Did God ( Christ ) die ?

[GeneZ]

The irony is that I’m one of the most historical/ orthodox trinitarians on Christian Internet forums as an owner lol. The farthest thing from apostasy within Christendom.

I too can cite orthodox Trinitarian understanding.
But, once we have that much?

Why do you stop there and fail to gain in more understanding as to why One God is Three?

You do not want understanding?
You just want your merit badge for learning the Trinity?
You just want what you believe to act as is a safe room to hide in?
That approach will only work when you choose to play stupid and stall others when debating other Christians.

You do need to understand more! Much more! You are acting like like a private in basic training who does not want to learn how to used his issued weapon effectively. Instead, you take pleasure in being able to cite each part of your rifle that you break down and reassemble, but not
able to use it in real warfare.

We need to become able to think with answers that would astound a Communist interrogator who has you imprisoned
for being a Christian. As you now are? She/he would laugh at how well you memorized your data, but could not give a
single good reason for God being a Trinity. You would be seen as just another dumb sheep mind, and killed without a problem.

You are not prepared as to avoid needing to be prepared, as you now are. For then you would not be able to disappear when challenged
by truth you can not cope with, and then come back later as if nothing was said; like you habitually have done here.

We need to overcome evil that God already knows we can face. To face it, and overcome it, before that evil tries to overcome you.
In doing so? That the evil, when observing you, will draw back without being able to try. Because it will know it can not get the
dominate position it craves to have over you in order to eliminate you in a pleasurable disdain for those being so dumb. Having
a wise answer destroys their fun.

God's grace can make you wiser than you ever realized you could be...

Just do not resist a new aspect of truth when introduced to you that scares you... and want to hide from it somehow by citing book reports
like a good little boy does.


Not everything God wants you to know is going to be liked by believers. It may even be hated at first!

Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. "

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21

Christians were actually hating what the Spirit was telling them.
To "test" one must avoid running to hide in a closed mind.​

grace and peace .............

 

[GeneZ]

I studied Greek with my pastor who was my next door neighbor that was fluent in 8 languages. I was tutored by him for 2 years one on one. So one can be educated and learn the Bible and hermeneutics outside of seminary and Bible college.

Yes.... so why have you "accused" me of being seminary trained?
I made no such claim.

Very likely, your pastor would know who my pastor was. My pastor asks for no money to send his messages free of charge. I learned more from him in one hour than I did in three years of Bible college. But I needed those foundational three years first before I could understand what was being taught. Not a penny was asked for! And he taught six evenings a week, and on some days twice! Those who loved him loved him. Those who hated him loved themselves too much.

One night at church service the professor of ancient languages who taught at my Bible college recommended to me the man who was to become my pastor a few years later. I was later told that the professor worked in intelligence during WW ll and had been associated with Harvard... No slouch.

God gives his body a few gifted spiritual men with brains to invent weapons for us to use.
The grunt who fires that weapon as to destroy the enemy, could not invent, nor manufacture, the weapon that God issues to us for warfare.

Most seminaries today have been infiltrated, just like the mainstream media as been infiltrated.
When it came time, I shunned the thought, though I graduated with honors from Bible college (where we were taught to be real people.)

So be it.

Understanding the basics of orthodox Trinity is only a door. What is inside God wants those who have developed enough courage to explore without fear of criticism, or rejection. Playing it safe - timid types - need not apply.

"Watch out! The heresy monster is going to get you!!!

Intimidated.... Like the munchkins who were afraid to come out of their houses.

I know I have been called.

 

[sawdust]

Listen Gene. This site was named after the Bereans for a reason. Whatever they believed in or they proposed was always validated by looking into their Bibles. We now also have the NT so there is no excuse anymore for anyone spewing out thoughts that were not validated against the Bible first.

I suggest you validate what you wrote with the Bible and attach Bible verse references where you make important assertions. That's the Berean environment that the site owners want to foster here. Is that possible for you? Is that asking for too much from you?

The Bereans were more noble than most because it wasn't a matter of "whatever" they believed, they believed exactly what Paul told them and sought to prove him TRUE with scripture not constantly trying to prove him wrong. We bring scripture and you ignore it or misunderstand it. We try to clarify and explain and we are told to prove it with scripture.

Spirit gives birth to spirit (Jn3:6) and you think the Holy Spirit gives birth to Himself.
There is another law at work in our body (Rom.7:23) and you think it applies to human nature. It's not our body that is created in God's image. (Gen.1:27)
Christ is the same today, yesterday and forever (Heb.13:8) but you say He acquired a humanity created at a point in time and became something He was not before.
There are too many verses to list that say we are souls but you make our spirits as what defines us.

