Jacob with hating Esau, shows that the last phrase is literal and proper hatred. If God’s love to Jacob was real literal love, God’s hatred to Esau must be real literal hatred. It might as well be said that the phrase, ‘Jacob have I loved,’ does not signify that God really loved Jacob, but that to love here signifies only to hate less, and that all that is meant by the expression, is that God hated Jacob less than he hated Esau. If every man’s own mind is a sufficient security against concluding the meaning to be, ‘Jacob have I hated less,’ his judgment ought to be a security against the equally unwarrantable meaning, ‘Esau have I loved less.’

But why, it may be asked of those who object to the plain meaning of the words, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated, and insist that their import is that God loved Esau less than Jacob — why should God love Esau less than Jacob, and that, too, before the children were born, or had done good or evil? Can they explain this? Would it not involve a difficulty which, even on their own principles, they are unable to remove? Why then refuse to admit the natural and obvious signification of the passage? If God says that He hated Esau, are we to avoid receiving God’s testimony, or justified in employing a mode of torture in expounding His words? If, again, Esau, as some insist, were the better character, why was Jacob preferred to him?


In innumerable passages of Scripture, God ascribes to Himself hatred. Men, however, are averse to this. What, then, can be done? The Scriptures must be explained in a forced manner; and while they say that God hates sinners, they are made to say that He does not hate them. Nothing can be more unjustifiable than this method of tampering with and perverting the word of God, and nothing can be more uncalled for. Hatred in itself is not sinful. That which is sinful ought to be hated; and though there is a mixture of evil in man’s hatred of evil, yet there is the same mixture of evil in his love of good. In God’s hatred of sinners, as in all His attributes, there is nothing of sinful feeling. We are not able to comprehend this attribute of the Divine mind; but every other attribute has also its difficulties. We must in this, and in all things, submit to God’s word, and believe it as it speaks, and not as we would have it to speak.

Mankind are divided into two classes, the one to be saved, the other to be lost. To the latter God did no wrong. He left them under condemnation, as is here exemplified in the case of Esau, while He plucked the former, like Jacob, as brands from the burning; and we are expressly told that in this case of Jacob and Esau the reception of the younger, and the rejection of the elder, which were declared previously to their birth, was in order that the purpose of God according to election might stand. This doctrine of the election of some and the rejection of others was also illustrated in Abraham, an idolater, and in the nation of Israel, to whom God showed His word, while He left all other nations to walk in their own ways. Had the whole of Adam’s race perished, God would only have dealt with them as He did with the fallen angels. Why then, it may be said, preach the Gospel to all men? Because it is the appointed means or source of information concerning spiritual truths~while all naturally reject it, God makes His people willing in the day of His power, and produces in them faith by what they hear and by faith the elect come to understand the great spiritual blessing freely given to them through Christ. Paul endured all things for the elect’s sake. He used the means, knowing that God would give the increase. The election thus obtain life, and the rest are blinded by the God of this world. Ishmael was rejected, and Isaac was chosen before he was born; and in the same way Jacob the younger was preferred to Esau his elder brother ~ Jacob was loved, but Esau was hated.

The passage in Malachi, from which these words, ‘Esau have I hated,’ are quoted by the Apostle, proves what is meant by the expression in the verse before us. ‘I have loved you, saith the Lord: yet ye say, Wherein hast Thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.’ Here the Prophet first speaks of Esau personally as Jacob’s brother, which clearly indicates the meaning attached by the Apostle to the quotation. It implies, too, that Jacob had no claim to be preferred to his brother. Afterwards, in the denunciation, Esau’s descendants are spoken of under the name of Edom, when the singular is changed for the plural, and the past time for the future and the present. The denunciation of indignation for ever upon the Edomites, and the call of God to Israel to observe the difference of His dealings towards them, shows what is meant by God’s love of Jacob, and His hatred of Esau.

The declarations of God by the Prophet in the above quoted passage are fully substantiated throughout the Scriptures, both in regard to His loving Jacob and hating Esau personally; and likewise in regard to the indignation which He manifested against Esau’s descendants. Jacob is everywhere spoken of as the servant of God, highly honored by many Divine communications. Jacob wrestled with God, and had power over Him, and prevailed, Hosea 12:4-5

In the life of Esau, nothing is recorded indicating that he had the fear of God before his eyes, but everything to prove the reverse. The most important transaction recorded concerning him is his profane contempt for God’s blessing in selling his birthright, manifesting his unbelief and indifference respecting the promise to Abraham. We see him also taking women of Canaan as his wives, although he had the example before him of Abraham’s concern that Isaac should not marry any of the daughters of that country. In this we observe that he held as lightly the curse denounced against Canaan as he did the blessing promised to Abraham. We next see him deliberately resolving to murder his brother. ‘The days of mourning for my father are at hand, then will I slay my brother Jacob.’ Long after, although restrained from violence, he goes out to meet him with an armed force. At last he turns his back on the habitation of his fathers, and departs for ever from the land of promise. Towards the conclusion of the Epistle to the Hebrews, where the sale of his birthright is referred to, and where Jacob is numbered among those who both lived and died in faith, Esau is characterized as ‘a profane person,’ Hebrews 12:16

The selling of his birthright proved Esau to be an unbelieving, profane, and ungodly man, and the Apostle warns believers not to act according to his example. The birthright conferred a double inheritance among the Hebrew patriarchs, and likewise pre-eminence, because it was connected with the descent of the Messiah; and they to whom this right belonged were also types of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. Despising the birthright proved that he despised the high distinction respecting the coming of the Messiah, and also the eternal inheritance of which the land of Canaan and the double portion of the firstborn were typical. Here the question of Esau’s character as an ungodly man is decided by the pen of inspiration long after his death. And is this ‘profane person,’ who not only despised the birthright fraught with such unspeakable privileges, but who had deliberately made up his mind revengefully to murder his brother in cold blood, to be viewed as he has been represented, as amiable, disinterested, and virtuous, in defiance of every moral principle, and in direct opposition to the testimony of the word of God?

Such is the account which the Scriptures give of Esau personally; and how fully the denunciations above quoted from the Prophet respecting his descendants were accomplished, we learn from numerous passages throughout the Scriptures, as Ezekiel 25:12

From the whole of the prophecy of Obadiah, where the destruction of Edom, and the victories of the house of Jacob, are contrasted. ‘But upon Mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau: for the Lord hath spoken it.’ Is it then in the unambiguous testimony of Scripture respecting Esau personally, as a profane person, and respecting his descendants, ‘the people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever,’ — is it among the many indications of God’s goodness to Jacob, — that we find any countenance given to the imagination that God loved Esau only in a less degree than He loved Jacob? When men, by such methods as are resorted to on this subject, pervert the obvious meaning of the word of God, in order to maintain their preconceived systems, it manifests deplorable disaffection to the truth of God, and most culpable inattention to His plainest declarations.

