Did God, forsake Jesus on the cross?

[civic]

I don’t agree or support apologetics.

Paul defended the faith all the time which is exactly what Peter says in the passage I quoted. So did Jesus. Its biblical

 

[MatthewG]

Paul defended the faith all the time which is exactly what Peter says in the passage I quoted. So did Jesus. Its biblical

I believe modern day times has a distorted viewpoint in “apologetics.” With you on top of sharing your own beliefs by use of the scripture, can systematically change and alter what is really said and true.

The defense, is sharing your hope. Not dogmatically saying you must believe this or must believe that @civic.

 

[civic]

I believe modern day times has a distorted viewpoint in “apologetics.” With you on top of sharing your own beliefs by use of the scripture, can systematically change and alter what is really said and true.

The defense, is sharing your hope. Not dogmatically saying you must believe this or must believe that @civic.

1 Peter 3:15- but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

apologia: a speech in defense
Original Word: ἀπολογία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apologia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-og-ee'-ah)
Definition: a speech in defense
Usage: a verbal defense (particularly in a law court).
627 apología (from 575 /apó, "from" and 3056 /lógos, "intelligent reasoning") – properly, a well-reasoned reply; a thought-out response to adequately address the issue(s) that is raised.

627 /apología ("reasoned defense") is the term for making a legal defense in an ancient court. Today 627 /apología ("biblical apologetics") is used for supplying evidences for the Christian faith.

[An "apology" in classical times had nothing to do with saying, "I'm sorry," but rather was a reasoned argument (defense) that presented evidence (supplied compelling proof).]

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 627: ἀπολογία

ἀπολογία, ἀπολογίας, ἡ (see ἀπολογέομαι), verbal defense, speech in defense: Acts 25:16; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Philippians 1:7, 17 (16); 2 Timothy 4:16; with a dative of the person who is to hear the defense, to whom one labors to excuse or to make good his cause: 1 Corinthians 9:3; 1 Peter 3:15; in the same sense, ἡ ἀπολογία ἡ πρός τινα, Acts 22:1 (Xenophon, mem. 4, 8, 5).

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

@civic.

It’s about the hope you have… in you.

Nothing more. Doesn’t say you have to believe this or believe what someone says… in defense of an “argument” that would be false pretense… cause your “defending” an argument… not the hope in you.

Hope this helps you understand…

 

[civic]

@civic.

It’s about the hope you have… in you.

Nothing more. Doesn’t say you have to believe this or believe what someone says… in defense of an “argument” that would be false pretense… cause your “defending” an argument… not the hope in you.

Hope this helps you understand…

I agree its about our hope in Christ but we were discussing apologetics- making a defense for our beliefs.

 

[MatthewG]

I agree its about our hope in Christ but we were discussing apologetics- making a defense for our beliefs.

Your beliefs don’t mean anything but something to you personally.

You’re distorting scripture by making it about “defense for your beliefs.”

It’s about “sharing your hope,” which of course is founded in Yahavah raising his Son back to life again, which brings forth newness of life.

 

[Ahar]

Your beliefs don’t mean anything but something to you personally.

You’re distorting scripture by making it about “defense for your beliefs.”

It’s about “sharing your hope,” which of course is founded in Yahavah raising his Son back to life again, which brings forth newness of life.

Yes sir ree bob, and one does that by sharing one's personal testimony. And in order to share your personal testimony one needs to share what God has done in their lives.

Apologetics is making a defense for your beliefs. Now if someone doesn't hold to the same beliefs they'll automatically accuse you of distorting the scriptures because you're not giving them the understanding of the scriptures that they hold to.

Take John 3:16 for example. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Calvinists say "The world" Means the elect. Non-Calvinists say "The world" means the world.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is translated from the Greek word "kosmos", which means the inhabitants of the earth, the human race

I see how that works?

 

[civic]

Your beliefs don’t mean anything but something to you personally.

You’re distorting scripture by making it about “defense for your beliefs.”

It’s about “sharing your hope,” which of course is founded in Yahavah raising his Son back to life again, which brings forth newness of life.

its not a defense of my "beliefs".

