Deliverance from Calvinism

Does not matter what TomL said, man is spiritually dead by nature to the Spiritual things of God, so he can only be at enmity against them
Bet you will be so happy when you get to heaven that no free will will be there.... just you people and those from Israel.
 
The New Testament seeks to clarify, not to mystify, the gospel!

Are not predestination and authentic human freedom of choice both part of “the mystery of the gospel” and integral components of God’s redemptive plan?

Since the Bible nowhere presents predestination as something that continues to be mysterious and hidden, what would now be the point of mystifying this basic truth of the gospel?

In these references the recurrent phrase, “make known the mystery of the gospel.”
2 Assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace (His unmerited favor) that was entrusted to me [to dispense to you] for your benefit,
3 [And] that the mystery (secret) was made known to me and I was allowed to comprehend it by direct revelation, as I already briefly wrote you.
4 When you read this you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ.
5 [This mystery] was never disclosed to human beings in past generations as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles (consecrated messengers) and prophets by the [Holy] Spirit.
6 [It is this:] that the Gentiles are now to be fellow heirs [with the Jews], members of the same body and joint partakers [sharing] in the same divine promise in Christ through [their acceptance of] the glad tidings (the Gospel).
Eph 3:2–6.
9 Also to enlighten all men and make plain to them what is the plan [regarding the Gentiles and providing for the salvation of all men] of the mystery kept hidden through the ages and concealed until now in [the mind of] God Who created all things by Christ Jesus.
10 [The purpose is] that through the church the complicated, many-sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities (principalities and powers) in the heavenly sphere.
Eph 3:9–10.

Paul never attempted to relegate predestination, election, choice, or free will to the realm of hidden things. Nevertheless, Calvin maintained that God not only had a “revealed” will, but also a “secret” will, which was different from, and could even contradict, His declared will.

Let me assure you straight up that God does not have a second, secret will that acts independently of, and can be at variance with, His revealed will. Paul knew that we could always trust our heavenly Father to be totally straight and up-front with His children.
 
The New Testament seeks to clarify, not to mystify, the gospel!

Are not predestination and authentic human freedom of choice both part of “the mystery of the gospel” and integral components of God’s redemptive plan?

Since the Bible nowhere presents predestination as something that continues to be mysterious and hidden, what would now be the point of mystifying this basic truth of the gospel?

In these references the recurrent phrase, “make known the mystery of the gospel.”



Paul never attempted to relegate predestination, election, choice, or free will to the realm of hidden things. Nevertheless, Calvin maintained that God not only had a “revealed” will, but also a “secret” will, which was different from, and could even contradict, His declared will.

Let me assure you straight up that God does not have a second, secret will that acts independently of, and can be at variance with, His revealed will. Paul knew that we could always trust our heavenly Father to be totally straight and up-front with His children.
Yes the 2 wills of God fallacy a bunch of bologna
 
Btw that signature you have by Cheryl Schatz is not biblical. With Drawing comes full conversion to Christ, Spiritual Hearing and. Obedience to the Faith. Give God the Glory !
BTW neither one of us is predestined so neither one of us has to follow what you say
 
Yes, but it does not carry your assumed meaning, for scripture repeatedly shows and speaks of men repenting and believing

BTW it is your theology that does not distinguish between the two, not mine.

It is rather amazing you do not see that.

Also BTW you did not address this.

And you assume what that means and ignore the multiple ways such people are described as well as how scripture speaks of how they may be made alive.
So dead does mean dead then. Good. If you did distinguish between the two you and yours would quit making the same category error. You can be physically alive, yet devoid of Spiritual life.
 
Nope "spiritually" is not mentioned in those texts so why are you adding words to the bible. ?

and why haven't you addressed a single verse I quoted ?

I'm not seeing anything resembling exegesis from you only eisegesis.
I did not say it was in the text. Good try. But a swing and a miss.
 
But those physically alive but separated from God are not in a condition where they can do nothing.

In fact, God repeatedly speaks of and tells them to repent

2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,

2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,

Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”

Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”

Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

ETC
Stopped right there. Category error. NO ONE said they can do nothing. Atheists are very much alive and do many things. Yet Spiritually there are devoid of life. Hence they must be born again or "made alive" as Paul states.
 
Stopped right there. Category error. NO ONE said they can do nothing. Atheists are very much alive and do many things. Yet Spiritually there are devoid of life. Hence they must be born again or "made alive" as Paul states.
Total hogwash, as your theology holds men are not capable of repenting

But those physically alive but separated from God are not in a condition where they can do nothing.

