Did God, forsake Jesus on the cross?

[MatthewG]

@synergy inwas wrong about that verse being in Psalms it was in Isaiah. You may have knew that though.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief. When thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet the LORD was willing To crush Him, causing Him to suffer; If He would give Himself as a guilt offering [an atonement for sin], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, And the will (good pleasure) of the LORD shall succeed and prosper in His hand.

 

[MatthewG]

@synergy inwas wrong about that verse being in Psalms it was in Isaiah. You may have knew that though.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief. When thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet the LORD was willing To crush Him, causing Him to suffer; If He would give Himself as a guilt offering [an atonement for sin], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, And the will (good pleasure) of the LORD shall succeed and prosper in His hand.

 

[civic]

Otherwise Jesus is lying about God forsaking him, with his fulfillment of Psalm 22:1. So was David or whoever wrote it.

its not a lie if its a declaration and not literal. the psalmist in psalm 22 felt forsaken yet he was not forsaken. he felt alone yet God heard his prayers and did not leave him alone as verse 24 says.

one one may feel may not be true. I can feel as if God is not hearing me yet God does hear me when I cry out in my prayers, sufferings, times of lonliness etc......

even if I say it was not a declaration and Jesus really felt like He was forsaken doesn't mean He was forsaken. I can feel like God is not listening to my prayers because He is silent but that does not mean He is not there with me just because I feel like I'm alone.

It Jesus felt forsaken it doesn't mean He was.

Jesus did not know the day/hour of His return- does that make Him not God ?

not knowing something and feeling something does not make it mean Jesus was not God or that God can be separated from God which is an oxymoron. Jesus as a man might of felt alone as He was suffering for our sins and bearing them. That doesn't mean He was alone since plenty of Scriptures say that God was with Him and heard His prayers.

 

[MatthewG]

Guess it depends on if you take it literally or not.

I believe it was the literal fulfillment of Jesus taking on sin, and God couldn’t reside in that body anymore.

Why don’t you talk to me about these things? You read what I say but don’t comment on these things an go on a different route. That’s fine, but I’m standing on what Jesus said… which was literal…

Or a lie… or maybe he was just happy singing songs… I don’t try to play feelings in to what Jesus says…

Jesus was direct and clear what you assume of it is your choice @civic,

My God My God why have you forsaken me?

 

[MatthewG]

Im very against anyone trying to play any feelings in to anything really which has to do with the Bible… We don’t go by what we feel. We go by the Spirit, and love God and love others.

What people take out of Jesus words “my God my God why have you forsaken me” is their own choice…

@civic

The conclusion of the abandoning (leaving), the fleshly body of Jesus which Christ indwell, whom was God, couldn’t reside in the body of sin, and he fully took on the Law, which ended in the death of Jesus for all people sins to be paid for.

You can either accept that or reject it, cause I don’t hear you speaking on that matter very much, and may God give the increase.

I’m a dried up, haystack rolling in the desert wind.

 

[synergy]

I’m good. Can you write a summary? I barely want to read what civic shared.

The key to understanding what's going on is to be aware of when Jesus cried out his words. It's at the end of his Crucifixion, at the ninth hour.

Mat 27:45 And from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?

So if God had forsaken Christ (darkened the Earth) at Noon (6th hour) then why did it take Christ 3 hours to realize that forsakenness and only then did he ask why he was "forsaken"? Three hours!

Also, notice that almost immediately after Jesus cried out those words that God the Father brightened the day and shortly after Christ gave up his spirit, proclaiming that it's FINISHED! Those who believe in forsakenness can only explain the timing of Christ's cry as Christ prompting the Father so that his forsakenness state can be immediately stopped, as if the Father is totally oblivious and detached from everything that's happening. That's ridiculous.

 

[MatthewG]

The key to understanding what's going on is to be aware of when Jesus cried out his words. It's at the end of his Crucifixion, at the ninth hour.

Mat 27:45 And from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?

So if God had forsaken Christ (darkened the Earth) at Noon then why did it take Christ 3 hours to realize that forsakenness and only then did he ask why he was "forsaken"? Three hours!

Also, notice that almost immediately after Jesus cried out those words that God the Father brightened the day and shortly after Christ gave up his spirit, proclaiming that it's FINISHED! Those who believe in forsakenness can only explain Christ's cry as Christ waking up the Father so that his forsakenness state can be stopped. That's ridiculous.