For example the GOSPEL is spelled out exactly what it is and is not. So defending/Apologetics with the gospel is an essential. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your opinion or mine but what does Jesus and the Apostles say the gospel is and is not. The same with the Resurrection of Christ. These are SALVIFIC doctrine's/ beliefs.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

Yes sir ree bob, and one does that by sharing one's personal testimony. And in order to share your personal testimony one needs to share what God has done in their lives.

Apologetics is making a defense for your beliefs. Now if someone doesn't hold to the same beliefs they'll automatically accuse you of distorting the scriptures because you're not giving them the understanding of the scriptures that they hold to.

Take John 3:16 for example. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Calvinists say "The world" Means the elect. Non-Calvinists say "The world" means the world.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is translated from the Greek word "kosmos", which means the inhabitants of the earth, the human race

I see how that works?

Not worried about that type of distortion though it happens.

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.”

Can you tell me in any way this quote of Peter, states having an answer for every debate and argument to argument and debate? Not to say debating is not helpful, most of the time it is not though unless it’s done in love… just as Peter, writing to his audience says.

People can be haughty in their mind and prideful of their beliefs and “experience.” Wrong place to put pride in.

its not a defense of my "beliefs".

For example the GOSPEL is spelled out exactly what it is and is not. So defending/Apologetics with the gospel is an essential. It has nothing whatsoever to do with your opinion or mine but what does Jesus and the Apostles say the gospel is and is not. The same with the Resurrection of Christ. These are SALVIFIC doctrine's/ beliefs.

hope this helps !!!

You said it was exactly that. Anyway, regardless if apologia is in the Greek language, I do not accept modern day, “Apologetics” as yourself. If anything to me it also falls around the line of “sola scripture” compared to a full extensive read of the Apostolic Record which is called the New Testament…

Learning about Yahavah, and the Lord Jesus, and in knowing the truth about them, is “eternal life.”

 

[civic]

Not worried about that type of distortion though it happens.

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.”

Can you tell me in any way this quote of Peter, states having an answer for every debate and argument to argument and debate? Not to say debating is not helpful, most of the time it is not though unless it’s done in love… just as Peter, writing to his audience says.

People can be haughty in their mind and prideful of their beliefs and “experience.” Wrong place to put pride in.


You said it was exactly that. Anyway, regardless if apologia is in the Greek language, I do not accept modern day, “Apologetics” as yourself. If anything to me it also falls around the line of “sola scripture” compared to a full extensive read of the Apostolic Record which is called the New Testament…

Learning about Yahavah, and the Lord Jesus, and in knowing the truth about them, is “eternal life.”

Knowing about Jesus is not eternal life. Knowing the truth and faith in the One who is truth are not the same.

You are actually proving my point about apologetics.

 

[MatthewG]

I will only listen to what Jesus has said, @civic. He said that in a prayer to his Father… “this is eternal life” that people would come to know the true God (of Israel, Isaac, and Jacob) Yahavah, and Jesus Christ, whom though has sent. This is not making this about my belief. This showing you, my hope in what is being said is true, and honest in which, is highly important and valuable to one’s life…

If they so desire to seek Yahavah in faith. There have been many people who continue to believe the trinity, or tri-unity, and baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but you never have anything recorded of the apostles baptizing in the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is awfully strange, to say the least, perhaps it was an added scripture over time; like the extended gospels of Mark that may have been added on to later by perhaps a translator.

You are not correct in “I am proving my point about apologetics” not in the way you think I believe it is about “defending one’s belief” - you should reread that scripture slowly and realize it is “defending one’s hope.” They are totally two different notions completely separated,

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.”

You share with me the scripture all the time, I wonder if I do with you, consider it. I’ve done read the Apostolic Record, for myself which is extremely hard for people to do. However people even older can take simple time to read an hour or more a day if they desire …

To actually grow and come to and understanding rather than here is a “answer for this” here is an “answer for that” but never going any deeper… or even changing one’s mind of previous once had knowing’s renewed by now knowing the true God, and the Lord Jesus, which is “eternal life,” I hope that is true anyway as I continue to share, openly without hiding anything behind my back.

