Brakelite
Active member
Agree with most. Disagree that demons or fallen angels are immortal. They will also die, in the end be destroyed. That lake of fire is the same fire that cleanses the earth prior to being recreated. It destroys sinners and demons alike, including Satan. Satan of course will suffer longest. He is the one ultimately responsible for what we see around us in the conflict between good and evil, but even he will, in the end be utterly destroyed. Sin will never rise again. Not because we can't... Not because we've lost our free will... But because we will never again choose to.Do you believe that in order to understand the Bible properly, it requires abdicating your reasoning mind?
Besides the trinity, the doctrine of eternal suffering in hell, is one of the biggest IDOLS keeping people from Christ. I know it was for me for decades! Consider the following 9 reasons:
1. INCOMPATIBLE WITH AN ALL-LOVING GOD
This is the big one. In the end, for most people, an all-loving God should be distinguishable from pure evil. There cannot be an idea more purely evil than to distort any notion of love or justice with ECT, eternal conscious torment.
Death is merciful & loving, not ECT.
2. OT DOESN’T TEACH ECT BUT DEATH
God told Adam that sin will result in death @ GE 2:17. If ECT is true, it means God lied.
except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.GE 2:17 (NLT)
According to Peter, God does not want to prevent us from burning eternally but prevent us from death.
The Lord is not slow in fulfilling his promise, as some consider him to be slow, but he is patient toward you, not wanting anyone to be destroyed but for everyone to come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9
3. JUSTICE
There is nothing equal about temporary sin resulting in eternal punishment. A human hardly lives a century. Even the most wicked life cannot be equally punished by ECT.
Some make an Appeal to Ignorance, supposing the human mind cannot understand the concepts of love and justice when preceded by the word divine.
Jesus is a man and can understand it. Jesus says many and few blows – not infinite in Luke 12:48. This suggests proportional punishment for wrongdoing, a balance justice demands, not an infinite number of blows for everyone, regardless of their sin, which is ultimately the case for ECT.
In order for ECT to be true, it means God and Jesus both lied.
4. BETTER OFF WITHOUT JESUS?
Before Jesus, the understanding from the OT was sin results in death.
Behold, they will be like stubble, the fire will burn them up. They will not deliver themselves from the power of the flame.IS 47:14 (REV)They will go out and look on the dead bodies of the people who have transgressed against me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenchedIS 66:24 (REV)
It is the worm that does not die, not us! It is the fire that is burns endlessly, not people!
Say to them, ‘As I live,’ says Lord Yahweh, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but desire that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?’EZ 33:11 (REV)For I have told you often, and now tell you again in tears, that many walk as enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction.Phil 3:18-19
If anything Jesus said is taken to reveal ECT is true, it means most people would be better off if Jesus had not come. The Good News of Jesus Christ cannot be for most, the punishment for sin went from death to ECT!
5. 2nd DEATH:
Dead is most common way to describe unbelievers, not ECT.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have life in the age to come.John 3:16 (REV)
NOTE: John 3:16 does not say God sent his son to prevent ECT. Some make another Appeal to Ignorance, that “perish” or die means something mystical or spiritual, etc. This is either adding to God’s word or extreme eisegesis.
6. DEATH IS SUBSTITUTE FOR SIN, NOT ECT
There is not a single instance where sin is paid for with ECT. Every substitute for sin in Scripture is death.
If the penalty for sin is eternal burning, then Jesus did not pay the full price.
7. SATAN’S LIE, YOU WON’T NOT DIE
ECT embraces Satan’s 1st lie.
8. OUR PEACE IN PARADISE
How could we enjoy paradise knowing ECT for our loved ones? True, the Bible says tears will be wiped away not that our emotional responses will be altered in the knowledge that people we loved in life are being tormented without end.
In Scripture “forever and ever” means “until the end of the age.” It does not mean unending.
9. ETERNAL PUNISHMENT FOR DEMONS ONLY
Trinitarians go to technique to “support” their doctrine is what I call artificial synthesis, cherry picking verses and splicing them together. There is no verse that says unrepentant, evil humans are fated for ECT.
Then he will also say to the ones on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the fire in the age to come, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels.Mat 25:41 (REV)14 Then Death and Hades (the grave) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.Revelation 20:14 (ESV)
KJV Ezekiel 28:12-19
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
The whole universe will have become witnesses to the nature and results of sin. And its utter extermination, which in the beginning would have brought fear to angels and dishonor to God, will now vindicate His love and establish His honor before the universe of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law. Never will evil again be manifest. Says the word of God: "Affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. The law of God, which Satan has reproached as the yoke of bondage, will be honored as the law of liberty. A tested and proved creation will never again be turned from allegiance to Him whose character has been fully manifested before them as fathomless love and infinite wisdom.