You refuse to see the anomalies in your own thinking then turn around and accuse us of being wrong based on your ignorance/misunderstanding of what we are saying.

There is nothing noble about constantly trying to prove people wrong. I don't care how long you have studied the Trinity or Christology, there is always more to learn, more to understand, more detail to clarify. Iron only sharpens iron when one is willing to humble themself and admit there might be something I don't know.

Whatever the Bereans may have believed when Paul began teaching? They set it aside so they could give full attention to believing what he said and then took that belief to the scriptures to see if it held up. They did not compare his teaching to their belief. That is what being noble like the Bereans means.

 

[GeneZ]

The Bereans were more noble than most because it wasn't a matter of "whatever" they believed, they believed exactly what Paul told them and sought to prove him TRUE with scripture not constantly trying to prove him wrong. We bring scripture and you ignore it or misunderstand it. We try to clarify and explain and we are told to prove it with scripture.

BINGO!

Too many assume in cynicism that its their duty to try to see if they can prove someone wrong by searching the Scriptures.
They call themselves "Bereans."

Yet the Bereans Paul said were more noble (open minded) and searched the Scriptures to prove Paul correct!
Open minded for they hungered to prove that what Paul was teaching is true!
For it almost sounded almost too good to be true if they had not.

That is where gems are hidden in the Word, as some with a wrong attitude throw out the gems without sifting out the dirt!

Typical translation...

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, ​

for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures ​

every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11​

A more accurate translation...

These {the Bereans} were more open minded than those in Thessalonica, ​

in that they received and retained the word with an eagerness of mind, ​

and searched the scriptures daily, if these things had it thus and they wished​

it was so {4th class condition -they WISH, then after study they know it to be true.}.​

​

{Note: 'Open minded' was erroneously translated noble in some translations. ​

And, the syntax of the Greek indicates that the Bereans were searching the Old ​

Testament with the purpose of PROVING Paul CORRECT, NOT to prove him wrong ​

as some suggest.}​

The Bereans loved what Paul told them!

In contrast...

The Thessalonicans were cynical like the trigger-happy unholy trio we find here with their heresy six shooters hanging on their hips.
The name Berean (up to now) has been used as a misnomer.

I pray that they finally become like the Bereans really were.

 

[sawdust]

So what is your position? No evidence or know for certain?

The evidence against is clear. Devils believe and are fearful of the damnation they are assured. Knowing the certainty of such damnation, don't you think they'd take action?

I think there is enough evidence to suggest angels are created in the image and likeness of God. They are spirits, God is Spirit. There is the Angel of the Lord who is God yet described as an angel. They can't be redeemed for the same reason those who end up in the lake of fire can't be redeemed. They stubbornly refused to accept The Lord Jesus as LORD. Christ can't die for them because they are spirits and don't die like we do but this is not to say there was not a period of grace for them (The Lord is gracious and merciful). As a parent, I know we allow our children to make mistakes as they learn but there comes a time when accountability must step up to the plate.

The devils believing God exists doesn't mean they trust His word to be true. They don't believe Him in that sense and have been judged for it. They were judged before man was created hence the creation of the lake of fire (Matt.25:41). Their sentence has been suspended based on appeal. The Lord God is allowing Satan to make his case (did God really say? Gen.3:1). It is why we see in Revelation he comes with great wrath because he knows his time is short (Rev.12:12). Satan is trying to create the "Utopia" that only God's kingdom can create. You only need be one degree off course at the start to end up on the rocks over time.

 

[civic]

I too can cite orthodox Trinitarian understanding.
But, once we have that much?

Why do you stop there and fail to gain in more understanding as to why One God is Three?

You do not want understanding?
You just want your merit badge for learning the Trinity?
You just want what you believe to act as is a safe room to hide in?
That approach will only work when you choose to play stupid and stall others when debating other Christians.

You do need to understand more! Much more! You are acting like like a private in basic training who does not want to learn how to used his issued weapon effectively. Instead, you take pleasure in being able to cite each part of your rifle that you break down and reassemble, but not
able to use it in real warfare.

We need to become able to think with answers that would astound a Communist interrogator who has you imprisoned
for being a Christian. As you now are? She/he would laugh at how well you memorized your data, but could not give a
single good reason for God being a Trinity. You would be seen as just another dumb sheep mind, and killed without a problem.