People can say a lot, people can know a lot, people can be in 40 years then come out of it…

Nothing compares to being one with Yahavah through Yeshua, with Yahavas Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ which indwells and creates newness of life…

Notice sometimes there never know reason to quote the scripture to me, cause I done been through enough times to know what I’m talking about, and am sharing about, and hopefully by the spirit truth can be found, and things not worth anything are thrown away.

Cause who in the end are human beings to judge me? Or tell me how to practice my faith? I’ve been wrong before and can be wrong again? But the Spirit that comes through which is Christ helps us to do what is right, over what is wrong, praise be to him, whom makes us right with God, his Father, and being able to have access and pray for help by the Holy Spirit.


Again… hope this helps you in understanding my thoughts and why I am who I am in the Lord Yeshua, and I will discern and discuss with you, but if you are gonna tell me all of this is wrong.

Then you should really just step back away, because otherwise whatever you may bring to the table concerning this topic, will at best be an argument and not getting to reality.

 

[civic]

I will only listen to what Jesus has said, @civic. He said that in a prayer to his Father… “this is eternal life” that people would come to know the true God (of Israel, Isaac, and Jacob) Yahavah, and Jesus Christ, whom though has sent. This is not making this about my belief. This showing you, my hope in what is being said is true, and honest in which, is highly important and valuable to one’s life…

If they so desire to seek Yahavah in faith. There have been many people who continue to believe the trinity, or tri-unity, and baptizing in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but you never have anything recorded of the apostles baptizing in the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is awfully strange, to say the least, perhaps it was an added scripture over time; like the extended gospels of Mark that may have been added on to later by perhaps a translator.

You are not correct in “I am proving my point about apologetics” not in the way you think I believe it is about “defending one’s belief” - you should reread that scripture slowly and realize it is “defending one’s hope.” They are totally two different notions completely separated,

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and reverence.”

You share with me the scripture all the time, I wonder if I do with you, consider it. I’ve done read the Apostolic Record, for myself which is extremely hard for people to do. However people even older can take simple time to read an hour or more a day if they desire …

To actually grow and come to and understanding rather than here is a “answer for this” here is an “answer for that” but never going any deeper… or even changing one’s mind of previous once had knowing’s renewed by now knowing the true God, and the Lord Jesus, which is “eternal life,” I hope that is true anyway as I continue to share, openly without hiding anything behind my back.

People can say a lot, people can know a lot, people can be in 40 years then come out of it…

Nothing compares to being one with Yahavah through Yeshua, with Yahavas Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Christ which indwells and creates newness of life…

Notice sometimes there never know reason to quote the scripture to me, cause I done been through enough times to know what I’m talking about, and am sharing about, and hopefully by the spirit truth can be found, and things not worth anything are thrown away.

Cause who in the end are human beings to judge me? Or tell me how to practice my faith? I’ve been wrong before and can be wrong again? But the Spirit that comes through which is Christ helps us to do what is right, over what is wrong, praise be to him, whom makes us right with God, his Father, and being able to have access and pray for help by the Holy Spirit.


Again… hope this helps you in understanding my thoughts and why I am who I am in the Lord Yeshua, and I will discern and discuss with you, but if you are gonna tell me all of this is wrong.

Then you should really just step back away, because otherwise whatever you may bring to the table concerning this topic, will at best be an argument and not getting to reality.

Biblical faith and salvation

πίστις, (a) faith, belief, trust, generally of the leaning of the entire human personality upon God or the Messiah in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness. The older meaning, intellectual conviction of certain truths, is often present. (In Eph. 1:15 [shorter text] εἰς = among); (b) with the article, the faith (in Lk. 18:8 perhaps the necessary faith or the faith that perseveres), the Christian faith, Ac. 6:7, 13:8, 16:5, 24:24, Gal. 1:23, 3:23, 6:10, Eph. 4:13, Jude 3, Jude 20, &c.; (c) as a psychological faculty, Heb. 11:1; (d) integrity, faithfulness, trustworthiness, loyalty, Mt. 23:23, Rom. 1:17 (?), Gal. 5:22, 2 Tim. 4:7; (e) a guarantee, Ac. 17:31.[1] Lexicon to the Greek New Testament.


Faith that saves demonstrated below.

Luke 19:5-10

5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

To save- it means to deliver out of danger

Salvation- refers to the activity which produces the state of safety

Savior- is reserved for the one who saves.

