Did God, forsake Jesus on the cross?

[praise_yeshua]

How can you say I do not believe in them?

God was in Christ. I do not see how I am devaluing Jesus at any rate... except for your assuming I devalue him.

What

You said the Father forsook the son. That is what you said. Jesus said the Father was with Him. You are wrong. You read it yourself yet you are ignoring your contradiction.

You devalue the Son because you insist that the Son is NOT equal with the Father.

I am a father and a son myself. I am both. Make an application. You insist the Father and Son can not be equal. Get it?

Do you have a son?

 

[praise_yeshua]

@civic, looks like some imagery going on there in Revelation 19, not really sure what to make of it, can't say for sure. And unsure whether or not to claim that 'even the Father' did not know the name.

What. No imagery in.... "Why have you forsaken me".....

Don't believe your own nonsense. You're fabricating things to resist the Truth.

What will happen if you accept the Trinity? You basically already told me you cant be convinced.

Think..... This is battle in your mind. You refuse to accept certain things because you know that accepting them..... will have a tremendous impact upon who you are. Don't resist.

 

[MatthewG]

You said the Father forsook the son. That is what you said. Jesus said the Father was with Him. You are wrong. You read it yourself yet you are ignoring your contradict.

You devalue the Son because you insist that Son is equal with the Father.

I am a father and a son myself. I am both. Make an application. You insist the Father and Son can not be equal. Get it?

Do you have a son?

Good, Ill be fine with just being wrong.

Can you answer a question for me?

Why, when Jesus has overcome everything, and hands the kingdom back to his Father, Jesus is subjected to the Father?

1Co 15:27 For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. But when it says “everything” has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him.

 

[MatthewG]

You said the Father forsook the son. That is what you said. Jesus said the Father was with Him. You are wrong. You read it yourself yet you are ignoring your contradict.

You devalue the Son because you insist that Son is equal with the Father.

I am a father and a son myself. I am both. Make an application. You insist the Father and Son can not be equal. Get it?

Do you have a son?

What. No imagery in.... "Why have you forsaken me".....

Don't believe your own nonsense. You're fabricating things to resist the Truth.

What will happen if you accept the Trinity? You basically already told me you cant be convinced.

Think..... This is battle in your mind. You refuse to accept certain things because you know that accepting them..... will have a tremendous impact upon who you are. Don't resist.

I do not want to become invovled with humanatrian arguments.


Yahavah and his ways and thoughts are above our ways and thoughts. Yahavah, forsaking Jesus on the cross, is something that can be argued against, however it was a literal happening as the Yahavah, "Christ in the Lord Jesus" moved out, and Jesus cried, My GOd, My God why have you forsaken me. As Jesus died on the cross and his body filled up with sin, God moved out of him, just as Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden when sin entered it.


I outright reject the trinity, and do not see it as a viable doctrine to save souls, compared to the gospels of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which rest for ones soul is founded in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and by faith in him, he by his righteousness allows us to be able to go and have access with our now adoptive Father in Heaven, as we become his children, and grow and mature into Sons or Daughters of God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Good, Ill be fine with just being wrong.

Can you answer a question for me?

Why, when Jesus has overcome everything, and hands the kingdom back to his Father, Jesus is subjected to the Father?

1Co 15:27 For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. But when it says “everything” has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him.

I already answered you. It is a logical argument relative to completion.

Paul is trying to get those he was writing to...to have complete orderly thoughts from beginning to end.

It simply an appeal to the fact that the work of God in Christ is a circular event. It began with the Father and complete in the Son.

Subjection is the completed process begun in the Father. It doesn't establish a "pecking" order or rank in Divinity.

Are we subjected to one another? Do you remember those verses? There is no rank among us. Yet we are all subject to one another, or at least we should be. We can if we all submit. UNITY. You are looking at this entirely wrong. We all have our own issues.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I do not want to become invovled with humanatrian arguments.


