There seems to be reams and reams of comments going back and forth about one simple question. Jesus became 100% human at His Incarnation and will always be 100% human (in addition to His 100% Divinity). If not then we are not saved and in serious problems.Amen
Did Jesus Shed His Humanity at the Ascension?
- Thread starter Maurice
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
That is the bottom line. It’s a denial of the Incarnation and that Ge is no longer the son of man, our high priest, king, advocate , prophet and mediator. It denies every single human office required of those positions. Plus it makes God out to be a liar and His promises null and void. But most of all it takes away the gospel and turns it into a spell and not the gospel. It’s a travesty.
Diserner
Well-known member
No, I don't think it's core.
Grace is the real core, God doing for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
Paul just meant if there is no afterlife.
civic
Well-known member
The gospel is the message of grace, salvation and at its center is the resurrection. Paul said if Christ is not risen we are of most men most miserable, our faith is futile and we are still dead in our sins.
Both His Grace and His Ascension are intertwined at their most fundamental level. Let me explain. Because of Christ's Ascension, human nature is now in the very abode of the Father, the Heavenly Holy of Holies. And that transfigured nature is what we will inherit as believers, by His Grace, as part of our salvation. You see, there is no seperation between His Grace and His Ascension, nor can there be. They both intricately affect our salvation.
Diserner
Well-known member
But think about it.
If doctrinal sin can be forgiven—and most of it can—the one doctrine that matters the most is how sins are forgiven.
The unpardonable doctrines have to be those that deny the means and method of God's forgiveness—Christ's bearing our punishment is God's grace.
And this is why I fight so hard for it, though I am mocked and persecuted for it by those very ones claiming Christ's name.
Riches in heaven.
If doctrinal sin can be forgiven—and most of it can—the one doctrine that matters the most is how sins are forgiven.
The unpardonable doctrines have to be those that deny the means and method of God's forgiveness—Christ's bearing our punishment is God's grace.
And this is why I fight so hard for it, though I am mocked and persecuted for it by those very ones claiming Christ's name.
Riches in heaven.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
SO the story goes, in a heavy rain, in London, the dead animals would be washed along in the gutters. London must have been a lousy/smelly place to live in the "old days".
Not sure what you mean by doctrinal sins?
What is an unpardonable doctrine? It's our unbelief that obstructs God's forgiveness of our sins. Christ bearing our punishment as God's Grace is expiation. What's not part of expiation is an irate God needing to be appeased of his anger through the offering of an innocent sacrifice. That sounds too paganistic to me.
Again, propitiation sounds too paganistic to me.
You too, my friend.
civic
Well-known member
I would reword it to say not how they are forgiven but that they are forgiven throught the Atonement. Lets be real for just a moment. There are a minimum of at-least 7 different views/theories on the Atonement and a large number of combinations of those 7.
The the simple how answer if Jesus said His death provides the forgiveness of sins. he gave His life for them. Thats really all one needs to know. Paul made it real simple in the gospel by which we are saved in 1 Cor 15- He died for our sins according to the scriptures. He was buried and raised on the 3rd day according to the scriptures and then He appeared ( bodily ) to many over a 40 day period. And last of all ( years later( He appeared to me ( Paul ). Then he spends the rest of the chapter talking about the Resurrection.
So the Atonement at best is only 1/2 of the gospel. The other 1/2 is the Resurrection which gives life, power and victory over sin, death and the devil.
hope this helps !!!
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sethproton
Active member
i don't know. but you are so sure i am JW, it seemed logical to you because you are following someone
civic
Well-known member
That would be Jesus first and foremost followed by His Apostles. Paul said to imitate me as I imitate Christ.
sethproton
Active member
are you saved because Jesus became human or because He gave up that life?
civic
Well-known member
false dichotomy fallacy, its both.
sethproton
Active member
Praise God for that
sethproton
Active member
yes saved because He gave it up at the cross
civic
Well-known member
no Incarnation no salvation.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yes. I know what JWs teach. I try to stay informed.
sethproton
Active member
you thought I was sayng different?
Well then tell me what JW believe
1.What happened to His body at the cross.
2,Did something change with the ascensiion?
sethproton
Active member
No dichotomy. If he came and lived as a human there is no salavation in that; He had to die.