It is evident that the quotation from the Old Testament of these words, ‘Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated,’ is here made by the Apostle with the design of illustrating the great truth which he is laboring through the whole of this chapter to substantiate; namely, that in the rejection of the great body of the Jewish nation, as being ‘vessels of wrath,’ while He reserved for Himself a remnant among them as ‘vessels of mercy,’ Romans 9:22-23
neither the purpose nor the promises of God had failed. In proof of this, Paul asserts that all the seed of Abraham were not the children of God, and that God had plainly exhibited this truth in distinguishing and choosing Isaac, that in his line, in preference to that of Abraham’s other children, the Redeemer should come; and in further proof, he adduces the still stronger example of God’s loving Jacob and hating Esau, choosing the one and rejecting the other. And as the manner of God’s procedure is so contrary to the opinion which men naturally form of the way in which He should act, the Apostle immediately after affirms that in this there is no unrighteousness in God, and fully proves in what follows, that so far from being contrary to His usual mode of procedure, it is strictly in accordance with it, both in showing mercy on the one hand, according to His sovereign pleasure, and, on the other, in displaying His hatred of those whom He hardens. Having thus asserted that such is God’s manner of acting towards men, which, being established, ought to stop every mouth, the Apostle at once shuts the door against all impious reasonings on the subject, and indignantly demands of any one who should dare to controvert this view of the subject, — Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Such persons, then, as deny that the expression, ‘Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated,’ imports literal love of the one and literal hatred of the other, viewing it as an isolated declaration, detached from its connection, and judging of it from their preconceived opinions, as if such a manner of acting were unworthy of God, not only disregard the usual legitimate rules of interpreting language, and employ a most unwarrantable mode of torture in expounding these words, but prove that they misapprehend the whole drift of the Apostle’s argument, and have no discernment of his purpose in introducing this example. For how would God’s rejection of a part of the nation of Israel as ‘vessels of wrath,’ and His reserving a remnant among them as ‘vessels of mercy,’ be illustrated by His loving Esau only less than Jacob? Does the idea of loving less consist with the idea held forth in the expression vessels of WRATH?
The whole of the context throughout this ninth chapter, as well as the concluding part of the eighth, proves that respecting Jacob and Esau the reference is to their spiritual and eternal state. At the 29th verse of the preceding chapter, the Apostle, after exhibiting to believers various topics of the richest consolation, had traced up all their high privileges to the eternal purpose of God, and had dwelt in the sequel on their perfect security as His elect. In the beginning of this chapter, he had turned his eye, with deep lamentation, to the very different state of his countrymen, who, notwithstanding all their distinguished advantages, had rejected the Messiah. This gave occasion for enlarging on the sovereignty of God in the opposite aspect to that in which he had treated it in respect to believers. In reference to believers, he had spoken of God’s sovereignty as displaying itself in their election, and now, in reference to the great body Of the Jews, as manifested in their rejection. By this arrangement, an opportunity was afforded most strikingly to exhibit that doctrine, by personal application in both cases.

The vessels of the other description were these who were as ‘Sodom, and had been made like unto Gomorrah,’ which suffered the vengeance of eternal fire. What trifling, then, what wresting of this important portion of the word of God, what turning of it entirely away from its true meaning, to represent this chapter, as so many do, as treating of the outward state of the Jews, or to deny, with others, that the spiritual and everlasting condition of Jacob and Esau are here referred to! If the eternal condition of Abraham and of Judas be determined in the Scriptures, so also is that of Jacob and Esau; and no meaning, which, from whatever motive, any man may affix to the whole tenor of Scripture respecting them, will alter their condition. It is better to submit to the word of God on this and every other subject, taking it in its obvious import, than to be deterred from doing so on account of consequences from the admission of which we may shrink back. All Scripture will thus be profitable to us for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, while we are sure that the Judge of all the earth will do right.

What is said of Jacob and Esau in the Old Testament, in the place to which Paul refers, is both historical and typical. It relates, in the first view, to themselves personally, the elder being made subservient to the younger by selling his birthright. In consequence of that act, the declaration, The elder shall serve the younger, was verified from the time when it took place. All the rights of the firstborn were thus transferred to Jacob, and the inheritance of Canaan devolved on him by the surrender of his ungodly brother. At length Esau was compelled to leave that land, and to yield to Jacob. When the riches of both of them were more than that they might dwell together,’ ‘Esau,’ it is said, ‘took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance which he had got in the land of Canaan, and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob, Genesis 36:6

Whatever, therefore, might have previously been the opposition of their interests, in this the most important act of his life relating to Jacob, Esau was finally made subservient to his younger brother. And this subserviency, in yielding up the inheritance which naturally belonged to him, continued during the remainder of their lives; so that the declaration, ‘The elder shall serve the younger,’ was, after various struggles between them, personally and literally fulfilled. In the second view, as being typical, what is said of them relates, on the one hand, to the state of Israel after the flesh, trampling on and forfeiting their high privileges, hated of God, and vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and, on the other hand, to the vessels of mercy which God had afore prepared unto glory.

In loving Jacob, God showed him unmerited favor, and acted towards him in mercy; and in hating Esau, He showed him no favor who was entitled to none, and acted according to justice. Had God acted also in justice without mercy towards Jacob, He would have hated both; for both were in their origin guilty in Adam, wicked and deserving of hatred. The Apostle unveils the reason why this was not the case, when he afterwards says that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy. The justice of God in hating Esau was made fully manifest in the sequel by his abuse of the high privileges in the course of providence bestowed upon him. Notwithstanding all the advantages of instruction and example with which, beyond all others of the human race (with the exception of the rest of his family), he was distinguished, Esau despised his birthright, fraught with so many blessings, the natural right to which had been conferred on him in preference to his brother Jacob, and lived an ungodly life. If Jacob, who was placed in the same situation proved himself to be a godly man, it was entirely owing to the distinguishing grace of God. If it be objected, why was not this grace also vouchsafed to Esau? it may as well be asked, why are not the whole of mankind saved? That this will not be the case, even they who oppose the sovereignty of God in the election of grace cannot deny. Besides, will they, who affirm that God chooses men to eternal life because He foresees that they will do good works, deny that, at least, God foresaw the wickedness of Esau’s life? Even on their own principles, then, it was just to hate Esau before he was born; and, on the same ground of foreseeing his good works, it would have been just to love Jacob. Or will they say that this hatred should not have taken place till after Esau had acted such a part? This would prove that there is variableness with God, and that He does not hate to-day what He will hate to-morrow. Where, then, is the necessity for any one, whatever may be his sentiments, to resort to the vain attempt to show that, when it is said God loved Jacob and hated Esau, it only means that He loved Esau less than Jacob?
Later...