We sometimes talk about saving things but Jesus only used the word in with man whom He saved.

Luke 19:9- This is the only time Jesus used the word salvation and that was with Zacchaeus. Christ’s purpose was one of seeking and saving the lost. Zacchaeus was a rich tax collector who was looked down upon for his livelihood. He was despised by those around him. When Jesus approached him and Zacchaeus looked up at Him , Jesus asked him to use his house and Zacchaeus gladly came down and received Him. When they went into the house the multitude murmured and within a short visit Zacchaeus was repentant of his ill gains which was evidence of his new found faith in the Savior. Salvation is the power that takes hold of a person and remakes him.

Here are some verses that Jesus used the word save.

Luke 6:9- Jesus restored the withered hand

Luke 8:48- Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood

Luke 8:50- Jesus raised Jairus daughter from the dead

Luke 17:19- Jesus cleansed the lepers

Luke 18:42- Jesus healed the blind


So as we can see to save means to completely remove or destroy those destructive forces. To restore all that had been lost. Salvation in the teaching of Jesus is the complete change from one condition to its opposite. Jesus confronted man with the reality of sin. The religious people of his day hated Him without a cause because they loved their sin. Jesus taught us to “repent toward God”(Matt 4:17) To believe in Me (John 6:28,29) and “test Me”, will to do My will. ( John 7:17)

Eternal life is to know Christ ( John 17:3) Jesus said you are my disciples if you abide in Me. ( John 8:31,32) Apart from Him I can do nothing.(John 15:5)

Faith is a conviction of the mind that Christ is God. Jesus said unless you believe that “ I AM” you will die in your sins.(John 8:24) Read the whole chapter. Paul declared one must confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) to be saved and those who call upon Him will be delivered(Joel 2:32). Secondly it is a voluntary surrender to Him as Lord or Master of your life. By faith our mind trusts in God, our heart responds to His love and our will submits to the commands of God. Our life yields to obedience in our service to Him. Faith goes beyond reason, it believes without understanding why. ( Heb 11:1) Faith chooses to endure ill treatment (Heb 11:25) Faith accepts all things as a part of God will, Paul’s imprisonment.( Phil1:12) You are not born with faith, it comes from hearing Gods word(Rom 10:17) You cannot be saved without faith.(John 3:36) No peace with God without faith.(Rom 5:1) You are justified by faith(Gal 2:16) Christ dwells in our hearts by faith (Eph 3:17) The Spirit is received by faith (Gal 3:2) And finally Jesus alone is the author and finisher of our faith.(Heb 12:2)

 

[MatthewG]

Did you read what I shared with you.

It’s coming from the heart. You don’t have trouble reading do you! You write all the time. You also try to write in directing me to understanding something I’m already familiar with. It’s the Gospel of Jesus Christ that in which deliverance in which the power of Yahavah is made evident…

To continue to be fruitless, and not respond back honestly to my reply to you, makes me discern you have alternative motives in your reasonings and decisions to make post upon this thread here.

It’s fine, I’m just making sure you understand that I’m not stupid…

Okay? I like you, your fine with me, we sit and have dinner, but the methods you tend with me, are constantly trying to figure out, a way to get out, or just move on from being in the spotlight because no one likes that on them. It’s okay, you’re not a bad guy, it’s just annoying. Your a good guy, in Christ always, but not everything you share really helps when you choose avoidance, and not really desiring any form of true communication… and always consider everything you share to be true and correct….

It’s the Bible! Though Matthew! How could it be wrong! It’s not the Bible that is wrong. It’s the Apologetic and manmade traditions and teachings of man twisted, and mangled and teachings of all kinds of things behind a pulpit.

That’s why I don’t trust you. I don’t trust anyone, I can’t depend on you to save me… you’re not going to die for me. I wouldn’t die for anyone else, I would kill if it is in self defense, in a murderous rage I would… I’m glad and thankful Yahavah got me where he needs me, at spiritual rest in the Lord Yeshua, bearing my own cross…

That you personally do not bear.

 

[civic]

Did you read what I shared with you.