Yahavah and his ways and thoughts are above our ways and thoughts. Yahavah, forsaking Jesus on the cross, is something that can be argued against, however it was a literal happening as the Yahavah, "Christ in the Lord Jesus" moved out, and Jesus cried, My GOd, My God why have you forsaken me. As Jesus died on the cross and his body filled up with sin, God moved out of him, just as Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden when sin entered it.


I outright reject the trinity, and do not see it as a viable doctrine to save souls, compared to the gospels of the Lord Jesus Christ, in which rest for ones soul is founded in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and by faith in him, he by his righteousness allows us to be able to go and have access with our now adoptive Father in Heaven, as we become his children, and grow and mature into Sons or Daughters of God.

I have done nothing but grow in admiration of the Son in my life. I see no division in the Son and the Father. Yet, you insist there are.

I suggest you can know a sense of this personally if you actually had a son yourself. Imagine being just like your perfect Father. This is why the very analogous references we are discussing meet our own personal experiences. We live as our own gods in this life.

Have you ever lived someone that didn't love you? It is difficult to emotionally deal with our direct connection to God in our own emotions. It is why you are avoiding this part of the discussion. You can feel the uncomfortable nature of your unbelief.

 

[MatthewG]

I already answered you. It is a logical argument relative to completion.

Yes. When Jesus overcame everything he got to sit with Father in his throne. However it is still the Fathers throne, shared now with by the Son.

Paul is trying to get those he was writing to...to have complete orderly thoughts from beginning to end.

No doubt.

It simply an appeal to the fact that the work of God in Christ is a circular event. It began with the Father and complete in the Son.

With all things beneath the feet of Jesus, then handing the kingdom to Yahavah, Jesus is still subjected to the Father, as the eternal begotten son raised from the dead.

Subjection is the completed process begun in the Father. It doesn't establish a "pecking" order or rank in Divinity.

From my perspective in what is seen you have, Yahavah, and you have Yahavahs Word, and you have Yahavahs Holy Spirit.

When Jesus was born into this world, he subjected his own life unto the Father, being the Word of God… I never seen where Jesus has ever exalted himself above his Father. They are as One, bring forth the purpose of Yahavahs will, who better to put this forth than the Word of God, made flesh.

Are we subjected to one another? Do you remember those verses? There is no rank among us. Yet we are all subject to one another, or at least we should be.

I believe we are all subject to Yahavahs if we seek a relationship with him and fellowship with his Son.

We can we all submit. UNITY. You are looking at this entirely wrong. We all have our own issues.

If you say so.

I have done nothing but grow in admiration of the Son in my life. I see no division in the Son and the Father. Yet, you insist there are.

If you don’t see none. Good. The only one to boast in who changes lives is the Lord Yeshua. Praise be to him, and all he did willingly for all mankind to be able to be reconciled back to his Father, Yahavah.

I suggest you can know a sense of this personally if you actually had a son yourself.

Don’t want children.

Imagine being just like your perfect Father.

My dad abandoned me.

This is why the very analogous references we are discussing meet our own personal experiences. We live as our own gods in this life.

You mean like judges?

Have you ever lived someone that didn't love you?

Are we back on the topic of God forsaking his Son? Jesus said it. People read it and take it either seriously or haphazardly.

It is difficult to emotionally deal with our direct connection to God in our own emotions.

I try to refrain my emotions, or feelings deliberately away when it comes to reading the Bible scripture. It’s best to read, but pray for Yahavah to help you, by the spirit to help you learn spiritual lessons that are founded all in and through the Bible…

Imagine if we just did not “feel” like loving God today, or we did not “feel” like forgiving or neighbor.

It is why you are avoiding this part of the discussion. You can feel the uncomfortable nature of your unbelief.

Who are you? To say I have disbelief? In the Lord Yeshua, whom the Father rose back from the dead by His Spirit? Who are you again?

My name is Matthew and it’s nice to meet you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes. When Jesus overcame everything he got to sit with Father in his throne. However it is still the Fathers throne, shared now with by the Son.

No doubt.

With all things beneath the feet of Jesus, then handing the kingdom to Yahavah, Jesus is still subjected to the Father, as the eternal begotten son raised from the dead.