 
There's two more, but even if you cannot confess the eternal phrase, how in the world do you not see the legal phrase? Just a few verses:

  1. We were justified – made legally righteous before God – by His blood (Romans 5:9).
  2. We were reconciled – restored to friendly terms with God – by His death (Rom 5:10).
  3. We were accepted – received as favorable objects by God – by His death (Eph 1:6).
  4. We were adopted – purchased as sons from hell’s orphanage – by His death (Gal 4:5).
  5. We were redeemed – bought back from just condemnation – by His death (I Pet 1:18).
  6. We were washed – our sins purged away in God’s sight – by His blood (Rev 1:5).
  7. We were sanctified – made formally holy before God – by His death (Hebrews 10:10).
  8. He became our atonement – sacrificial gift of appeasement – by His death (Rom 5:11).
  9. He became our propitiation – sacrificial gift of appeasement – by death (Romans 3:25).
  10. Some places have several aspects of His death’s profit (Rom 8:29-30; I Cor 1:30; 6:11)
  11. And the pleasure of the Lord, salvation of His elect, prospered in His hand (Is 53:10).
  12. It was a representative death of the representative for his constituents (Rom 5:12-19).
  13. Our Lord Jesus went to His crucifixion death as a meek Lamb to the slaughter for his people. (Is 53:7).
  14. God's elect were crucified with Christ, died with him. and arose from the dead with him~all legally. Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 2:4,5; Romans 5, etc.
These are just a few of many that could be given. We also have many concerning eternal phrase, like to see them?
And His death made atonement for the sins of all the world- 1 John 2:2. :)
 
This was a figure of the spiritual election, for in no other point of view is it here to the Apostle’s purpose. Not only did God choose one of these sons, who were equal as to their parentage, but chose that one who was inferior in priority of birth, the only point in which there was a difference. He chose the younger son, contrary to the usual custom of mankind, and contrary to the law of primogeniture established by God Himself respecting inheritances in the family of Jacob. The dominion of the younger, then, over the elder, flowed, as is shown in the nest verse, from God’s love to the one and hatred to the other; thus proving the election of the one and the reprobation of the other. This strikingly exemplified the manner of God’s dealings towards the nation of Israel, in discriminating between those who were the children of the flesh, and the others who were the children of God's promises and oath. How much instruction do these words, ‘The elder shall serve the younger,’ contain, as standing in the connection in which they are here placed, as well as in that part of Scripture from which they are quoted! They practically teach the great fundamental doctrines of the PRESCIENCE, the PROVIDENCE, the SOVEREIGNTY of God; His PREDESTINATION, ELECTION, and REPROBATION.

Verse 13~“As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Bear with us for its length.

As it is written.... When the Apostles refer in this manner to the Scriptures, they do it as adducing authority which is conclusive and not to be questioned.

The words here quoted from Malachi expressly relate to Jacob and Esau. The Prophet likewise declares the dealing of God towards their posterity, but the part here referred to applies to the progenitors themselves. God is there reproving the people of Israel for their ingratitude, and manifesting His great goodness to them in loving their father Jacob, while He hated his brother Esau, and gave him a mountainous, barren country, as a sign of His hatred.(F2) Thus God preferred Jacob before Esau without respect to the goodness or wickedness of either, attaching good things to the one, and evil to the other, before they were born. And this quotation by the Apostle is intended to prove that the purpose of God, in choosing who shall be His children according to election, might stand, not by works, but of Him that calleth, Romans 9:11


Romans 9:11, which shows that all along the reference is to spiritual and eternal blessings shadowed forth, as is usual in the Prophets, by things that are temporal and carnal. In the same place God likewise declares His dealings towards the posterity of Esau; but the words here quoted expressly refer to Jacob and Esau personally. The Apostle is speaking of heads of nations; and in God’s dealings towards them is found the reason of the difference of the treatment of their posterities. The introduction of Jacob and Esau personally, presents an emblem of this, while the design is to show that some among the Israelites were the children of God, and not others. That the Apostle quotes these words in reference to Jacob and Esau personally, is clear, since he speaks of them before they were born, and declares their conception by one mother, of one father, which could not be said of their posterity.


“Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” —~Jacob was loved before he was born, consequently before he was capable of doing good; and Esau was hated before he was born, consequently before he was capable of doing evil. It may be asked why God hated him before he sinned personally; and human wisdom has proved its folly, by endeavoring to soften the word hated into something less than hatred: but the man who submits like a little child to the word of God, will find no difficulty in seeing in what sense Esau was worthy of the hatred of God before he was born. He sinned in Adam, and was therefore properly an object of God’s hatred as well as fallen Adam. There is no other view that will ever account for this language and this treatment of Esau. By nature, too, he was a wicked creature, conceived in sin, although his faculties were not expanded, or his innate depravity developed, which God, who hath mercy on whom He will have mercy, and hardeneth whom He will, and who giveth no account of His matters, did not see good to counteract by His grace, as in the case of Jacob, who originally was equally wicked, and by nature, like Esau, a child of wrath and a fit object of hatred.

It is not unusual to take part with Esau who was rejected, against Jacob who was the object of Divine favor. Everything that can be made to appear either amiable or virtuous in the character of Esau is eagerly grasped at, and exhibited in the most advantageous light. We are told of his disinterestedness, frankness, and generosity; while we are reminded that Jacob was a cool, selfish, designing man, who was always watching to take advantage of his brother’s simplicity, and who ungenerously and unjustly robbed his elder brother of the blessing and the birthright.

This way of reasoning shows more zeal for the interest of a cause than discretion in its support. Instead of invalidating, it only serves to confirm the truth it opposes. While it is evident that Jacob possessed the fear of God, which was not the case with respect to Esau, — and therefore that the one was born of God, and the other remained a child of nature, — yet there is so much palpable imperfection and evil in Jacob, as to manifest that God did not choose him for the excellence of his foreseen works. In maintaining, then, the doctrine of the sovereignty of God, it is by no means necessary to vindicate the conduct of Jacob towards his brother. Both he and his mother were undoubtedly to blame, much to blame, as to the way in which he obtained his father’s blessing, to the prejudice of Esau, while the revealed purpose of God formed no apology for their conduct. That sin is an evil thing and a bitter, Jacob fully experienced. His conduct in that transaction led him into a maze of troubles, from which through life he was never disentangled. While Jacob was a man of God, and Esau a man of the world, there is enough to show that the inheritance was bestowed on the former not of works but of grace.

