Do you know the real Jesus?

TomL said:
Funny as it stands for two thousand years.,

BTW scripture refutes your active force belief.

Can you insult, lie to an inactive force?

Does it hear and speak?

You have let the Watchtower think for you.
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Yes they stand until babylon the great falls= real soon.
 
Runningman said:
The Word is God with God? Explain that please.
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GINOLJC, to all.
One more time. watch the term "WITH". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." Runningman examine this verse carefully. the LORD is the FIRST ...... and with, with, with, the LAST. sound like two person....... but notice he said I, I, I, I, am he. I is a single person designation. but the term "WITH" seems to indicate two persons correct? WRONG and here's why. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." then the same person that said he is the FIRST and "WITH" the LAST is the same ONE PERSON who is the First and the Last just as the bible says. this is too easy not to understand. for "ALSO." means "in addition too". so this ONE PERSON "FIRST" in addition to him being the First he is "ALSO" the Last.

listen, Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Runningman, tell us is the First and the Last, as well as the Word with God.... based on the information above, is this the same one person? ... again, based on the information above can you honestly say this is the same ONE PERSON yes or no?

101G.
 
101G said:
GINOLJC, to all.
One more time. watch the term "WITH". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." Runningman examine this verse carefully. the LORD is the FIRST ...... and with, with, with, the LAST. sound like two person....... but notice he said I, I, I, I, am he. I is a single person designation. but the term "WITH" seems to indicate two persons correct? WRONG and here's why. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." then the same person that said he is the FIRST and "WITH" the LAST is the same ONE PERSON who is the First and the Last just as the bible says. this is too easy not to understand. for "ALSO." means "in addition too". so this ONE PERSON "FIRST" in addition to him being the First he is "ALSO" the Last.

listen, Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Runningman, tell us is the First and the Last, as well as the Word with God.... based on the information above, is this the same one person? ... again, based on the information above can you honestly say this is the same ONE PERSON yes or no?

101G.
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No. First and last refers to a beginning and ending point which in and of itself is a limiting way to describe deity. This phrase is not a reference to deity, but rather a reference to category. To further prove this, you must take on the position that God died which exposes the error of your thought process. God is the first and the last, Revelation 1:17,18 says the first and the last died, therefore God died. To take one from your book, that is an ⚠️ERROR⚠️ because "first and last" refers to category or class. This is a commonly accepted theological workaround for this that many agree with in commentary.

Revelation 1 (NIV)
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
 
Runningman said:
No. First and last refers to a beginning and ending point which in and of itself is a limiting way to describe deity. This phrase is not a reference to deity, but rather a reference to category. To further prove this, you must take on the position that God died which exposes the error of your thought process. God is the first and the last, Revelation 1:17,18 says the first and the last died, therefore God died. To take one from your book, that is an ⚠️ERROR⚠️because "first and last" refers to category or class. This is a commonly accepted theological workaround for this that many agree with in commentary.

Revelation 1 (NIV)
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
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I am Alpha and Omega These are the first and the last letters of the Greek alphabet, and denote properly the first and the last. So in <Revelation 22:13>, where the two expressions are united, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." So in <Revelation 1:17>, the speaker says of himself, "I am the first and the last." Among the Jewish rabbis it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end. Thus, it is said, "Adam transgressed the whole law, from ‘Aleph (’) to Taw (t)." "Abraham kept the whole law, from ‘Aleph (’) to Taw (t)." The language here is what would properly denote "eternity" in the being to whom it is applied, and could be used in reference to no one but the true God. It means that he is the beginning and the end of all things; that he was at the commencement, and will be at the close; and it is thus equivalent to saying that he has always existed, and that he will always exist. Compare <Isaiah 41:4>, "I the Lord, the first, and with the last"; <Isaiah 44:6>, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"; <Isaiah 48:12>, "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." There can be no doubt that the language here would be naturally understood as implying divinity, and it could be properly applied to no one but the true God. The obvious interpretation here would be to apply this to the Lord Jesus; for:

(a) it is he who is spoken of in the verses preceding, and

(b) there can be no doubt that the same language is applied to him in <Revelation 1:11>. As there is, however, a difference of reading in this place in the Greek text, and as it can. not be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here, this cannot be adduced with propriety as a proof-text to demonstrate his divinity. Many MSS., instead of "Lord," kurios (grk 2962), read "God," Theos (grk 2316) and this reading is adopted by Griesbach, Tittman, and Hahn, and is now regarded as the correct reading. There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such, since the introduction of a reference to him would not be inappropriate to his manifest design. Besides, a portion of the language used here, "which is, and was, and is to come," is what would more naturally suggest a reference to God as such, than to the Lord Jesus Christ. See <Revelation 1:4>. The object for which this passage referring to the "first and the last — to him who was, and is, and is to come," is introduced here evidently is, to show that as he was clothed with omnipotence, and would continue to exist through all ages to come as he had existed in all ages past, there could be no doubt about his ability to execute all which it is said he would execute. Saith the Lord Or, saith God, according to what is now regarded as the correct reading.ÿ Which is, and which was, … See the notes on <Revelation 1:4>. The Almighty An appellation often applied to God, meaning that he has all power, and used here to denote that he is able to accomplish what is disclosed in this book. (from Barnes’ Notes)