In fact, God repeatedly speaks of and tells them to repent

2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,

2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,

Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”

Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”

Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

ETC
 
So dead does mean dead then. Good. If you did distinguish between the two you and yours would quit making the same category error. You can be physically alive, yet devoid of Spiritual life.
But spiritual death is not physical death nor is your view of it correct

For scripture states dead men can repent

2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,

2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,

Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”

Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”

Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.

Draw near to God

James 4:8-10
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. / Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter to mourning, and your joy to gloom. / Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.

return to the Lord

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.

Choose to serve God

Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”

Choose life

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.

The crushing of your theology
 
But spiritual death is not physical death nor is your view of it correct

For scripture states dead men can repent

2 Chronicles 6:24 (LEB) — 24 “And if your people Israel are defeated before an enemy because they have sinned against you and they repent and confess your name and pray and plead before you in this house,

2 Chronicles 6:37 (LEB) — 37 but if they repent in the land where they were taken captive and repent and beg you for mercy in the land of their captivity, saying, ‘We have sinned and acted perversely and done wickedly,

Ezekiel 18:30 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.

Ezekiel 18:32 (LEB) — 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “And so repent and live!”

Zechariah 1:6 (LEB) — 6 However, did not my words and my regulations which I commanded my servants the prophets overtake your ancestors? And they repented and said, ‘Yahweh of hosts planned to do with us according to our ways, and according to our deeds so he has dealt with us.’ ” ’ ”

Matthew 3:2 (LEB) — 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near!”

Matthew 4:17 (LEB) — 17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 11:21 (LEB) — 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41 (LEB) — 41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Mark 1:15 (LEB) — 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!

Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.

Draw near to God

James 4:8-10
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. / Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter to mourning, and your joy to gloom. / Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.

return to the Lord

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.

Choose to serve God

Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”

Choose life

Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”

Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.

The crushing of your theology
Crushed like grapes 😂
 
Run to your nearest cemetery and test our your premise.
No thank you.

I stay away from cemeteries

Isaiah 26:19 .
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/ISA.26.19
Ai is clearer...The bodies in the ground are considered dead, as the Bible teaches that when a person dies, their body is not alive, while the soul or spirit of a believer goes immediately to heaven. The term "sleeping" is often used to refer to the state of the body, not the soul, which is awaiting resurrection.

Got Q ~It’s true that, in some places, the Bible speaks of those who have died as being asleep. Daniel 12:2 describes the resurrection as the time when “multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake.” The New Testament speaks of believers who are “asleep” in Jesus. In 1 Corinthians 15:6, Paul speaks of those who are “still living,” in contrast to those who have “fallen asleep” (see also verses 18 and 20). Luke relates the death of Stephen with the words, “He fell asleep” (Acts 7:60), much the same as how Jesus describes Lazarus in John 11:11 and Jairus’s daughter in Luke 8:52. So, for those who expect a resurrection, sleep is a metaphor for death.

Death is a “sleep” for the believer because it is temporary; the resurrection is the “awakening.” But what exactly is it that sleeps, and what is awakened? It is the body, not the soul. A body, when dead, appears to be resting in sleep, and that gives rise to the metaphorical usage of sleep. But the soul does not sleep. The moment we experience physical death, our souls are transferred to a different place. For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6–8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22–23).


Until the final resurrection, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4)—and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13–14). According to Jesus’ account in Luke 16:19–31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. The three individuals in Jesus’ story—Lazarus, Abraham, and the rich man—are quite conscious and active in the afterlife, prior to the resurrection.

Moses and Elijah were not “sleeping” when they appeared with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. Far from it. They were “talking with Jesus” (Matthew 17:3). Luke gives some additional detail, relating the subject of their conversation: “They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem” (Luke 9:31).

In Revelation 6, John sees “the souls of those who had been slain” in heaven (verse 9). These souls are not sleeping; rather, they are crying out “in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’” (verse 10). They are given white robes and “told to wait a little longer” (verse 11). Nothing in this heavenly scene hints at a state of unconsciousness, oblivion, or sleep prior to the resurrection. The souls in heaven are wide awake.

Still, it can be said that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. And that is just how the Bible pictures it. At the resurrection, the body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess forever, whether in heaven or hell. The redeemed, made righteous by the blood of Christ, will inhabit the new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1). The unredeemed, who remain in their sin, will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11–15).
 
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