Nothing can more clearly manifest the strong opposition of the human mind to the doctrine of the Divine sovereignty, than the violence which human ingenuity has employed to wrest the expression, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. By many this has been explained, ‘Esau have I loved less.’ But Esau was not the object of any degree of the Divine love, and the word hate never signifies to love less. The occurrence of the word in that expression, ‘hate father and mother,’ Luke 14:26 has been alleged in vindication of this explanation; but the word in this last phrase is used figuratively, and in a manner that cannot be mistaken. Although hatred is not meant to be asserted, yet hatred is the thing that is literally expressed. By a strong figure of speech,
that is called hatred which resembles it in its effects. We will not obey those whom we hate, if we can avoid it. Just so, if our parents command us to disobey Jesus Christ, we must not obey them; and this is called hatred, figuratively, from the resemblance of its effects. But in this passage, in which the expression, ‘Esau have I hatred’ occurs, everything is literal. The Apostle is reasoning from premises to a conclusion. Besides, the contrast of loving Jacob with hating Esau, shows that the last phrase is literal and proper hatred. If God’s love to Jacob was real literal love, God’s hatred to Esau must be real literal hatred. It might as well be said that the phrase, ‘Jacob have I loved,’ does not signify that God really loved Jacob, but that to love here signifies only to hate less, and that all that is meant by the expression, is that God hated Jacob less than he hated Esau. If every man’s own mind is a sufficient security against concluding the meaning to be, ‘Jacob have I hated less,’ his judgment ought to be a security against the equally unwarrantable meaning, ‘Esau have I loved less.’

But why, it may be asked of those who object to the plain meaning of the words, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated, and insist that their import is that God loved Esau less than Jacob — why should God love Esau less than Jacob, and that, too, before the children were born, or had done good or evil? Can they explain this? Would it not involve a difficulty which, even on their own principles, they are unable to remove? Why then refuse to admit the natural and obvious signification of the passage? If God says that He hated Esau, are we to avoid receiving God’s testimony, or justified in employing a mode of torture in expounding His words? If, again, Esau, as some insist, were the better character, why was Jacob preferred to him?


In innumerable passages of Scripture, God ascribes to Himself hatred. Men, however, are averse to this. What, then, can be done? The Scriptures must be explained in a forced manner; and while they say that God hates sinners, they are made to say that He does not hate them. Nothing can be more unjustifiable than this method of tampering with and perverting the word of God, and nothing can be more uncalled for. Hatred in itself is not sinful. That which is sinful ought to be hated; and though there is a mixture of evil in man’s hatred of evil, yet there is the same mixture of evil in his love of good. In God’s hatred of sinners, as in all His attributes, there is nothing of sinful feeling. We are not able to comprehend this attribute of the Divine mind; but every other attribute has also its difficulties. We must in this, and in all things, submit to God’s word, and believe it as it speaks, and not as we would have it to speak.

Mankind are divided into two classes, the one to be saved, the other to be lost. To the latter God did no wrong. He left them under condemnation, as is here exemplified in the case of Esau, while He plucked the former, like Jacob, as brands from the burning; and we are expressly told that in this case of Jacob and Esau the reception of the younger, and the rejection of the elder, which were declared previously to their birth, was in order that the purpose of God according to election might stand. This doctrine of the election of some and the rejection of others was also illustrated in Abraham, an idolater, and in the nation of Israel, to whom God showed His word, while He left all other nations to walk in their own ways. Had the whole of Adam’s race perished, God would only have dealt with them as He did with the fallen angels. Why then, it may be said, preach the Gospel to all men? Because it is the appointed means or source of information concerning spiritual truths~while all naturally reject it, God makes His people willing in the day of His power, and produces in them faith by what they hear and by faith the elect come to understand the great spiritual blessing freely given to them through Christ. Paul endured all things for the elect’s sake. He used the means, knowing that God would give the increase. The election thus obtain life, and the rest are blinded by the God of this world. Ishmael was rejected, and Isaac was chosen before he was born; and in the same way Jacob the younger was preferred to Esau his elder brother ~ Jacob was loved, but Esau was hated.

The passage in Malachi, from which these words, ‘Esau have I hated,’ are quoted by the Apostle, proves what is meant by the expression in the verse before us. ‘I have loved you, saith the Lord: yet ye say, Wherein hast Thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.’ Here the Prophet first speaks of Esau personally as Jacob’s brother, which clearly indicates the meaning attached by the Apostle to the quotation. It implies, too, that Jacob had no claim to be preferred to his brother. Afterwards, in the denunciation, Esau’s descendants are spoken of under the name of Edom, when the singular is changed for the plural, and the past time for the future and the present. The denunciation of indignation for ever upon the Edomites, and the call of God to Israel to observe the difference of His dealings towards them, shows what is meant by God’s love of Jacob, and His hatred of Esau.

The declarations of God by the Prophet in the above quoted passage are fully substantiated throughout the Scriptures, both in regard to His loving Jacob and hating Esau personally; and likewise in regard to the indignation which He manifested against Esau’s descendants. Jacob is everywhere spoken of as the servant of God, highly honored by many Divine communications. Jacob wrestled with God, and had power over Him, and prevailed, Hosea 12:4-5

In the life of Esau, nothing is recorded indicating that he had the fear of God before his eyes, but everything to prove the reverse. The most important transaction recorded concerning him is his profane contempt for God’s blessing in selling his birthright, manifesting his unbelief and indifference respecting the promise to Abraham. We see him also taking women of Canaan as his wives, although he had the example before him of Abraham’s concern that Isaac should not marry any of the daughters of that country. In this we observe that he held as lightly the curse denounced against Canaan as he did the blessing promised to Abraham. We next see him deliberately resolving to murder his brother. ‘The days of mourning for my father are at hand, then will I slay my brother Jacob.’ Long after, although restrained from violence, he goes out to meet him with an armed force. At last he turns his back on the habitation of his fathers, and departs for ever from the land of promise. Towards the conclusion of the Epistle to the Hebrews, where the sale of his birthright is referred to, and where Jacob is numbered among those who both lived and died in faith, Esau is characterized as ‘a profane person,’ Hebrews 12:16


The selling of his birthright proved Esau to be an unbelieving, profane, and ungodly man, and the Apostle warns believers not to act according to his example. The birthright conferred a double inheritance among the Hebrew patriarchs, and likewise pre-eminence, because it was connected with the descent of the Messiah; and they to whom this right belonged were also types of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. Despising the birthright proved that he despised the high distinction respecting the coming of the Messiah, and also the eternal inheritance of which the land of Canaan and the double portion of the firstborn were typical. Here the question of Esau’s character as an ungodly man is decided by the pen of inspiration long after his death. And is this ‘profane person,’ who not only despised the birthright fraught with such unspeakable privileges, but who had deliberately made up his mind revengefully to murder his brother in cold blood, to be viewed as he has been represented, as amiable, disinterested, and virtuous, in defiance of every moral principle, and in direct opposition to the testimony of the word of God?