It’s also important to go by the Spirit. It was Jesus who had the power to lay down his own life, and therefore when God left his body can’t say for sure, all we know is that God forsake him, and left him on the cross.

This doesn’t mean that God seen His Son as not his Son… or that God forgot about him and didn’t raise him up again… or that God was mad at his Son.

It’s also a showing of the humanity of Jesus facing the consequences of the world and sin, in which the contact with the Father at first was intimate, however now was separated.

By sin, there is a whole lesson here that could be taught… on Jesus asking Why. And Why did God forsake him?

Why did God forsake him? There is a reason why…

 

[MatthewG]

You can see the definition provided in the original
Post concerning in the phrase.

have you forsaken
ἐγκατέλιπες (enkatelipes)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 2nd Person Singular
Strong's 1459: From en and kataleipo; to leave behind in some place, i.e. let remain over, or to desert.

 

[MatthewG]

The key to understanding what's going on is to be aware of when Jesus cried out his words. It's at the end of his Crucifixion, at the ninth hour.

Mat 27:45 And from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?

So if God had forsaken Christ (darkened the Earth) at Noon (6th hour) then why did it take Christ 3 hours to realize that forsakenness and only then did he ask why he was "forsaken"? Three hours!

Also, notice that almost immediately after Jesus cried out those words that God the Father brightened the day and shortly after Christ gave up his spirit, proclaiming that it's FINISHED! Those who believe in forsakenness can only explain the timing of Christ's cry as Christ prompting the Father so that his forsakenness state can be immediately stopped, as if the Father is totally oblivious and detached from everything that's happening. That's ridiculous.

Thank you for sharing. What was the reason for all this going down? Why have it all happen this way? Does it affect our salvation? Is there a lesson to be learned spiritually maturing us up? Was it all part of Gods plan?

 

[MatthewG]

God forsaking Jesus, just sound impossible for some. They say, oh he felt that way, or some other reasoning…

Never believe them, go and read the Bible and find out what is going on, concerning the narratives and contents and context. Write down what you see, and try to see what you can be able to see by and through the Spirit!

God won’t never steer anyone wrong, but man will. That includes me, myself.

 

[civic]

Im very against anyone trying to play any feelings in to anything really which has to do with the Bible… We don’t go by what we feel. We go by the Spirit, and love God and love others.

What people take out of Jesus words “my God my God why have you forsaken me” is their own choice…

@civic

The conclusion of the abandoning (leaving), the fleshly body of Jesus which Christ indwell, whom was God, couldn’t reside in the body of sin, and he fully took on the Law, which ended in the death of Jesus for all people sins to be paid for.

You can either accept that or reject it, cause I don’t hear you speaking on that matter very much, and may God give the increase.

I’m a dried up, haystack rolling in the desert wind.

Jesus took on our sins and condemned them in the flesh which provided our forgiveness. That in no way shape or form has any connection with God not being able to look at sin , be near sin, having sin in His presence etc…. God has always pursued sinners, talked with them , walked with them , wrestled with them and has relationships with them since Genesis and the fall. So that’s just another misnomer about God and sin, sinners. Jesus loved them, ate with them , fellowships with them and died for them. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Gods love us the key to understanding the above truth contained in scripture.

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

It’s also important to go by the Spirit. It was Jesus who had the power to lay down his own life, and therefore when God left his body can’t say for sure, all we know is that God forsake him, and left him on the cross.

The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

(Eph 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God,

This doesn’t mean that God seen His Son as not his Son… or that God forgot about him and didn’t raise him up again… or that God was mad at his Son.

It’s also a showing of the humanity of Jesus facing the consequences of the world and sin, in which the contact with the Father at first was intimate, however now was separated.

By sin, there is a whole lesson here that could be taught… on Jesus asking Why. And Why did God forsake him?

Why did God forsake him? There is a reason why…

You can only believe that God forsook Christ only if 1) you believe that it took Christ 3 hours to realize his forsakenness and 2) you believe that the Father was detached/oblivious and had to be prompted by Christ to end his forsakenness state.

 

[synergy]

Thank you for sharing. What was the reason for all this going down? Why have it all happen this way?

