Daniel's 70 weeks and the Messiah

[SteveB]

Trying to get you to believe truth.

But you're failing miserably.

And you're doing so because you ignore the descriptions I give you.
You ignore the reference materials I provided.
You tell me you don't have to read. Which shows me that you don't actually have any interest to understand enough of what I'm saying to better detail your beliefs.
you clearly only want to win an argument.
you mock the materials and teachers I've built the opinions i have.

so... truth?
No you don't.
You're only trying to get me to agree with you so you can have another notch on your ego.

Why are you so adverse,

Because you're acting like a jerk.
I can go talk to jerks over on CARM and their atheist forum. They're trying to get me to believe what they think is the truth.

Why would I want to talk to someone who does exactly what the atheists do?

that you even had to deny Christ was anointed

According to Daniel 9:24-27, he's not.

 

[TomL]

But you're failing miserably.

And you're doing so because you ignore the descriptions I give you.
You ignore the reference materials I provided.
You tell me you don't have to read. Which shows me that you don't actually have any interest to understand enough of what I'm saying to better detail your beliefs.
you clearly only want to win an argument.
you mock the materials and teachers I've built the opinions i have.

so... truth?
No you don't.
You're only trying to get me to agree with you so you can have another notch on your ego.

Duh you gave me man's opinion and the reference material you gave was more of the same

I gave you scripture

Scripture shows the decree came from Cyrus

Scripture showed Christ was anointed at his baptism,

Scripture shows atonement had to happen in the 70 weeks not outside of it as you posit

Why would you have me reject the word of God and go read your reference books?

I cannot make you believe the word of God over your theology but I can show what scripture states

That you choose to ignore it is on you


y

Because you're acting like a jerk.
I can go talk to jerks over on CARM and their atheist forum. They're trying to get me to believe what they think is the truth.

Why would I want to talk to someone who does exactly what the atheists do?

According to Daniel 9:24-27, he's not.

 

[Doug Brents]

@Doug Brents says: "There is no predicted sign that has not already happened at least once."

Would you call the LORD a liar?

Matthew 24:3
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be?
And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

According to @Doug Brents there should be nothing said by the LORD Jesus after His disciples asked Him =
"And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”


For everyone who believes like @Doug Brents, just rip out Matthew chapter 24 after verse 1

Because

Everything in Matt 24 has already been fulfilled except for the actual return of our LORD (Matt 24:29-31) and the things that come after His return as laid out in Rev 19 & 20.

 

[DavidTree]

Everything in Matt 24 has already been fulfilled except for the actual return of our LORD (Matt 24:29-31) and the things that come after His return as laid out in Rev 19 & 20.

Good Morning Brother @Doug Brents,

Let us Break Bread together and LOOK - n- SEE

v6 - See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
v7 - famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
v8 - All these are the beginning of sorrows. = continuous tribulation that increases till the End

v13 - But he who endures to the end shall be saved. = continuous waiting in faith for the LORD
v14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

"to all nations" = for over 2,000 Years this has NOT yet been fulfilled - but we are getting closer by the day

Now PAY ATTENTION Brother Doug and all you that hold to the heresy of pre-trib rapture

Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”

This Prophecy of Daniel comes AFTER the Prophecy of the LORD (v14)

WAKE UP (repent/change your mind/go in the direction of TRUTH) to Righteousness
and BELIEVE the word of the LORD

 

[Doug Brents]

Good Morning Brother @Doug Brents,

Let us Break Bread together and LOOK - n- SEE

v6 - See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
v7 - famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
v8 - All these are the beginning of sorrows. = continuous tribulation that increases till the End

v13 - But he who endures to the end shall be saved. = continuous waiting in faith for the LORD
v14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

"to all nations" = for over 2,000 Years this has NOT yet been fulfilled - but we are getting closer by the day

The Gospel was preached to all the world within the first century (Rom 16:25-27, Col 1:5-6, 23).

Now PAY ATTENTION Brother Doug and all you that hold to the heresy of pre-trib rapture

Ahh, I do NOT hold to a pre-trib rapture. I believe we are in the Tribulation NOW, and that the rapture will occur at the instant of the second coming, when the entirety of creation will be destroyed.

Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”

This Prophecy of Daniel comes AFTER the Prophecy of the LORD (v14)

WAKE UP (repent/change your mind/go in the direction of TRUTH) to Righteousness
and BELIEVE the word of the LORD

The prophecy of the "abomination of desolation" was fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. There will be no fleeing from the second coming of the Lord, as they were told to do in Matt 24:16-18.

 

[DavidTree]

The Gospel was preached to all the world within the first century (Rom 16:25-27, Col 1:5-6, 23).

Ahh, I do NOT hold to a pre-trib rapture. I believe we are in the Tribulation NOW, and that the rapture will occur at the instant of the second coming, when the entirety of creation will be destroyed.

The prophecy of the "abomination of desolation" was fulfilled in the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. There will be no fleeing from the second coming of the Lord, as they were told to do in Matt 24:16-18.

The Jews in Jerusalem will be running yet AGAIN = Zechariah chapter 14

You are not SEEING because your heart is unbelieving towards the very words of the LORD.

The major sin of christianity in this lateness of the hour = having itching ears and allowing men to fill them


Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”
This Prophecy of Daniel comes AFTER the Prophecy of the LORD (v14)

Prophecy fulfilled and continuing
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Read and BELIEVE Zechariah chapter 14

 

[Doug Brents]

They will be running yet AGAIN = Zechariah chapter 14

You are not SEEING because your heart is unbelieving towards the very words of the LORD.