Such is the account which the Scriptures give of Esau personally; and how fully the denunciations above quoted from the Prophet respecting his descendants were accomplished, we learn from numerous passages throughout the Scriptures, as Ezekiel 25:12

From the whole of the prophecy of Obadiah, where the destruction of Edom, and the victories of the house of Jacob, are contrasted. ‘But upon Mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau: for the Lord hath spoken it.’ Is it then in the unambiguous testimony of Scripture respecting Esau personally, as a profane person, and respecting his descendants, ‘the people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever,’ — is it among the many indications of God’s goodness to Jacob, — that we find any countenance given to the imagination that God loved Esau only in a less degree than He loved Jacob? When men, by such methods as are resorted to on this subject, pervert the obvious meaning of the word of God, in order to maintain their preconceived systems, it manifests deplorable disaffection to the truth of God, and most culpable inattention to His plainest declarations.

It is evident that the quotation from the Old Testament of these words, ‘Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated,’ is here made by the Apostle with the design of illustrating the great truth which he is laboring through the whole of this chapter to substantiate; namely, that in the rejection of the great body of the Jewish nation, as being ‘vessels of wrath,’ while He reserved for Himself a remnant among them as ‘vessels of mercy,’ Romans 9:22-23 neither the purpose nor the promises of God had failed. In proof of this, Paul asserts that all the seed of Abraham were not the children of God, and that God had plainly exhibited this truth in distinguishing and choosing Isaac, that in his line, in preference to that of Abraham’s other children, the Redeemer should come; and in further proof, he adduces the still stronger example of God’s loving Jacob and hating Esau, choosing the one and rejecting the other. And as the manner of God’s procedure is so contrary to the opinion which men naturally form of the way in which He should act, the Apostle immediately after affirms that in this there is no unrighteousness in God, and fully proves in what follows, that so far from being contrary to His usual mode of procedure, it is strictly in accordance with it, both in showing mercy on the one hand, according to His sovereign pleasure, and, on the other, in displaying His hatred of those whom He hardens. Having thus asserted that such is God’s manner of acting towards men, which, being established, ought to stop every mouth, the Apostle at once shuts the door against all impious reasonings on the subject, and indignantly demands of any one who should dare to controvert this view of the subject, — Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Such persons, then, as deny that the expression, ‘Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated,’ imports literal love of the one and literal hatred of the other, viewing it as an isolated declaration, detached from its connection, and judging of it from their preconceived opinions, as if such a manner of acting were unworthy of God, not only disregard the usual legitimate rules of interpreting language, and employ a most unwarrantable mode of torture in expounding these words, but prove that they misapprehend the whole drift of the Apostle’s argument, and have no discernment of his purpose in introducing this example. For how would God’s rejection of a part of the nation of Israel as ‘vessels of wrath,’ and His reserving a remnant among them as ‘vessels of mercy,’ be illustrated by His loving Esau only less than Jacob? Does the idea of loving less consist with the idea held forth in the expression vessels of WRATH?
The whole of the context throughout this ninth chapter, as well as the concluding part of the eighth, proves that respecting Jacob and Esau the reference is to their spiritual and eternal state. At the 29th verse of the preceding chapter, the Apostle, after exhibiting to believers various topics of the richest consolation, had traced up all their high privileges to the eternal purpose of God, and had dwelt in the sequel on their perfect security as His elect. In the beginning of this chapter, he had turned his eye, with deep lamentation, to the very different state of his countrymen, who, notwithstanding all their distinguished advantages, had rejected the Messiah. This gave occasion for enlarging on the sovereignty of God in the opposite aspect to that in which he had treated it in respect to believers. In reference to believers, he had spoken of God’s sovereignty as displaying itself in their election, and now, in reference to the great body Of the Jews, as manifested in their rejection. By this arrangement, an opportunity was afforded most strikingly to exhibit that doctrine, by personal application in both cases.

The vessels of the other description were these who were as ‘Sodom, and had been made like unto Gomorrah,’ which suffered the vengeance of eternal fire. What trifling, then, what wresting of this important portion of the word of God, what turning of it entirely away from its true meaning, to represent this chapter, as so many do, as treating of the outward state of the Jews, or to deny, with others, that the spiritual and everlasting condition of Jacob and Esau are here referred to! If the eternal condition of Abraham and of Judas be determined in the Scriptures, so also is that of Jacob and Esau; and no meaning, which, from whatever motive, any man may affix to the whole tenor of Scripture respecting them, will alter their condition. It is better to submit to the word of God on this and every other subject, taking it in its obvious import, than to be deterred from doing so on account of consequences from the admission of which we may shrink back. All Scripture will thus be profitable to us for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, while we are sure that the Judge of all the earth will do right.

What is said of Jacob and Esau in the Old Testament, in the place to which Paul refers, is both historical and typical. It relates, in the first view, to themselves personally, the elder being made subservient to the younger by selling his birthright. In consequence of that act, the declaration, The elder shall serve the younger, was verified from the time when it took place. All the rights of the firstborn were thus transferred to Jacob, and the inheritance of Canaan devolved on him by the surrender of his ungodly brother. At length Esau was compelled to leave that land, and to yield to Jacob. When the riches of both of them were more than that they might dwell together,’ ‘Esau,’ it is said, ‘took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance which he had got in the land of Canaan, and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob, Genesis 36:6

Whatever, therefore, might have previously been the opposition of their interests, in this the most important act of his life relating to Jacob, Esau was finally made subservient to his younger brother. And this subserviency, in yielding up the inheritance which naturally belonged to him, continued during the remainder of their lives; so that the declaration, ‘The elder shall serve the younger,’ was, after various struggles between them, personally and literally fulfilled. In the second view, as being typical, what is said of them relates, on the one hand, to the state of Israel after the flesh, trampling on and forfeiting their high privileges, hated of God, and vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and, on the other hand, to the vessels of mercy which God had afore prepared unto glory.