From my perspective in what is seen you have, Yahavah, and you have Yahavahs Word, and you have Yahavahs Holy Spirit.

When Jesus was born into this world, he subjected his own life unto the Father, being the Word of God… I never seen where Jesus has ever exalted himself above his Father. They are as One, bring forth the purpose of Yahavahs will, who better to put this forth than the Word of God, made flesh.

I believe we are all subject to Yahavahs if we seek a relationship with him and fellowship with his Son.

If you say so.



If you don’t see none. Good. The only one to boast in who changes lives is the Lord Yeshua. Praise be to him, and all he did willingly for all mankind to be able to be reconciled back to his Father, Yahavah.

Don’t want children.

My dad abandoned me.

You mean like judges?

Are we back on the topic of God forsaking his Son? Jesus said it. People read it and take it either seriously or haphazardly.

I try to refrain my emotions, or feelings deliberately away when it comes to reading the Bible scripture. It’s best to read, but pray for Yahavah to help you, by the spirit to help you learn spiritual lessons that are founded all in and through the Bible…

Imagine if we just did not “feel” like loving God today, or we did not “feel” like forgiving or neighbor.

Who are you? To say I have disbelief? In the Lord Yeshua, whom the Father rose back from the dead by His Spirit? Who are you again?

My name is Matthew and it’s nice to meet you.

Just imagine if your earthy father hadn't did what he did. How you feel about a perfect Father and you being a perfect son. You are emotionally disconnecting because of your experience. It is sad but we all lose our innocence through our parents. Not that I blame anyone. We ultimately become willing participants in our own failures. You're at a point you need more than just words from another. You need comfort. Peace that is found in the Truth and witnessed personally by God.

I hope you recall these words.... "I believe but help thou my unbelief". Do a search and read the narrative.

There is no separation nor rank in perfection.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes. When Jesus overcame everything he got to sit with Father in his throne. However it is still the Fathers throne, shared now with by the Son.

No doubt.

With all things beneath the feet of Jesus, then handing the kingdom to Yahavah, Jesus is still subjected to the Father, as the eternal begotten son raised from the dead.

From my perspective in what is seen you have, Yahavah, and you have Yahavahs Word, and you have Yahavahs Holy Spirit.

When Jesus was born into this world, he subjected his own life unto the Father, being the Word of God… I never seen where Jesus has ever exalted himself above his Father. They are as One, bring forth the purpose of Yahavahs will, who better to put this forth than the Word of God, made flesh.

I believe we are all subject to Yahavahs if we seek a relationship with him and fellowship with his Son.

If you say so.



If you don’t see none. Good. The only one to boast in who changes lives is the Lord Yeshua. Praise be to him, and all he did willingly for all mankind to be able to be reconciled back to his Father, Yahavah.

Don’t want children.

My dad abandoned me.

You mean like judges?

Are we back on the topic of God forsaking his Son? Jesus said it. People read it and take it either seriously or haphazardly.

I try to refrain my emotions, or feelings deliberately away when it comes to reading the Bible scripture. It’s best to read, but pray for Yahavah to help you, by the spirit to help you learn spiritual lessons that are founded all in and through the Bible…

Imagine if we just did not “feel” like loving God today, or we did not “feel” like forgiving or neighbor.

Who are you? To say I have disbelief? In the Lord Yeshua, whom the Father rose back from the dead by His Spirit? Who are you again?

My name is Matthew and it’s nice to meet you.

One last thing...

Jesus was experienced death when He uttered those words. As a man, He was experiencing what is to feel His life leave His body.

I will feel the same way one day. I will feel the grip of death as my life leaves my body, but I will never be alone nor forsaken. I hope you want as well.

 

[MatthewG]

Just imagine if your earthy father hadn't did what he did.

I’m okay he did what he did.

How you feel about a perfect Father and you being a perfect son.

It’s amazing to believe in faith knowing that one is adopted by the Father, in heaven, because of the gospel which is the power of God unto Salvation.

