Doug Brents
Active Member
It is not the truth, so it doesn't matter how many times it has been said.
Not necessarily. If they repent, as all of us who are going to Heaven have, then they will join us in Heaven.
Did God Predestinate some to Hell/Wrath ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Active Member
Yes necessarily
Doug Brents
Active Member
Again, your opinion on that contradicts Scripture. So it is not worth the "paper" on which it is printed.
brightfame52
Active Member
Children of perdition. Do you pray for the son of perdition to be saved ? 2 Thess 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
What about judas could he have been saved Jn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Judas is the "son of perdition" in John 17:12, but he is not who is described in 2 Thes 2:3 (Judas had already been revealed long before 2 Thessalonians was written). "Son of perdition" is not a title, nor is it unique. It is a description of people who are lost. Judas was lost because he did not repent. He could have been saved, if he had held on and repented as Peter did. But Jesus, knowing through the Spirit that Judas would not repent knew that Judas was lost even before His death.
Yes, I pray constantly for lost souls, that they come to repentance, because that is what God has called us to do. And then I preach the Gospel to them so that they know what repentance means, and how to come to be saved.
brightfame52
Active Member
@Doug Brents
Would you pray for their salvation ? Is it Gods will for the son of perdition to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Is Christ the Mediator for the man of sin and did He give himself a ransom for the son of perdition and judas ?
Would you pray for their salvation ? Is it Gods will for the son of perdition to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Is Christ the Mediator for the man of sin and did He give himself a ransom for the son of perdition and judas ?
Doug Brents
Active Member
1 Tim 2:1
"First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercession, and thanksgiving be made in behalf of all people,"
Yes, He did give Himself as a ransom for ALL MEN (mankind). This is not limited by ANYTHING (other than your prejudice).
brightfame52
Active Member
False teaching
Doug Brents
Active Member
It is what Scripture says, clearly and explicitly. YOU are the one promoting a false teaching.
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats a false message. God doesnt desire or will the salvation of the vessels of wrath He created, He desires and wills their eternal destruction for sin. Rom 9 22
No it is not. Not properly presented, but not false teaching. Jesus was given as a ransom for all men. However, that is not what saves men. It just means that Jesus died for everyone. That's it... for that part. The important part is that only those who believe in Christ by faith are saved. All you have to do is tack on that only those God has chosen will believe by faith. Jesus death is universal, SALVATION is not. It's a crazy fine line separating the two ideas.
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brightfame52
Active Member
More false teaching
Okay, I think this deserves an explanation. Can you explain how it is that those who believe in Christ by faith are damned? (Since you just said that saying that people who believe in Christ by faith are saved is a false teaching.)
All I said is that Jesus death is universal, that is, it is sufficient to save all. It is capable. Then I said that the important part is, however, that ONLY those who believe in Christ by faith are saved by His death. And I fully believe that that is only the elect whom God chose before the foundation of the world. Please explain why you believe Calvinistic beliefs (as the relate to TULIP, while not being TULIP) are heresies.
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brightfame52
Active Member
Never said that. More deception
You say that I trust the flesh, give false teaching. If I as a teacher, then It each salvation in Christ by faith. So if you say I am a false teacher, then, once again, do the math.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You have a very perverted sense of what God desires and wills. He told us that He doesn't will that anyone should perish (spend eternity in Hell), but that everyone should come to repentance. There is NO restriction on anyone and everyone. Both of them are all-inclusive. You think you know better than God? Hmmm? It is not that God made them for destruction, but that He allows them to condemn themselves through their sin. He only saves those who come to Him with a humble heart.
Rom 9:22 is a "what if..." statement. It is not stating that God DID make people that way. It is asking the question, "what if" God did that. Would God be evil because He made some for eternal condemnation? No. He would not. But that is not saying that He did so.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
WHY WOULD I PRAY FOR THE ANTICHRIST? WHY WOULD I PRAY FOR JUDAS?
The "son of perdition" is a term used in the New Testament, specifically referring to Judas Iscariot in John 17:12, where Jesus states that none of his disciples were lost except him. Additionally, in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the term is associated with a figure known as the "man of sin," often interpreted as a symbol of ultimate evil or lawlessness.
The title “son of perdition” is used twice in the New Testament, first in John 17:12 and again in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The phrase simply means “man doomed to destruction” and is not reserved for any one individual. In fact, there are two people to which the title “son of perdition” is applied. In context, John 17:12 is referring to Judas Iscariot, while 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is referring to the “man of lawlessness”—the Antichrist—who will appear in the end times before Christ’s return.
A good picture of a person who is a “son of perdition” appears in Hebrews 6:4–8, which describes a person who, like Judas, has experienced a certain closeness to God and has a good understanding of salvation, but then denies it. Instead of bearing good fruit, he bears “thorns and thistles.” This is a person who sees the path to salvation, which is trusting in God’s grace to cover sin (Ephesians 2:8–9), and instead either flatly denies the existence of God or denies God’s gift of salvation, preferring to pay his own debt. Judas chose the second path, punishing himself by suicide instead of accepting grace.
However, Judas and the Antichrist are extreme cases. It is never right for a human being to label another person a “son of perdition” because only God knows the ultimate future of each human soul. Only with these two individuals did God choose to reveal His plan for their eternal damnation. With every other person, no matter how lost or evil he may seem, we are to hope and pray for his redemption (1 Timothy 2:1). GOT QUESTIONS https://www.gotquestions.org/son-of-perdition.html
And Judas is the prime example of someone who knew all about it and turned His back on God. HE MADE HIS CHOICE.
brightfame52
Active Member
More deception and you do the math
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 9 22 tells us what God willed, vessels of wrath and fits them for destruction
brightfame52
Active Member
You said Christ died for all, judas and antichrist are part of the all
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