In loving Jacob, God showed him unmerited favor, and acted towards him in mercy; and in hating Esau, He showed him no favor who was entitled to none, and acted according to justice. Had God acted also in justice without mercy towards Jacob, He would have hated both; for both were in their origin guilty in Adam, wicked and deserving of hatred. The Apostle unveils the reason why this was not the case, when he afterwards says that God has mercy on whom He will have mercy. The justice of God in hating Esau was made fully manifest in the sequel by his abuse of the high privileges in the course of providence bestowed upon him. Notwithstanding all the advantages of instruction and example with which, beyond all others of the human race (with the exception of the rest of his family), he was distinguished, Esau despised his birthright, fraught with so many blessings, the natural right to which had been conferred on him in preference to his brother Jacob, and lived an ungodly life. If Jacob, who was placed in the same situation proved himself to be a godly man, it was entirely owing to the distinguishing grace of God. If it be objected, why was not this grace also vouchsafed to Esau? it may as well be asked, why are not the whole of mankind saved? That this will not be the case, even they who oppose the sovereignty of God in the election of grace cannot deny. Besides, will they, who affirm that God chooses men to eternal life because He foresees that they will do good works, deny that, at least, God foresaw the wickedness of Esau’s life? Even on their own principles, then, it was just to hate Esau before he was born; and, on the same ground of foreseeing his good works, it would have been just to love Jacob. Or will they say that this hatred should not have taken place till after Esau had acted such a part? This would prove that there is variableness with God, and that He does not hate to-day what He will hate to-morrow. Where, then, is the necessity for any one, whatever may be his sentiments, to resort to the vain attempt to show that, when it is said God loved Jacob and hated Esau, it only means that He loved Esau less than Jacob?
Later...
Miseo in the lexicon , hate means to esteem less, to love less- even many Calvinist theologians agree that is the meaning. The same meaing from Jesus when He said a disciple must hate his own mother, father to come follow Him. Hate there means the exact same thing. You love your mother/father less than you do Jesus- You esteem Jesus more, love Him more.

Why would God bless Esau if He actually hated him ?

An oxymoron once again in your theology, a contradiction.

miseó: to hate

Original Word:
μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

HELPS Word-studies

3404
miséō – properly, to detest (on a comparativebasis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.

Lk 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (3404 /miséō, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple" (NASU).

[Note the comparative meaning of 3404 (miséō) which centers in moral choice, elevating one value over another.]

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 BDAG


BDAG.
② to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13 (Mal 1:2f). Perh. 2 Cl 6:6 (s. 1b). (JDenney, The Word ‘Hate’ in Lk 14:26: ET 21, 1910, 41f; WBleibtreu, Paradoxe Aussprüche Jesu: Theol. Arbeiten aus d. wissensch. Prediger-Verein d. Rheinprovinz, new ser. 20, 24, 15–35; RSockman, The Paradoxes of J. ’36).—ACarr, The Mng. of ‘Hatred’ in the NT: Exp. 6th ser., 12, 1905, 153–60.—DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW.

And here is a Greek Scholar/Teacher Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here are more renown Scholars

Esau I hated. I.e., “loved less,” according to an ancient Near Eastern hyperbole. It expresses the lack of gratuitous election of Esau and the Edomites (Idumaeans). See Gen 29:30–31: “he loved Rachel more than Leah …; when the Lord saw that Leah was hated …”; cf. Deut 21:15–17; compare Luke 14:26 (“hate”) with Matt 10:37 (“love more”). There is no hint here of predestination to “grace” or “glory” of an individual; it is an expression of the choice of corporate Israel over corporate Edom.

Joseph A. Fitzmyer S.J., Romans: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 33, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 563.

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom. Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans,

hope this helps !!!
 
So you are saying that Jesus was a follower of someone who lived 1500 years after Jesus did? Hmmm? No, Calvin was the founder of a false doctrine that many have glomed onto because it sounds nice and takes away all responsibility for the eternal destiny of its proponents. But each individual has the responsibility for his own soul's destiny, and clinging to Calvin's false doctrine does not remove that responsibility.
Doug, of course I was mocking a little. Couple of things noteworthy.

John Calvin founded no religion. I highly respect him on more so his practical teachings than on his doctrine on the love of God and its scope, etc. Before Calvin you have many others who taught on election of grace, reprobation, etc. Calvin was a student of Augustine who live around 400 hundred years after the apostles. Beside Martin Luther was a half of a generation ahead of Calvin he too taught the same.

Calvin was the man that wrote the Institutes of the Christian Religion which Systematized its doctrines in a format that made it easy comprehend its teachings.
 
And His death made atonement for the sins of all the world- 1 John 2:2. :)
Yes indeed~Jews and Gentiles the meaning of the word world in the text. All without distinction, not all without exceptions, for there are hundreds of scriptures proving that God does indeed makes exceptions.

John a minister of the circumcision was writing to them telling them that Jesus did not only died for the Jews but for the world...... Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 2:9​


“And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.”
 
Yes indeed~Jews and Gentiles the meaning of the word world in the text. All without distinction, not all without exceptions, for there are hundreds of scriptures proving that God does indeed makes exceptions.

John a minister of the circumcision was writing to them telling them that Jesus did not only died for the Jews but for the world...... Jews and Gentiles.
no all the world in 1 John 2:2 does not mean jews and gentiles and John not once makes that distinction in 1 John.

The Golden Rule of Interpretation

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),founder of The Biblical Research Society

These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception.

Thayers

Cosmos: the inhabitants of the

5. world
: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.

6.
"the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου

b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
 
This was a figure of the spiritual election, for in no other point of view is it here to the Apostle’s purpose. Not only did God choose one of these sons, who were equal as to their parentage, but chose that one who was inferior in priority of birth, the only point in which there was a difference. He chose the younger son, contrary to the usual custom of mankind, and contrary to the law of primogeniture established by God Himself respecting inheritances in the family of Jacob. The dominion of the younger, then, over the elder, flowed, as is shown in the nest verse, from God’s love to the one and hatred to the other; thus proving the election of the one and the reprobation of the other. This strikingly exemplified the manner of God’s dealings towards the nation of Israel, in discriminating between those who were the children of the flesh, and the others who were the children of God's promises and oath. How much instruction do these words, ‘The elder shall serve the younger,’ contain, as standing in the connection in which they are here placed, as well as in that part of Scripture from which they are quoted! They practically teach the great fundamental doctrines of the PRESCIENCE, the PROVIDENCE, the SOVEREIGNTY of God; His PREDESTINATION, ELECTION, and REPROBATION.
Begging the question. Paul does not say that

further Paul is showing God's right to make covenant with those he wills to and God's right to harden those who reject his plan

God had promised Abraham

Genesis 12:1–3 (ESV) — 1 Now the LORD said to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

to fulfil that purpose God chose a covenant peoples

It was not based solely on Natural generation

God reject Abraham's first born Ismael

he also rejected the first born Esau and chose Jacob

that his purpose and promise would be fulfilled

I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Esau descendant the Edomites had cursed Israel opposing God's plan

Malachi 1:2–4 (ESV) — 2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” 4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’ ”

as show by


Edom’s Violence Against Jacob

Obadiah 10–14 (ESV) — 10 Because of the violence done to your brother Jacob, shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off forever. 11 On the day that you stood aloof, on the day that strangers carried off his wealth and foreigners entered his gates and cast lots for Jerusalem, you were like one of them. 12 But do not gloat over the day of your brother in the day of his misfortune; do not rejoice over the people of Judah in the day of their ruin; do not boast in the day of distress. 13 Do not enter the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; do not gloat over his disaster in the day of his calamity; do not loot his wealth in the day of his calamity. 14 Do not stand at the crossroads to cut off his fugitives; do not hand over his survivors in the day of distress.

