civic
Well-known member
No I have not. I will look into getting a copy.
Did God, forsake Jesus on the cross?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
Well I’m not a Calvinistic. So presuming makes terrible decisions when going on to assume anything about anything concerning never asking questions to me about it in the first place.
Hey Matthew are you a Calvinistic believer? Nope, I don’t even know everything surrounding what they entail to believe….
I’m just a Bible reader who likes to study it to some degree and make the decision to believe in the good news, and hope God uses me for his purposes which are always for the betterment of others by and through the spirit and wisdom given by and through Jesus.
When it comes to the topic of the wrath of God that was upon Israel. Jesus partook in the cup of suffering, and upon sin entering in his body, Yahavah moved out of him, when Christ in Jesus left. It’s all based in scripture.
civic
Well-known member
Yes He took the cup of suffering but that is different from the cup of wrath. There is a difference between the two. I pointed that out earlier in the thread. He indeed endured the cup of suffering.
I never said that you were a Calvinist. In fact I said "Calvinists also believe.." which is in addition to what you personally believe.
If "it's all based in scripture" then quote me the verses. I'm waiting....
I don’t think you can make such judgements.
Jesus let out a loud cry - My God, My God why have you forsaken me.
I done wrote it out in the original post…
civic
Well-known member
Here it is again in case you missed it .
Jesus bearing God's “cup of wrath” and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is not found in Scripture.
In Matthew 26:39, Jesus says, "If it be your will, let this cup pass from me." Jesus tells us precisely what the cup was. It was the cup of his suffering, which meant that He would die an agonizing death as a martyr. In the passage below, Jesus told His disciples that they would also drink of the same "cup":
Matthew 20:17-
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
1Thessalonians 5:9-For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
As we see above it was not the cup of wrath Jesus was speaking about but it was the suffering He was going to have to endure for our sins. God has not appointed us to wrath and the cup means the suffering of Jesus and that the disciples would also suffer death as martyrs. In fact, many scriptures testify that believers too will suffer persecution for being a follower of Jesus. Suffering persecution is a promise for a believer who follows Jesus, it is something we should expect to happen in our life.
2 Timothy 3:12- Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.
Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2 Corinthians 4:9- persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.
Jesus bearing God's “cup of wrath” and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is not found in Scripture.
In Matthew 26:39, Jesus says, "If it be your will, let this cup pass from me." Jesus tells us precisely what the cup was. It was the cup of his suffering, which meant that He would die an agonizing death as a martyr. In the passage below, Jesus told His disciples that they would also drink of the same "cup":
Matthew 20:17-
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
1Thessalonians 5:9-For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
As we see above it was not the cup of wrath Jesus was speaking about but it was the suffering He was going to have to endure for our sins. God has not appointed us to wrath and the cup means the suffering of Jesus and that the disciples would also suffer death as martyrs. In fact, many scriptures testify that believers too will suffer persecution for being a follower of Jesus. Suffering persecution is a promise for a believer who follows Jesus, it is something we should expect to happen in our life.
2 Timothy 3:12- Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.
Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
2 Corinthians 4:9- persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.
Here is my take on Matthew 27:45-46:
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/post-44638
I’m good. Can you write a summary? I barely want to read what civic shared.
This verse has no correlation to Jesus and his abandonment. You know that right?
Jesus said, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me.
civic
Well-known member
not forsaken is in all the passages and ties in with persecution and suffering. Jesus experienced it, the Apostles did and so do believers when they are persecuted for their faith- God is always with you even if you feel alone.
doesn’t matter.
What matter is what Jesus said, which is important to understand how the payment of sin comes about…
My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
Many people try their best to ignore these words or make them out to not be true. They are true, and it did happen, only for a moment in time.
I don’t care what any pastor says or biblical scholar try’s to to make it in away that is untrue… hell with that crap.
God remembered his promise, and rose Jesus from the dead.
civic
Well-known member
Its a declaration He is the Messiah which is why He quoted the first verse of the psalm.
do you believe every single verse in Psalm 22 ?
some people just say he is having a great old time singing them psalms on that cross!
Buncha bs crap dude. It’s amazing that you don’t even seem to get it…
God forsake, Jesus on the cross…
He didn’t forget about him…
He couldn’t dwell in that body due to sin…
Just like in the Garden! Sin came, Adam and Eve…
Out…
Does it make you ashamed to say? God left Jesus on the cross to die for sins, in order to reconciled the world back to himself remembering his promises and raising the Lord back up from the dead in justification of the payment.
civic
Well-known member
psalm 22:24 He does not neglect the poor or ignore their suffering;
he does not turn away from them,
but answers when they call for help
Did God turn away from Him in verse 1 ?
verse 22 say NO GOD DID NOT TURN AWAY FROM HIM
now reconcile this verse with 22:1 if you can, thanks
i just said it all to you civic, don’t be so hard headed.
so did God leave Jesus as a declaration of him being the messiah?
Shortly after this, the Roman says “this man was a man of God or Son of God.”
God forsake, Jesus on the cross…
He didn’t forget about him…
He couldn’t dwell in that body due to sin…
Just like in the Garden! Sin came, Adam and Eve…
Out…
so did God leave Jesus as a declaration of him being the messiah?
Shortly after this, the Roman says “this man was a man of God or Son of God.”
God forsake, Jesus on the cross…
He didn’t forget about him…
He couldn’t dwell in that body due to sin…
Just like in the Garden! Sin came, Adam and Eve…
Out…
civic
Well-known member
No verse one is a declaration which Jesus quoted showing He is the Messiah and 22:24 shows the Father never forsook/abandon/turned away from Him.
Did the Christ in Jesus leave him or not? That’s the main question.
The answer is yes.
Yea pslams continues onward, but in that moment of time…
New International Version
“For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back
You’re trying to reason by the scriptures and not the spirit, itself @civic. That’s the problem.
