Diserner
Well-known member
I do have to take breaks sometimes.
But this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.
Wages of Sin is Death NOT ECT
- Thread starter Wrangler
- Start date
I do have to take breaks sometimes.
But this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.
civic
Well-known member
My motto
Scripture, Truth and Jesus trumps human philosophy 24/7.I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Another >12 paragraph post. <sigh>
One might expect you to get tired always subsituting quality with quantity.
None of what you posted supports ECT. Punishment to the point of death (2nd death) is eternal. None of what you wrote addresses the OP.
Correct-we are all in various stages of growth and maturity-and we are destined to differ on some topics-but iron sharpens iron.My motto
I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came unto you, came not according to pre-eminence of word or of wisdom, declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and This One crucified.
Shalom brother.
civic
Well-known member
notice it didn't say the correct view of the atonement it said Christ crucified.
nothing else but Christ crucified.
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures- gospel 101- 1 Cor 15:3-8.
Thanks for quoting that passage as I'm wholeheartedly in 100% agreement.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Well-known member
Certainly depends on what a person thinks death means.
civic
Well-known member
In Jesus case it sure doesn't mean separation from the Father and the same with believers. To be absent from the body ( dead, death ) is to be present with the Lord. As Jesus breathed His last ( died ) He said into Thy hands I commit My spirit.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Well-known member
Yes, I agree, nothing is ever separated from God.
Satan is tormented IN the presence of the holy Lamb and his angels.
Even after he is cast into the Lake of Fire.
civic
Well-known member
No Gods presence is not in hell- its the absence of everything good, light, holiness and God. Darkness is the absence of light. Hell and the lake of fire is complete darkness and the Absence of God and Light. It is full of evil, wickedness, sin, darkness etc....
Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord
hope this helps !!!
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Diserner
Well-known member
You deny God's omnipresence?!
civic
Well-known member
Why do you deny this passage ?
Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord
Gods eternal wrath and punishment exists in the LOF, but not His presence as the passage clearly says. God is now everwhere even in sheol. But once it is thrown into the LOF His presence is removed from that final destination place for all eternity where they suffer punishment forever.
hope this helps !!!
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Diserner
Well-known member
Because your English translation does not correctly render the Greek.
You quote an inaccurate translation.
There is no Greek word there corresponding to "away," it is completely made up and inserted.
The punishment and destruction come FROM the face of the Lord (literal translation) and the glory of his power:
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (2 Thess. 1:9 NKJ)
Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay--age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might-- (2 Thess. 1:9 ROT)
civic
Well-known member
wrong apo is in the original greek
οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ Κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ,
apo: from, away from
Original Word: ἀπό
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: apo
Phonetic Spelling: (apo')
Definition: from, away from
Usage: from, away from.
English Standard Version
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
New American Standard Bible
These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
And I suppose you know Greek better than DR Wallace below right ?
NET Bible
They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,
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Wrangler
Well-known member
It's defined. It means end, specifically, end of life.
We know some invent some mystical meaning that has no basis in objective use of terms.
Diserner
Well-known member
Diserner
Well-known member
And it means "from."
Away is added in by translators when they think the context of "from" might include it.
civic
Well-known member
no it means away from like I posted with several translations and from the lexicon.
it can also mean from but in this case the translators above have it correct as does the Greek expert Dr Daniel Wallace.
maybe you could translate the original Greek and have your own " private interpretation " version of the New Testament.
you seem to know more than all the 100's of Greek experts/translators with the ESV/NASB/ NetBible and Dr. Wallace.
hope this helps !!!