There is nothing there about Jacob's (Israel) personal salvation or Esau (Edom's) personal salvation

Jacob would bring about the lineage which would be God's covenant people Esau would not

God will harden those who oppose his plan as he did with pharoah

while the Jews believed their lineage guaranteed their being shown mercy and righteousness

Paul shows God grants mercy based on his own determination which throughout Romans is upon those who believe. They receive his mercy and righteousness

because of unfaithfulness he hardens most of Israel

Romans 10:17–21 (ESV) — 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” 19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” 20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.” 21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”

and cuts them off

Romans 11:19–23 (ESV) — 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

thus read in context

and confirmed by Pauls summary of the matter

Romans 9:30–32 (ESV) — 30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

there is no support at all for the Calvinists view of unconditional election to salvation
 
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Doug, of course I was mocking a little. Couple of things noteworthy.

John Calvin founded no religion.
I didn't say he founded a religion. I said he was the founder of a FALSE DOCTRINE. He may have started off as a believer in Christ, but he drifted off into some very bad theology when he stopped following the Scriptures and stared following other people's teachings as you mention below.
I highly respect him on more so his practical teachings than on his doctrine on the love of God and its scope, etc. Before Calvin you have many others who taught on election of grace, reprobation, etc. Calvin was a student of Augustine who live around 400 hundred years after the apostles. Beside Martin Luther was a half of a generation ahead of Calvin he too taught the same.

Calvin was the man that wrote the Institutes of the Christian Religion which Systematized its doctrines in a format that made it easy comprehend its teachings.
And his systematization of the doctrines of these other men resulted in a completely false doctrine.
Man is not so totally depraved that he cannot seek God, or find God, or turn to God without having already been saved by the Spirit.
There are several conditions that Scripture places on our salvation, so there is nothing unconditional about election.
Scripture is very clear that Jesus' death was for all men of all time everywhere, not limited to just those who will be redeemed.
God's grace is most certainly resistible, in that there are many who hear the Gospel and refuse to believe, accept, or obey it.
As for the perseverance of the saints, it is clear that God does support and provide for His sheep, but that He will not prevent them from leaving Him if they choose to turn back to unrepentant sin.
 
The Cause of Election by John Gill

These maxims are certainly true and indisputable: (1) That nothing in time can be the cause of what was done in eternity. To believe, to do good works, and persevere in them are acts in time, and so cannot be causes of election, which was done in eternity. And (2) That nothing out of God can be the cause of any decree or will in him. He is no passive Being, to be wrought upon by motives and inducements outside of himself. If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him, and his will must become dependent on that; which to say of God is to speak very unworthily of him. God wills things because it so pleases him. Predestination is according to the good pleasure of his will. Election is according to his foreknowledge, which is no other than his free favor and good will to men (Eph.1:5; 1 Pet. 1:2). No other reason can be given of God's will or decree to bestow grace and glory on men, for his own glory, and of his actual donation of them, but what our Lord gives: "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in thy sight" (Matt. 11:25-26). 5
 
I didn't say he founded a religion. I said he was the founder of a FALSE DOCTRINE.
Sorry, you said doctrine not religion, my apology to you.

He may have started off as a believer in Christ, but he drifted off into some very bad theology when he stopped following the Scriptures and stared following other people's teachings as you mention below.
Calvin actually was raised in RCC.

And his systematization of the doctrines of these other men resulted in a completely false doctrine.
Calvin at times disagree with Augustine and even Martin Luther, even those he highly respected Luther for his work on the reformation of laboring to bring back proper worship and doctrine~even those they (both him and Calvin) brought some doctrines with them out of the great whore, that they never were 100% free of~infant baptism being one of them. No difference between us and them, we too will died not being 100% converted to the pure teachings of Jesus Christ, even though we may labor to be be so, it is part of our fallen nature, sad to say.

Man is not so totally depraved that he cannot seek God, or find God, or turn to God without having already been saved by the Spirit.
Sorry, this point must wait until later, but the scriptures will prove you so wrong on this doctrine.
There are several conditions that Scripture places on our salvation, so there is nothing unconditional about election.
This we can discuss now, and will, but let me finish will Romans 9 now to around verse 25, or so.
Scripture is very clear that Jesus' death was for all men of all time everywhere, not limited to just those who will be redeemed.
I'm sure we will cover all this very soon.
God's grace is most certainly resistible, in that there are many who hear the Gospel and refuse to believe, accept, or obey it.
As for the perseverance of the saints, it is clear that God does support and provide for His sheep, but that He will not prevent them from leaving Him if they choose to turn back to unrepentant sin.
Doug, I'm not a Calvinist in the sense in which folks label Calvinism. Consider:

The Truth as I understand the scriptures teachings on these points. The truth distinguishes between unconditional and conditional aspects of God’s salvation, dividing between God’s work and our duty.

First~Arminianism in its five points is totally rejected as unscriptural and blasphemous against the intentions and accomplishments of Christ.

Man is neither free nor able to cooperate with God for salvation (John 3:3; 8:43,47; 10:26; Rom 8:7-8 I Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1-3). God’s foreknowledge in election did not find any conditions met; it was of persons, not actions (Psalm 14:1-3; 53:1-3; Rom 8:29). Jesus Christ’s death accomplished salvation for His elect; it did not merely make it possible (Matt 1:21 Rom 5:10; Hebrews 9:15). The Holy Spirit’s work in applying salvation through regeneration is effectual and sure (John 3:8; Eph 1:19; Titus 3:5; I Pet 1:2). The elect cannot be lost nor separated from the purpose of God in salvation (John 6:38-39; Rom 8:28-39; II Timothy 2:16-19).

Calvinism may be accepted in its first three points as scriptural and according to the truth of the gospel as preached by brother Paul. Man’s nature is totally corrupt since Eden, rendering him without desire or ability to know or please God in any way for salvation. God’s election of some men to eternal life is based purely on the good pleasure of His will in spite of their foreseen evil rebellion. Jesus Christ died only for the elect, and He will not lose a single one of those that the Father gave Him to fully and finally redeem.

