Wages of Sin is Death NOT ECT

[Dizerner]

Feeling kind of "punch-drunk" from all the blows-

You?

I do have to take breaks sometimes.

But this little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine.

 

[civic]

Feeling kind of "punch-drunk" from all the blows-

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

You?

My motto Scripture, Truth and Jesus trumps human philosophy 24/7.

I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

Again-I read my Bible and believe eternal MEANS eternal.

Another >12 paragraph post. <sigh>

One might expect you to get tired always subsituting quality with quantity.

None of what you posted supports ECT. Punishment to the point of death (2nd death) is eternal. None of what you wrote addresses the OP.

 

[Johann]

My motto Scripture, Truth and Jesus trumps human philosophy 24/7.

I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Correct-we are all in various stages of growth and maturity-and we are destined to differ on some topics-but iron sharpens iron.

1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came unto you, came not according to pre-eminence of word or of wisdom, declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and This One crucified.

Shalom brother.

 

[civic]

Correct-we are all in various stages of growth and maturity-and we are destined to differ on some topics-but iron sharpens iron.

1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came unto you, came not according to pre-eminence of word or of wisdom, declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and This One crucified.

Shalom brother.

notice it didn't say the correct view of the atonement it said Christ crucified.

nothing else but Christ crucified.

Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures- gospel 101- 1 Cor 15:3-8.

Thanks for quoting that passage as I'm wholeheartedly in 100% agreement.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

Thanks for quoting that passage as I'm wholeheartedly in 100% agreement.

Certainly depends on what a person thinks death means.

 

[civic]

Certainly depends on what a person thinks death means.

In Jesus case it sure doesn't mean separation from the Father and the same with believers. To be absent from the body ( dead, death ) is to be present with the Lord. As Jesus breathed His last ( died ) He said into Thy hands I commit My spirit.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

In Jesus case it sure doesn't mean separation from the Father and the same with believers. To be absent from the body ( dead, death ) is to be present with the Lord. As Jesus breathed His last ( died ) He said into Thy hands I commit My spirit.

Yes, I agree, nothing is ever separated from God.

Satan is tormented IN the presence of the holy Lamb and his angels.

Even after he is cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[civic]

Yes, I agree, nothing is ever separated from God.

Satan is tormented IN the presence of the holy Lamb and his angels.

Even after he is cast into the Lake of Fire.

No Gods presence is not in hell- its the absence of everything good, light, holiness and God. Darkness is the absence of light. Hell and the lake of fire is complete darkness and the Absence of God and Light. It is full of evil, wickedness, sin, darkness etc....


Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

No Gods presence is not in hell- its the absence of everything good, light and God.

You deny God's omnipresence?!

 

[civic]

You deny God's omnipresence?!

Why do you deny this passage ?

Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

Gods eternal wrath and punishment exists in the LOF, but not His presence as the passage clearly says. God is now everwhere even in sheol. But once it is thrown into the LOF His presence is removed from that final destination place for all eternity where they suffer punishment forever.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

Why do you deny this passage ?

Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

Because your English translation does not correctly render the Greek.

You quote an inaccurate translation.

There is no Greek word there corresponding to "away," it is completely made up and inserted.

The punishment and destruction come FROM the face of the Lord (literal translation) and the glory of his power:

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (2 Thess. 1:9 NKJ)

Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay--age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might-- (2 Thess. 1:9 ROT)

 

[Dizerner]

If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. (Ps. 139:8 NKJ)

Why do you deny this Scripture?

 

[civic]

Because your English translation does not correctly render the Greek.

You quote an inaccurate translation.

There is no Greek word there corresponding to "away," it is completely made up and inserted.

The punishment and destruction come FROM the face of the Lord (literal translation) and the glory of his power:

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (2 Thess. 1:9 NKJ)

Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay--age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might-- (2 Thess. 1:9 ROT)

wrong apo is in the original greek

οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ Κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ,

apo: from, away from
Original Word: ἀπό
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: apo
Phonetic Spelling: (apo')
Definition: from, away from
Usage: from, away from.

English Standard Version
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

New American Standard Bible
These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

And I suppose you know Greek better than DR Wallace below right ?

NET Bible
They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

 

[Wrangler]

Certainly depends on what a person thinks death means.

It's defined. It means end, specifically, end of life.

We know some invent some mystical meaning that has no basis in objective use of terms.

 

[Dizerner]

It's defined. It means end, specifically, end of life.

We know some invent some mystical meaning that has no basis in objective use of terms.

Like "second" death?

Wonder what wacko thought THAT up.

 

[Dizerner]

wrong apo is in the original greek

And it means "from."

Away is added in by translators when they think the context of "from" might include it.

 

[civic]

And it means "from."

Away is added in by translators when they think the context of "from" might include it.

no it means away from like I posted with several translations and from the lexicon.

it can also mean from but in this case the translators above have it correct as does the Greek expert Dr Daniel Wallace.

maybe you could translate the original Greek and have your own " private interpretation " version of the New Testament.

you seem to know more than all the 100's of Greek experts/translators with the ESV/NASB/ NetBible and Dr. Wallace.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

And several other good translations have is as "separated " from. which fits perfectly with away from. I counted 10 other additional and reliable translations that affirmed the word is away/separated from.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Dizerner]

you seem to know more than all the 100's of Greek experts/translators with the ESV/NASB/ NetBible and Dr. Wallace.

Nice straw man.

Great way to argue.

Take your dishonesty with you.