You are not prepared as to avoid needing to be prepared, as you now are. For then you would not be able to disappear when challenged
by truth you can not cope with, and then come back later as if nothing was said; like you habitually have done here.

We need to overcome evil that God already knows we can face. To face it, and overcome it, before that evil tries to overcome you.
In doing so? That the evil, when observing you, will draw back without being able to try. Because it will know it can not get the
dominate position it craves to have over you in order to eliminate you in a pleasurable disdain for those being so dumb. Having
a wise answer destroys their fun.

God's grace can make you wiser than you ever realized you could be...

Just do not resist a new aspect of truth when introduced to you that scares you... and want to hide from it somehow by citing book reports
like a good little boy does.


Not everything God wants you to know is going to be liked by believers. It may even be hated at first!

Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. "

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21

Christians were actually hating what the Spirit was telling them.
To "test" one must avoid running to hide in a closed mind.​

grace and peace .............

Na I debate with atheists and agnostics and hold my own with them

 

[civic]

Yes.... so why have you "accused" me of being seminary trained?
I made no such claim.

Very likely, your pastor would know who my pastor was. My pastor asks for no money to send his messages free of charge. I learned more from him in one hour than I did in three years of Bible college. But I needed those foundational three years first before I could understand what was being taught. Not a penny was asked for! And he taught six evenings a week, and on some days twice! Those who loved him loved him. Those who hated him loved themselves too much.

One night at church service the professor of ancient languages who taught at my Bible college recommended to me the man who was to become my pastor a few years later. I was later told that the professor worked in intelligence during WW ll and had been associated with Harvard... No slouch.

God gives his body a few gifted spiritual men with brains to invent weapons for us to use.
The grunt who fires that weapon as to destroy the enemy, could not invent, nor manufacture, the weapon that God issues to us for warfare.

Most seminaries today have been infiltrated, just like the mainstream media as been infiltrated.
When it came time, I shunned the thought, though I graduated with honors from Bible college (where we were taught to be real people.)

So be it.

Understanding the basics of orthodox Trinity is only a door. What is inside God wants those who have developed enough courage to explore without fear of criticism, or rejection. Playing it safe - timid types - need not apply.

"Watch out! The heresy monster is going to get you!!!

Intimidated.... Like the munchkins who were afraid to come out of their houses.

I know I have been called.

Would you like to call a truce and move forward ?

 

[GeneZ]

I think there is enough evidence to suggest angels are created in the image and likeness of God. They are spirits, God is Spirit. There is the Angel of the Lord who is God yet described as an angel. They can't be redeemed for the same reason those who end up in the lake of fire can't be redeemed. They stubbornly refused to accept The Lord Jesus as LORD. Christ can't die for them because they are spirits and don't die like we do but this is not to say there was not a period of grace for them (The Lord is gracious and merciful). As a parent, I know we allow our children to make mistakes as they learn but there comes a time when accountability must step up to the plate.

The devils believing God exists doesn't mean they trust His word to be true. They don't believe Him in that sense and have been judged for it. They were judged before man was created hence the creation of the lake of fire (Matt.25:41). Their sentence has been suspended based on appeal. The Lord God is allowing Satan to make his case (did God really say? Gen.3:1). It is why we see in Revelation he comes with great wrath because he knows his time is short (Rev.12:12). Satan is trying to create the "Utopia" that only God's kingdom can create. You only need be one degree off course at the start to end up on the rocks over time.

If it walks like a horse?..
If it smells like a horse?
If it sounds like a horse?
It it runs like a horse?
If it eats like a horse?
If cattle rustlers ride them?

Unless the Bible says it explicitly that its in the horse family?

Its not provable!
(signed, the unholy Berean forum trio)

 

[sawdust]

Yes this is yet another example we see when you get the Tri-Unity (Trinity ) wrong it filters down to ones doctrines and the errors pile up upon one another.

You don't even have a Trinity except in titles only. You have Father, Son and Spirit all exactly the same (Deity only) with nothing to distinguish each person.

 

[GeneZ]

Would you like to call a truce and move forward ?

Not yet.
You always fade out and come back later acting like nothing was said.
Its your own fault that I say that.

 

[synergy]

READ!!!!!!!!!!

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, ​

but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. " Hebrews 4:15​

​

Do you actually read what you post? Nowhere does the verse explicitly talk about Jesus' human nature, let alone not being given a "sin nature" that you claim everyone is given. It's Jesus the person that is the subject matter of that sentence and it was Jesus who was tempted, not his human nature.