We can understand only as far as Christ has revealed God's plan as recorded in the Bible.

Does it affect our salvation? Is there a lesson to be learned spiritually maturing us up? Was it all part of Gods plan?

@civic has excellent material on how God loves us and will never forsake us.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus took on our sins and condemned them in the flesh which provided our forgiveness.

Have you seen me say something to the contrary? We have been talking about Jesus, and his fulfilment of Psalm 22:1.

That in no way shape or form has any connection with God not being able to look at sin , be near sin, having sin in His presence etc….

God is not able to indwell sin. God can not produce sin. God sent Adam and Eve out of the Garden because of sin.

Sin has now been taken care of, and now God is able to indwell everyone. Before the only one who had the Spirit of God with them the whole time was Jesus, until sin entered into him... Christ then moved out, forsaking him to his fate, of his desire to achieve the will which God had sent him to do in order for God's will to be done, in getting rid of sin altogether. Except for the unbelieving, person who desires nothing to do with God, though they are reconciled to him, the sin of disbelief, keeps them from resting in him and having peace through the Lord Jesus.

God has always pursued sinners, talked with them , walked with them , wrestled with them and has relationships with them since Genesis and the fall.

Have you heard me say something to the contrary? Why bring this up on this subject exactly? The subject remember is God forsaking Jesus, on the cross.

So that’s just another misnomer about God and sin, sinners.

Not so sure that what you are saying is really true. Now today, sin has been taken care of, and God is able to indwell people by his spirit because of the Lord Jesus, nailed the ordinances of the old commandments to the cross, in order to become sin for all of us, being raised again for justification of validation of that old law being done away with now today.

Jesus loved them, ate with them , fellowships with them and died for them. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Yeah we are, however God sees all people clean now, and desires for people to come to him, by calling by the spirit and the bride all of Gods glory is seen by and through creation, because his creation speaks of the glory, of God, and the Lord Jesus.

Gods love us the key to understanding the above truth contained in scripture.

No one said, that God hated his son. God forgot about his son. God failed in his promises. The subject is pertaining to Jesus, and his payment of sin, which God forsook him. Even for a moment of time. That is love, to die, with hope and faith that your God, will raise you up, even though right now you are forsaken by him through this payment of sin which you choose to endure for the sake of "you", and the "world" at large and for the sake of "God's will" being done.

We follow the same pattern as Jesus, to go to the cross, die to ourself, bury the old man, and raise to newness of life by Gods spirit. God continued on after this event, it was just this event we are specifically talking about for the "moment of time" as we talk about it.

hope this helps !!!

The Word of God is the sword of the Spirit.

(Eph 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God,

You can only believe that God forsook Christ only if 1) you believe that it took Christ 3 hours to realize his forsakenness and 2) you believe that the Father was detached/oblivious and had to be prompted by Christ to end his forsakenness state.

We have been using the bible, and talking about Jesus, and his fulfilling statement of Psalm 22:1. I can believe that God forsake, the Lord Jesus, because Jesus is speaking it to be so. There was a reason that "Christ" in Jesus, left him. It was in order for the body which was given by Jesus, would be put to death. If the "Christ" in Jesus never did leave him, then Jesus would not have died. He would have continued to live, however due to Jesus willinglyness to give up his body, he did so, in with that of the "Christ" in him, leaving.

How can we know that God was in Christ?

2 Corinthians 5:19

​

19 I mean that God was in Christ, making peace between the world and himself. In Christ, God did not hold people guilty for their sins. And he gave us this message of peace to tell people.​

Why could not God remain with Jesus, and why was it is that God left him there?
Jesus is clearly, speaking it into fulfillment, in which was always of what the Father taught him, him to say. Did that Father also tell him that he was leaving now, and thus this Cry was out to Him, of "Why have you forsaken me." Which was only for a moment of time. According to what I have been going through and studying with you, and everyone else.

It's understandable if you may have a different telling, that someone like myself may have, and I can accept if you reject anything read here, because I really am not trying to win any arguments or try to fight against anyone here, as I respect everyone here and consider you a friend, vicariously through Christ.

We can understand only as far as Christ has revealed God's plan as recorded in the Bible.

@civic has excellent material on how God loves us and will never forsake us.