It’s coming from the heart. You don’t have trouble reading do you! You write all the time. You also try to write in directing me to understanding something I’m already familiar with. It’s the Gospel of Jesus Christ that in which deliverance in which the power of Yahavah is made evident…

To continue to be fruitless, and not respond back honestly to my reply to you, makes me discern you have alternative motives in your reasonings and decisions to make post upon this thread here.

It’s fine, I’m just making sure you understand that I’m not stupid…

Okay? I like you, your fine with me, we sit and have dinner, but the methods you tend with me, are constantly trying to figure out, a way to get out, or just move on from being in the spotlight because no one likes that on them. It’s okay, you’re not a bad guy, it’s just annoying. Your a good guy, in Christ always, but not everything you share really helps when you choose avoidance, and not really desiring any form of true communication… and always consider everything you share to be true and correct….

It’s the Bible! Though Matthew! How could it be wrong! It’s not the Bible that is wrong. It’s the Apologetic and manmade traditions and teachings of man twisted, and mangled and teachings of all kinds of things behind a pulpit.

That’s why I don’t trust you. I don’t trust anyone, I can’t depend on you to save me… you’re not going to die for me. I wouldn’t die for anyone else, I would kill if it is in self defense, in a murderous rage I would… I’m glad and thankful Yahavah got me where he needs me, at spiritual rest in the Lord Yeshua, bearing my own cross…

That you personally do not bear.

I'm sharing scripture just like you are matthew. and I believe you are a young smart man who is seeking truth. I'm fine with you not trusting me thats between you and God. But I do know you do trust in a man and believe what he teaches. We have had this discussion on the other forum. So to say all your beliefs and ideas came from God and not a man is not true. Many of your beliefs came from him who was the former mormon. ( Shawn McCraney )

 

[MatthewG]

I'm sharing scripture just like you are matthew. and I believe you are a young smart man who is seeking truth. I'm fine with you not trusting me thats between you and God. But I do know you do trust in a man and believe what he teaches. We have had this discussion on the other forum. So to say all your beliefs and ideas came from God and not a man is not true. Many of your beliefs came from him who was the former mormon. ( Shawn McCraney )

Many things I have learned, concerned the Bible, and the who, what, what, when, where, how. Shawn helped me, just like many people who came by and helped you also… by uplifting the spirit, and not the flesh…

Most of my beliefs fall in line with the scriptures, on merit of Yeshua fulfilling all things, as he was so promised to come and do…

So… yeah, Shawn. He is a cool dude. So is some other pastors out there that are nothing like he is… He always adamant about no one trusting him… but to seek out by the heart in faith and seek out the one whom you call Father…

 

[civic]

Many things I have learned, concerned the Bible, and the who, what, what, when, where, how. Shawn helped me, just like many people who came by and helped you also… by uplifting the spirit, and not the flesh…

Most of my beliefs fall in line with the scriptures, on merit of Yeshua fulfilling all things, as he was so promised to come and do…

So… yeah, Shawn. He is a cool dude. So is some other pastors out there that are nothing like he is… He always adamant about no one trusting him… but to seek out by the heart in faith and seek out the one whom you call Father…

Ditto my friend

 

[Behold]

Learning about Yahavah, and the Lord Jesus, and in knowing the truth about them, is “eternal life.”

Eternal Life is having Jesus in you., as Jesus is eternal life.

Learning about Him, and then coming to "faith in Christ" is how God saves you, so that you become this.

"The Temple of the Holy Spirit"

"Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory", (Glory is Heaven)

"anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ in them (Holy Spirit) does not belong to God".

"Christ is THAT Spirit) (Holy Spirit)

Jesus said to the 11.. "receive you the Holy Spirit", and only God can give the Holy Spirit, as ..."God is A Spirit".., and "Christ is THAT Spirit".

 

[MatthewG]

Eternal Life is having Jesus in you., as Jesus is eternal life.

Learning about Him, and then coming to "faith in Christ" is how God saves you, so that you become this.

"The Temple of the Holy Spirit"

"Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory", (Glory is Heaven)

"anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ in them (Holy Spirit) does not belong to God".

"Christ is THAT Spirit) (Holy Spirit)

Jesus said to the 11.. "receive you the Holy Spirit", and only God can give the Holy Spirit, as ..."God is A Spirit".., and "Christ is THAT Spirit".