Read what you post next time to minimize your embarrassments.

​

For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, ​

in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest ​

in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of ​

the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, ​

he is able to help those who are being tempted.. Hebrews 2:17-18​

That's why his soul must be human so that Jesus is made "fully human in every way". Do you now understand your Apollinarian heresy?

YOU THINK GOD CREATED ADAM WITH A SIN NATURE??????

That God was the author of sin creating Adam that way???

That is the BAM Clique Heresy!

You're the one with the paganistic "sin nature" claim. Not me. The heresy is yours.

 

[GeneZ]

You don't even have a Trinity except in titles only. You have Father, Son and Spirit all exactly the same (Deity only) with nothing to distinguish each person.

They are nothing new...

Sabellianism is the belief that instead of being three persons, these are actually three ''modes'' or ''aspects'' of the same god. Sabellianism is a type of Modalism, which is a group of heresies that all refer to different aspects of God instead of different persons.

They deny the reality of humanity of the Son, and the essence of angels of the Holy Spirit.
For example: They without realizing what they say, make the humanity of Christ to be omnipotent,
thus nullifying having a real soul in union with Deity!
They say it was impossible for Jesus to be really tempted.
If he did not face real temptation as a man?
He could not qualify to pioneer the system of faith we are now to walk in!
For it would not be applicable to humans to experience unless they were somehow to be God!

They deny that the humanity of Christ could experience temptation as Adam was tempted before he fell.

They also see being temptable as being the sin nature.
When the sin nature became internally our own source for temptation.
We do not need a serpent to tempt us like the Woman did.
We now, having a sin nature, can do it for ourselves.

In time it can be cleared up...

 

[synergy]

People who have a sin nature receive temptation from within themselves.

Adam having no sin nature needed Satan to act as an externalized sin nature to tempt him.

If Adam had a sin nature?" He would have grabbed that apple without needing anyone else tempting him.

Who teaches a young child to have a temper tantrum?
His own sin nature brings it about naturally.

Now I understand why you are so willing to spew out so many Ad Hominems with no second thoughts about doing that. You can blame it on your sin nature and absolve yourself of any responsibility. Got it!

 

[charismaticlady]

Okay, Not that I believe all you said.... However, I don't see that any of this establishes that Satan did not sin until after man was created.

I agree. I thought that was settled. If not I have nothing to add to what I've already said.

 

[charismaticlady]

However, death and hades have not yet been cast into the lake of fire.

Adam willfully sinned and brought death into the world. Jesus defanged death by His death and resurrection. His children no longer face death [separation from God], but only a physical death [separation of the spirit from the body].

Don't leave out Romans 8:11. Jesus did not sin, but bore our sin. Penal substitutionary atonement. The idea that Jesus fulfilled the law of death, by taking upon Himself our death, the penalty for our sin. (Penal just means penalty) Our penalty for our sin was imputed onto Christ. Our death became His death, that His life may become our life. Even Civic should notice I did not invoke wrath once...

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse anyone. I know that death and hades being thrown in the lake of fire is the last thing that happens regarding this earth.

All you said is true. I'll just add two more things. I'll just print the scriptures:

1 John 3:

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin.

8 For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[synergy]

I too can cite orthodox Trinitarian understanding.
But, once we have that much?

Why do you stop there and fail to gain in more understanding as to why One God is Three?

Please do tell us about your "Trinitarian understanding" as to "why One God is Three". I'll get the Popcorn!!

 

[sawdust]

Now I understand why you are so willing to spew out so many Ad Hominems with no second thoughts about doing that. You can blame it on your sin nature and absolve yourself of any responsibility. Got it!

Actually you haven't "got it" and that's the problem, you never do. You misunderstand just about everything we say and you have no idea you are doing it. So sad.

 

[synergy]

You don't even have a Trinity except in titles only. You have Father, Son and Spirit all exactly the same (Deity only) with nothing to distinguish each person.

We've gone through this many times before. Just look at the names they were each given. For example, the Son is eternally begotten Son of God.

 

[civic]

You don't even have a Trinity except in titles only. You have Father, Son and Spirit all exactly the same (Deity only) with nothing to distinguish each person.

now that’s hilarious since you don’t know the difference between Modalism and Trinitarianism.

 

[sawdust]

Please do tell us about your "Trinitarian understanding" as to "why One God is Three". I'll get the Popcorn!!

Been there done that. You must have been out of the room at the time getting popcorn.