Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?

[brightfame52]

Another scripture that more than indicates that God purposely created some men for destruction and wrath in the final day of Judgment is Rom 9:21-22

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Its revealed here that the Sovereign God has the absolute right to make, create, fashion, construct, to author and appoint men to destruction, dishonor or disgrace.

The word dishonour is the greek word atimia and means:

disgrace, dishonor; a dishonorable use.

Now the word disgrace, the english word means:

the loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame:
the disgrace of criminals.

Which coincides with what God says in Daniel regarding the reprobate raised in the last day Dan 12:2

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Now they were created by God on purpose to suffer eternal shame and contempt !

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus Himself in a Messianic Psalm 69 prays a prayer against the reprobate, the vessels of wrath He fits for destruction vs 21-28

21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Jesus Himself in a Messianic Psalm 69 prays a prayer against the reprobate, the vessels of wrath He fits for destruction vs 21-28

Of course. They chose to be that way after being given a chance

 

[brightfame52]

Of course. They chose to be that way after being given a chance

Should the church pray for the reprobate and seek their salvation ?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Should the church pray for the reprobate and seek their salvation ?

Paul prayed for people to be saved (Rom 10:1), so the idea that we shouldn’t pray for someone’s salvation just isn’t biblical.


And honestly, if someone is already eternally doomed with no possibility of salvation, then prayer would be a waste of breath — which says more about that theology than it does about prayer.


Scripture tells us to pray for all, not guess who God supposedly pre-rejected.


So yes — we pray. Period.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul prayed for people to be saved (Rom 10:1),

That would have been for the election of grace, the vessels of mercy. Paul would not have prayed for them to be saved he just wrote about being by God made vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction in Rom 9, he wasnt stupid

 

[Doug Brents]

Should the church pray for the reprobate and seek their salvation ?

Absolutely we should (Matt 5:44, 2 Tim 2:25, Eze 36:26).

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely we should (Matt 5:44, 2 Tim 2:25, Eze 36:26).

okay and ? Should the church pray for the salvation of people God created for destruction and wrath ?

 

[Doug Brents]

okay and ? Should the church pray for the salvation of people God created for destruction and wrath ?

Absolutely we should. We are commanded to pray for those who persecute us, pray that they be opened to the Truth (as I pray for you to be), pray that God remove the heart of stone, and give them a heart of flesh (making them part of the elect).

Your question betrays the falsehood of your beliefs. You see, God desires the salvation of everyone (2 Pet 3:9), and because we know that, we also know that He did NOT create some to be saved and some to be condemned. He created everyone with the ability to choose Him and be saved. But He also knows that not everyone will choose Him (because He knew the end from the beginning), so He chose to allow them to be condemned.

 

[brightfame52]

Absolutely we should.

That would be absolutely foolish and not according to the guidelines of praying according to the will of God 1 Jn 5:14

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

 

[brightfame52]

We are commanded to pray for those who persecute us,

okay, that person may be an elect vessel of mercy, like saul was when he persecuted believers 1 Cor 15 9

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Thats not praying for the reprobate God created for wrath and destruction.

 

[Doug Brents]

That would be absolutely foolish and not according to the guidelines of praying according to the will of God 1 Jn 5:14

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

That is a very narrow way of thinking that ignores so much of Scripture (specifically those passages I just cited). We know that God's will is for us to pray for everyone, including any pagan leaders of countries/states/counties/cities, etc. We are also to pray for our persecutors, our enemies, and those who have not yet submitted to God and accepted His Gospel. It is never foolishness to do as God has commanded us.

okay, that person may be an elect vessel of mercy, like saul was when he persecuted believers 1 Cor 15 9

For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Thats not praying for the reprobate God created for wrath and destruction.

Anyone could be saved, and anyone could be condemned. Saul could have refused to accept God's commission, continued to persecute the Church, and never become an Apostle of Christ. Judas could have repented and not killed Himself (Judas' sin was no worse than Peter's, and Peter was forgiven but Judas was not still alive to seek forgiveness).

It is ALWAYS good, and in fact is our duty, to pray for any and all who are sinful and that they will come to repentance and knowledge of the Truth. This is my prayer for you as well.