I’m just quoting what Yeshua said. It’s simple.

”These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.“
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭KJV

 

[civic]

Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.

Also we see that when we search the NT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.


On behalf of seeing χριστος as the antecedent are the following arguments: (1) Although it is true that αληθινος θεος is not elsewhere referred to Christ, αληθεια is, and is so in Johannine literature (John 14:6).

29 Winer-Moulton, 195.
Further, αληθινος θεος is not a "constant.. epithet" as Winer supposes, being found only in John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20! (2) Christ is also said to be ζωη in John's writings John 11:25; 14:6; 1 John 1:1-2), an epithet nowhere else used of the Father. (3) The demonstrative pronoun, ουτος, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent.For what it is worth, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω is the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. 32 The issue cannot be decided on grammar alone. But suffice it to say here that there are no grammatical reasons for denying that αληθινος θεος is descriptive of Jesus Christ.



My top 10 biblical and exegetical reasons Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life.

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

2nd- Jesus is called Eternal Life over and over again in Johns writings

3rd- John opens up his epistle with the Eternal life(Jesus) that was with the Father in the beginning and was manifest to the disciples(1 John 1:1-5)

4th- John ends his epistle with Jesus who is eternal life and only is eternal life found in Him who is the true God.

5th- never is eternal life used of the Father alone. When the Father is included the Son is always mentioned together with the Father making them equal. Equality with the Father was not something Jesus needed to grasp at as He already possessed complete Deity as God.(Phil 2, Col 2:9)

6th- John would not leave his readers with any ambiguity warning them to guard themselves from idols(5:21) So this would be clear his reference was to those who reject Jesus as the true God. They are the idoloters and antichrists John writes of in his epistles.

7th- Jesus is also the True God and the True one in 1 John. Jesus is the true light which brings light to all men (John 1:9) Jesus is the truth (John 14:6)Jesus is the true vine (John 15:1). Jesus is the true witness of God (John 18:37) He who is true (Revelation 3:7) Jesus is the faithful and true witness (Revelation 3:14)Jesus is Lord God Almighty, Just and true are your ways(Revelation 15:3) Jesus is faithful and true(Revelation 19:11).

8th- [In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3 . . . ) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent.FWIW, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω IS the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. Wallace.

9th- Netbible- Wallace
If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to "the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.

10th- This/ He (autos)Jesus Christ (the last-named Person) is the true God


Conclusion: So the most logical conclusion is that it refers to Jesus as the true God. Not only is this Wallace's conclusion from Johns usage of outos but He is the closest antecedent (most times in the NT this principal holds true). Eternal Life is never used of the Father alone in John’s writings and only a couple of times does John include the Father with the Son regarding eternal life. John opens up his epistles describing the "eternal life" who was with the Father in the beginning and then ends his epistle with eternal life identifying Jesus as the true God and eternal life. John then says this in the last verse:

1 John 5:21-Guard yourselves from idols- Now why would he leave any ambiguity in verse 20 as to the identity of the true God and eternal life then turn around commanding them to protect themselves from idolatry? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless John is identifying Jesus as the true God and refuting the Gnostics of his day who denied the Incarnation.This is the last of the contrasts of which the Epistle is so full. We have had light and darkness, truth and falsehood, love and hate, God and the world, Christ and Antichrist, life and death, doing righteousness and doing sin, the children of God and the children of the devil, the spirit of truth and the spirit of error, the believer untouched by the evil one and the world lying in the evil one; and now at the close we have what in that age was the ever present and pressing contrast between the true God Jesus Christ and the idols.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

…

I’m just quoting what Jesus said…

Sometimes what Jesus says is not important to others, or they believe they have some other reasons to not simply… look at what he had shared in a prayer to Yahavah, his Father and our Father.

”These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.“
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭KJV

@civic why do I have to take a lesson on all you shared, when the evidence of what Jesus said, concerning “this is life eternal.”

Maybe… Jesus is just wrong… who needs his advice or wisdom? Or maybe the thing needed is to slow down… and take a moment to be sure and honest in what is indeed being shared… or not of course…

It really does not matter to some people.