However, Calvinism errs with its point of Irresistable Grace, for they apply it to the gospel and conversion, which is farther than truth. They apply irresistible grace, or what they name the “effectual call,” to the preaching of the gospel in the case of all the elect. They believe that all the elect will hear and believe the gospel sometime during their lives and cannot be saved without these things. This is sacramental salvation, for unless the “priest” carries the grace of God’s gospel to the elect, they cannot be saved without it. They must therefore invent all sorts of alternative theories to cover the salvation of infants, idiots, heathen, the deaf and blind, etc. Of course, they rarely define what they mean by “saving faith,” or they would make it to loose, or limit the elect to just a very few. The typical Calvinist, even John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards, seldom differentiate clearly between regeneration and conversion. God’s grace is definitely irresistible when it comes to regeneration, but conversion by the gospel depends on preacher and hearer. The first of the acts is God’s work in salvation, and the second is the information and news concerning it for the comfort of the elect.

However, Calvinism errs with its point of Final Perseverance, for they end up with a fatalist doctrine of men incapable of backsliding. Persevering is man’s action. If God guarantees man’s perseverance, then he will continue in faith and good works without fail. This fatalistic doctrine, if logically followed, would render the New Testament epistles and the work of the ministry unnecessary.

If by final perseverance the Calvinist means God will not lose any of His elect, then why not call it preservation like the Bible?

God will preserve His saints so that not one will be lost and all make it safely to heaven, but He has not guaranteed their faithfulness.
 
The Cause of Election by John Gill

These maxims are certainly true and indisputable: (1) That nothing in time can be the cause of what was done in eternity. To believe, to do good works, and persevere in them are acts in time, and so cannot be causes of election, which was done in eternity.
They certainly can if it is knowledge of what was done in time upon which God based His election and predestination (Rom 8:29).
And (2) That nothing out of God can be the cause of any decree or will in him. He is no passive Being, to be wrought upon by motives and inducements outside of himself. If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him, and his will must become dependent on that; which to say of God is to speak very unworthily of him. God wills things because it so pleases him. Predestination is according to the good pleasure of his will. Election is according to his foreknowledge, which is no other than his free favor and good will to men (Eph.1:5; 1 Pet. 1:2). No other reason can be given of God's will or decree to bestow grace and glory on men, for his own glory, and of his actual donation of them, but what our Lord gives: "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in thy sight" (Matt. 11:25-26). 5
This is based on the false premise that "If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him". Nothing could be further from the truth. Was Abraham greater than God? No, but Abraham moved God (Gen 18:23-32, ). Was Moses greater than God? No, but Moses moved God (Exo 32:11-14). Were the Ninevites or Jonah greater than God? No, but they moved God (Jonah 3:10). God, like a good father, listens to His children and will give them what they ask. Granted, He knew before the beginning of the world what they would ask, and purposed to give them what they asked before they asked it, but that still means that He chose to give what was asked because it was asked of Him.
 
The Cause of Election by John Gill

These maxims are certainly true and indisputable: (1) That nothing in time can be the cause of what was done in eternity. To believe, to do good works, and persevere in them are acts in time, and so cannot be causes of election, which was done in eternity. And (2) That nothing out of God can be the cause of any decree or will in him. He is no passive Being, to be wrought upon by motives and inducements outside of himself. If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him, and his will must become dependent on that; which to say of God is to speak very unworthily of him. God wills things because it so pleases him. Predestination is according to the good pleasure of his will. Election is according to his foreknowledge, which is no other than his free favor and good will to men (Eph.1:5; 1 Pet. 1:2). No other reason can be given of God's will or decree to bestow grace and glory on men, for his own glory, and of his actual donation of them, but what our Lord gives: "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in thy sight" (Matt. 11:25-26). 5
Um election according to foreknowledge is not Calvinism

That is what old Arminians held
 
Um election according to foreknowledge is not Calvinism
Election is according to the foreknowledge of God per 1st Peter 1:2~the question is this~what did God foreknow that caused him to have an election of grace toward sinners? Based upon the overall teachings of the word of God it is this.....God knew that if he did not have an election of grace then no one would have ever been preserved but by this election of grace, not even the angels. So, God elected some angles and some among men. It is not that hard to see.
That is what old Arminians held
Wrong~they believe God's foreknowledge look down through the ages of time and saw who would love and trust him by their own power~ teaching that all men have an heart that can love and believe without him causing them to do so. They think Adam just stump his little toes when he sinned. They truly do not believe that man in the day he sinned became at once at enmity against God. They think that Adam once he sinned went out and wept bitterly knowing that he had sinned against his God, much like Peter did, so they so they believe and so they preach. But the scriptures tells a different story~the very second Adam sinned he lost the image of God and took on the image of the devil himself! He became not just one of God's emeries, (which is bad enough) but he became at enmity, or, at war with everything that represents who God is.

Tom, what is God's image that Adam lost, can you, or your friends answer this for me?

Is this not your gospel Tom that you preach? Of course it is.
 
They certainly can if it is knowledge of what was done in time upon which God based His election and predestination (Rom 8:29).

This is based on the false premise that "If his will is moved by anything outside of him, that must be superior to him". Nothing could be further from the truth. Was Abraham greater than God? No, but Abraham moved God (Gen 18:23-32, ). Was Moses greater than God? No, but Moses moved God (Exo 32:11-14). Were the Ninevites or Jonah greater than God? No, but they moved God (Jonah 3:10). God, like a good father, listens to His children and will give them what they ask. Granted, He knew before the beginning of the world what they would ask, and purposed to give them what they asked before they asked it, but that still means that He chose to give what was asked because it was asked of Him.
Your perspective of God is corrupt
 
Election is according to the foreknowledge of God per 1st Peter 1:2~the question is this~what did God foreknow that caused him to have an election of grace toward sinners? Based upon the overall teachings of the word of God it is this.....God knew that if he did not have an election of grace then no one would have ever been preserved but by this election of grace, not even the angels. So, God elected some angles and some among men. It is not that hard to see.

Wrong~they believe God's foreknowledge look down through the ages of time and saw who would love and trust him by their own power~ teaching that all men have an heart that can love and believe without him causing them to do so. They think Adam just stump his little toes when he sinned. They truly do not believe that man in the day he sinned became at once at enmity against God. They think that Adam once he sinned went out and wept bitterly knowing that he had sinned against his God, much like Peter did, so they so they believe and so they preach. But the scriptures tells a different story~the very second Adam sinned he lost the image of God and took on the image of the devil himself! He became not just one of God's emeries, (which is bad enough) but he became at enmity, or, at war with everything that represents who God is.

Tom, what is God's image that Adam lost, can you, or your friends answer this for me?

Is this not your gospel Tom that you preach? Of course it is.
sorry you do not know what you are talking about

No knowledgeable Arminian would claim that. That is the Calvinistic stereotype

and nowhere is God's foreknowledge described in such a manner

BTW You cannot show man became totally adverse to God after the fall.
 
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