You are emotionally disconnecting because of your experience.

You have no right try to manipulate me.

It is sad but we all lose our innocence through our parents. Not that I blame anyone.

Good and evil is learned early in life.

We ultimately become willing participants in our own failures.

Okay.

You're at a point you need more than just words from another. You need comfort. Peace that is found in the Truth and witnessed personally by God.

I find comfort and rest knowing it’s Yeshua who makes people right with Yahavah and it’s by and through faith, in the death, burial, and resurrection.

I hope you recall these words.... "I believe but help thou my unbelief". Do a search and read the narrative.

Do understand, thank you for your efforts, and “concerns.”

There is no separation nor rank in perfection.

Jesus is not above his Father. That is why Jesus becomes subjected to him, even though they share the throne together which is still Jesus Fathers throne… there does seem to be a difference between the Father and the Lord Yeshua, to me, because they are distinct, one being Yahavah, and one being Yahavahs Word.

People can pray and worship Jesus if they want to, they can choose to participate in faith how they choose to, but Jesus told us his Father seeks for those who desire to worship Him in spirit and truth…

Jesus didn’t say, “worship me in spirit and truth”

One last thing...

Jesus was experienced death when He uttered those words. As a man, He was experiencing what is to feel His life leave His body.

I believe that Christ within Jesus left him. He was utterly alone, and he willingly gave up his life, for his Father in order to have the world reconciled back to himself, because of Yeshuas willingness.

I will feel the same way one day. I will feel the grip of death as my life leaves my body, but I will never be alone nor forsaken. I hope you want as well.

Do you think I feel alone or forsaken? Jesus was, but what’s important about this, is Jesus within his heart continued to believe and have faith that his Father would raise him up again from the dead, and three days later the promise came true! Yahavah rose Yeshua from the dead by his spirit. Praise be to them both.

 

[Complete]

Hello Chris,

Strong's Concordance
el: God, in pl. gods
Original Word: אֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: el
Phonetic Spelling: (ale)
Definition: God, in pl. gods
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
God, in pl. gods
NASB Translation
El-berith* (1), God (204), god (16), God's (2), gods (3), helpless* (1), mighty (3), Mighty One (3), power (1), strong (1).




The Father, or as people say God, his name is Yahavah, Yahweh, Yehovah, Jehovah. I see that you present here, that we should notice that when Jesus says "My God, My God' that is El, or related to Almighty. Okay, Yeshua is calling out to the Father, Yahavah, Yahweh, Yehovah, Jehovah. That is God's name. What is it exactly are you wanting to talk about ?

Re. replly#189

Hello @MatthewG,

I was simply pointing out, in reply #189, the meaning of the word which our Lord used when He called out to God, 'El', and the title used of Christ Himself as, 'The Son of Man'. That it is representative of the relation not of 'Son' to 'Father', though we know that relation to be true, but of 'Creature' to 'God Almighty' in this instance. On the cross He was as, 'Son of Man', representative of all mankind before Almighty God: Bearing the penalty of sin for the whole of creation; and in doing so He was reconciling the world unto God. Yet the burden of man's sin and the separation that brings between man and God must, for one who Himself was without sin, and had always been in close communion with His Heavenly Father, must have been extremely hard to bear, which possibly brought forth the words, 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me'.

I am aware that this is the product of my own understanding, and therefore must be judged accordingly, but this is what the use of both words brought to my mind, and this is why I shared.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[synergy]

I'm no psychologist but I want to say this with all due respect to what you've told us about yourself. Tell me immediately if I'm getting too personal in what I will say. Maybe you're projecting your father's abandonment of you to the Father's supposed abandonment of His Son. And you get great consolation of that fact through Jesus' Diivine actions. I can then appreciate your personal psychological investment in your personal way of thinking. Like I said, I'm no Psychologist so if I'm way off just tell me. I have no emotional investment in thinking that I am a psychologist.