BTW its application to Christ rebuts your denial of his pre-existence
 
TomL said:
I am Alpha and Omega These are the first and the last letters of the Greek alphabet, and denote properly the first and the last. So in <Revelation 22:13>, where the two expressions are united, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." So in <Revelation 1:17>, the speaker says of himself, "I am the first and the last." Among the Jewish rabbis it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end. Thus, it is said, "Adam transgressed the whole law, from ‘Aleph (’) to Taw (t)." "Abraham kept the whole law, from ‘Aleph (’) to Taw (t)." The language here is what would properly denote "eternity" in the being to whom it is applied, and could be used in reference to no one but the true God. It means that he is the beginning and the end of all things; that he was at the commencement, and will be at the close; and it is thus equivalent to saying that he has always existed, and that he will always exist. Compare <Isaiah 41:4>, "I the Lord, the first, and with the last"; <Isaiah 44:6>, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"; <Isaiah 48:12>, "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." There can be no doubt that the language here would be naturally understood as implying divinity, and it could be properly applied to no one but the true God. The obvious interpretation here would be to apply this to the Lord Jesus; for:

(a) it is he who is spoken of in the verses preceding, and

(b) there can be no doubt that the same language is applied to him in <Revelation 1:11>. As there is, however, a difference of reading in this place in the Greek text, and as it can. not be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here, this cannot be adduced with propriety as a proof-text to demonstrate his divinity. Many MSS., instead of "Lord," kurios (grk 2962), read "God," Theos (grk 2316) and this reading is adopted by Griesbach, Tittman, and Hahn, and is now regarded as the correct reading. There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such, since the introduction of a reference to him would not be inappropriate to his manifest design. Besides, a portion of the language used here, "which is, and was, and is to come," is what would more naturally suggest a reference to God as such, than to the Lord Jesus Christ. See <Revelation 1:4>. The object for which this passage referring to the "first and the last — to him who was, and is, and is to come," is introduced here evidently is, to show that as he was clothed with omnipotence, and would continue to exist through all ages to come as he had existed in all ages past, there could be no doubt about his ability to execute all which it is said he would execute. Saith the Lord Or, saith God, according to what is now regarded as the correct reading.ÿ Which is, and which was, … See the notes on <Revelation 1:4>. The Almighty An appellation often applied to God, meaning that he has all power, and used here to denote that he is able to accomplish what is disclosed in this book. (from Barnes’ Notes)

BTW its application to Christ rebuts your denial of his pre-existence
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Let's take this step by step. Did God die? Yes or no.
 
101G said:
the first death in the ECHAD of the Last .... YES. ,,,,, (smile)..... :cool: YIKES!! no say it's not so....

101G
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So the First and the Last died. That means the immortal God died. Case closed for "diversified oneness." Any takers from the Trinity gallery?
 
Runningman said:
God doesn't have blood.
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GINOLJC, to ALL
this is why you're in IGNORANCE. Listen and Learn, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" 1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." WAS YOU REDEEMED FROM THE LAW BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB?

Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

But since you cannot understand, let's make it simple for you...... is not the Holy Spirit God? yes, listen and learn. Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

if you cannot comprehend this, then there is no need to reply.

101G.
 
101G said:
GINOLJC, to ALL
this is why you're in IGNORANCE. Listen and Learn, 1 Peter 1:19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:" 1 Peter 1:20 "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

Hebrews 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." WAS YOU REDEEMED FROM THE LAW BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB?

Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

But since you cannot understand, let's make it simple for you...... is not the Holy Spirit God? yes, listen and learn. Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

if you cannot comprehend this, then there is no need to reply.

101G.
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Then stop calling Jesus God. Jesus is a human. Do you believe that God was with Jesus or possessed Jesus like a vessel or avatar?
 
Runningman said:
Then stop calling Jesus God. Jesus is a human. Do you believe that God was with Jesus or possessed Jesus like a vessel or avatar?
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say what? " Do you believe that God was with Jesus or possessed Jesus like a vessel or avatar?" the Lord Jesus is God almighty. understand in an H259 ECHAD in Spirit.
let's see, "Who sits on the throne in heaven called the ALMIGHTY?" who by name please.

101G.
 
101G said:
say what? " Do you believe that God was with Jesus or possessed Jesus like a vessel or avatar?" the Lord Jesus is God almighty. understand in an H259 ECHAD in Spirit.
let's see, "Who sits on the throne in heaven called the ALMIGHTY?" who by name please.

101G.
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Jesus is the name given to a human. You think a human descended from Adam is God???
 

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