Synergy, didn't God give Jesus a revelation, when he had John to write Revelation? I love my brother @civic, and I love you as my brother. I have not been talking about God forsaking you, or anyone else. I have been plainly speaking about Jesus.

 

[john]

People miss things cause of traditions of man. God left him on the cross because sin entered into his body.

How could Gid reside in that body now with sin?

He could not therefore leaves Jesus.

And Jesus still having faith and trust in God asks why have you forsaken me? He left. Leaving Jesus there without the anointing which was God in Christ.

up till the cross it was his father at the cross it was my G

 

[john]

Where do you get that this subject has to do with that theology?

Don’t they teach that God punished his son by his wrath on the son?

That’s horrible! And untrue.

Christ was the ultimate sacrifice what else would you call it ? a vacation Christ took the penalty of sin for us . i dont know as if i would call it a punishment . there had be a penalty for sin you think of it the ashes on his back to the point gashing cuts .probably so deep his organs was exposed.. the nails in his hands and feet the crown of thorns on his head,, the sitting of the cross was a sudden jar. do you honestly think God was cheering them on. like a trainer in the ufc

 

[MatthewG]

Christ was the ultimate sacrifice what else would you call it ? a vacation Christ took the penalty of sin for us . i dont know as if i would call it a punishment . there had be a penalty for sin you think of it the ashes on his back to the point gashing cuts .probably so deep his organs was exposed.. the nails in his hands and feet the crown of thorns on his head,, the sitting of the cross was a sudden jar. do you honestly think God was cheering them on. like a trainer in the ufc

The thing is, it was not Jesus who sinned. It was the nation of Israel, that sinned by putting the Son of God to death. Many people do not realize that. Jesus suffered death on the cross, for the fulfillment of the law by giving up his own life, in order for Gods will to be accomplished.

I don’t understand why God would pour his wrath on his own son? Who was taught and learned to do Gods will, willingly, it just doesn’t make sense, however for the nation of Israel and them killing the Lord with the help with the Romans makes much more sense.

 

[john]

I don’t understand why God would pour his wrath on his own son? Who was taught and learned to do Gods will, willingly, it just doesn’t make sense, however for the nation of Israel and them killing the Lord with the help with the Romans makes much more sense.

your getting to the heart of the matter i /we dont understand. other than it had to be that way scriptures fulfilled . it may not make sense But God was not there with him he gave him what it took to endure paul wrote this
1 PETER 3:18

KJ21
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit,

" he was a human being in his Body how else can he understand he wasn't just a ordinary human . He was the Christ . "

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. we cant imagine what he going through .. we find in the scriptures

Luke 22:44

King James Version

​

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

why would he be in agony ? what was it caused his sweat to be as it were great drops of Blood.... that is some serious agony

 

[MatthewG]

your getting to the heart of the matter i /we dont understand. other than it had to be that way scriptures fulfilled . it may not make sense But God was not there with him he gave him what it took to endure paul wrote this
1 PETER 3:18

KJ21
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit,

" he was a human being in his Body how else can he understand he wasn't just a ordinary human . He was the Christ . "

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. we cant imagine what he going through .. we find in the scriptures

Luke 22:44​

​

King James Version​

​

​

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

why would he be in agony ? what was it caused his sweat to be as it were great drops of Blood.... that is some serious agony

Thank you for sharing your insights, with this information John. Jesus suffered greatly, because of his suffering, Paul sought to also partake in his sufferings, denying the self and placing Yahavah (LORD) first, and to love one’s neighbor as their self.

”All I want is to know Christ and the power that raised him from death. I want to share in his sufferings and be like him even in his death.

Then there is hope that I myself will somehow be raised from death. I don’t mean that I am exactly what God wants me to be. I have not yet reached that goal.

But I continue trying to reach it and make it mine. That’s what Christ Jesus wants me to do. It is the reason he made me his. Brothers and sisters, I know that I still have a long way to go.

But there is one thing I do: I forget what is in the past and try as hard as I can to reach the goal before me.

I keep running hard toward the finish line to get the prize that is mine because God has called me through Christ Jesus to life up there in heaven.

All of us who have grown to be spiritually mature should think this way too.

And if there is any of this that you don’t agree with, God will make it clear to you. But we should continue following the truth we already have.“
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭16‬ ‭ERV

 

[john]

Paul sought to also partake in his sufferings

yes his and the Power of His resurrection