 

[civic]

I'm no psychologist but I want to say this with all due respect to what you've told us about yourself. Tell me immediately if I'm getting too personal in what I will say. Maybe you're projecting your father's abandonment of you to the Father's supposed abandonment of His Son. And you get great consolation of that fact through Jesus' Diivine actions. I can then appreciate your personal psychological investment in your personal way of thinking. Like I said, I'm no Psychologist so if I'm way off just tell me. I have no emotional investment in thinking that I am a psychologist.

I know plenty of females who have had abusive and non existent relationships with their earthly father that gets transferred to our heavenly Father. So there is definitely a connection on how we perceive God with our own experience with our earthly fathers.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I’m okay he did what he did.

It’s amazing to believe in faith knowing that one is adopted by the Father, in heaven, because of the gospel which is the power of God unto Salvation.

You have no right try to manipulate me.

Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't have the power to the manipulate anyone.

People can pray and worship Jesus if they want to, they can choose to participate in faith how they choose to, but Jesus told us his Father seeks for those who desire to worship Him in spirit and truth…

Jesus didn’t say, “worship me in spirit and truth”

Why should He? He sought to make sure that people understand that He was equal to the Father. Jesus never rejected anyone's worship of him. Contrast this with

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I believe that Christ within Jesus left him. He was utterly alone, and he willingly gave up his life, for his Father in order to have the world reconciled back to himself, because of Yeshuas willingness.

The body of Christ died. You're basically confirming this above. Jesus didn't have life in His body to say those words... AFTER He was seperated from His body.

Do you think I feel alone or forsaken? Jesus was, but what’s important about this, is Jesus within his heart continued to believe and have faith that his Father would raise him up again from the dead, and three days later the promise came true! Yahavah rose Yeshua from the dead by his spirit. Praise be to them both.

That is NOT what the Scriptures say.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[civic]

Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't have the power to the manipulate anyone.



Why should He? He sought to make sure that people understand that He was equal to the Father. Jesus never rejected anyone's worship of him. Contrast this with

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



The body of Christ died. You're basically confirming this above. Jesus didn't have life in His body to say those words... AFTER He was seperated from His body.



That is NOT what the Scriptures say.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Amen

 

[MatthewG]

Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe. I don't have the power to the manipulate anyone.



Why should He? He sought to make sure that people understand that He was equal to the Father. Jesus never rejected anyone's worship of him. Contrast this with

Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



The body of Christ died. You're basically confirming this above. Jesus didn't have life in His body to say those words... AFTER He was seperated from His body.



That is NOT what the Scriptures say.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm no psychologist but I want to say this with all due respect to what you've told us about yourself. Tell me immediately if I'm getting too personal in what I will say. Maybe you're projecting your father's abandonment of you to the Father's supposed abandonment of His Son. And you get great consolation of that fact through Jesus' Diivine actions. I can then appreciate your personal psychological investment in your personal way of thinking. Like I said, I'm no Psychologist so if I'm way off just tell me. I have no emotional investment in thinking that I am a psychologist.

You are way off.

 

[MatthewG]

Re. replly#189

Hello @MatthewG,

I was simply pointing out, in reply #189, the meaning of the word which our Lord used when He called out to God, 'El', and the title used of Christ Himself as, 'The Son of Man'. That it is representative of the relation not of 'Son' to 'Father', though we know that relation to be true, but of 'Creature' to 'God Almighty' in this instance. On the cross He was as, 'Son of Man', representative of all mankind before Almighty God: Bearing the penalty of sin for the whole of creation; and in doing so He was reconciling the world unto God. Yet the burden of man's sin and the separation that brings between man and God must, for one who Himself was without sin, and had always been in close communion with His Heavenly Father, must have been extremely hard to bear, which possibly brought forth the words, 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me'.

I am aware that this is the product of my own understanding, and therefore must be judged accordingly, but this is what the use of both words brought to my mind, and this is why I shared.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you for sharing with me, Chris. Thought provoking!

 

[praise_yeshua]

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Context is our friend.....

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

 

[civic]

Context is our friend.....

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

its proof of His Deity as Co-Creator and equality with the Father. Its the Shema which is being denying either unknowingly or intentionally.