The major sin of christianity in this lateness of the hour = having itching ears and allowing men to fill them


Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”
This Prophecy of Daniel comes AFTER the Prophecy of the LORD (v14)

Prophecy fulfilled and continuing
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Read and BELIEVE Zechariah chapter 14

Please show me where Zechariah 14 says the abomination of desolation comes after the second coming.

Zechariah 14:1-8 deals with the first coming of Jesus. When He stood on the Mount of Olives, and when Living Water flowed out of Jerusalem. So yes, the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel does come after the first coming, as Jesus foretold in Matt 24, and that happened before that generation died (AD70).

 

[DavidTree]

Please show me where Zechariah 14 says the abomination of desolation comes after the second coming.

Zechariah 14:1-8 deals with the first coming of Jesus. When He stood on the Mount of Olives, and when Living Water flowed out of Jerusalem. So yes, the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel does come after the first coming, as Jesus foretold in Matt 24, and that happened before that generation died (AD70).

Please show me where Zechariah 14 says the abomination of desolation comes after the second coming.

Now you demand from God to change His Prophetic word to satisfy your desire?

Prophecy of His Second Coming is shared throughout the Holy Scriptures.
They are Building Blocks(for God's children) that tell us what to expect and look for.

Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.” - Isaiah 28:10

Zechariah ch14
1Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished(raped)
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You. = 1 Thessalonians ch3 & ch4 & Jude & Rev ch19

 

[Doug Brents]

Prophecy of His Second Coming is shared throughout the Holy Scriptures.
They are Building Blocks(for God's children) that tell us what to expect and look for.

Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.” - Isaiah 28:10

Zechariah ch14
1Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,

This is the FIRST COMING, not the second.

And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished(raped)
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You. = 1 Thessalonians ch3 & ch4 & Jude & Rev ch19

All of this was accomplished during and just after the first coming of Christ. None of this is still awaiting fulfillment.

 

[TomL]

Please show me where Zechariah 14 says the abomination of desolation comes after the second coming.

Zechariah 14:1-8 deals with the first coming of Jesus. When He stood on the Mount of Olives, and when Living Water flowed out of Jerusalem. So yes, the abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel does come after the first coming, as Jesus foretold in Matt 24, and that happened before that generation died (AD70).

Gentry writes

The siege of Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14:1-2 has to do with the A.D. 70 devastation of Jerusalem. Pentecost admits that the disciples who heard the Olivet Discourse would naturally have applied Zechariah 14 to the A.D. 70 destruction of the Temple. But then, he says, such involves a confusion of God’s program for the Church with that for Israel.3 So, he and other dispensationalists interpret the passage literalistically, with all the topographical and redemptive historical absurdities intact. As they do this, they totally omit any reference to the destruction of the very city and Temple being rebuilt in Zechariah’s day. This literal Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, as all agree. Verses 1 and 2 picture the imperial forces of Rome in conjunction with the various client kings involved in A.D. 67-’70. The war was conducted by an empire of “nations” (v. 2) consisting not only of the nation of Italy, but the lands or nations of Syria, Asia Minor, Palestine, Gaul, Egypt, Britain, and others.4 The consequences are disastrous: much of the population of Israel is led captive. Yet the Lord defends those who are truly His people, insuring their escape from the besieged city (V. 3-4).

He shall have dominion by Kenneth Gentry

 

[DavidTree]

This is the FIRST COMING, not the second.

All of this was accomplished during and just after the first coming of Christ. None of this is still awaiting fulfillment.

Zechariah chapter 14 is His Second Coming there Dougy

 

[TomL]

Good Morning Brother @Doug Brents,

Let us Break Bread together and LOOK - n- SEE

v6 - See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
v7 - famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
v8 - All these are the beginning of sorrows. = continuous tribulation that increases till the End

v13 - But he who endures to the end shall be saved. = continuous waiting in faith for the LORD
v14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
and then the end will come.

Some interesting verses concerning verse 14
Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

Longing to Go to Rome

Rom. 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom. 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”

Rom. 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

Col. 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,

Col. 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[DavidTree]

Some interesting verses concerning verse 14
Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

Longing to Go to Rome

Rom. 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.

Rom. 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for
“Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”

Rom. 16:25 Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages 26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—

Col. 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,

Col. 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Good verses but not what the LORD prophesied in Matthew ch24

 

[TomL]

Good verses but not what the LORD prophesied in Matthew ch24

How does it differ?

 

[Doug Brents]

Zechariah chapter 14 is His Second Coming there Dougy

Dougy? Please, be respectful.

No, Zechariah 14 is not about His second coming. Chapter 9 through 14 are about the first coming of Christ. All of Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled. It is very figurative language, not to be taken literally, but it has already happened.
"On that day there will be no light; the luminaries will die out. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at the time of evening there will be light."
Did this not happen while Jesus was on the cross?
"And on that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter."
Is Jesus not the "Living Water", and at His death did He not cover all the World in His life-giving water forever?

 

[DavidTree]

Dougy? Please, be respectful.

No, Zechariah 14 is not about His second coming. Chapter 9 through 14 are about the first coming of Christ. All of Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled. It is very figurative language, not to be taken literally, but it has already happened.
"On that day there will be no light; the luminaries will die out. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at the time of evening there will be light."
Did this not happen while Jesus was on the cross?
"And on that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter."
Is Jesus not the "Living Water", and at His death did He not cover all the World in His life-giving water forever?

Duggy,

i SEE that you are dug-in with unbelief.

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

 

[Doug Brents]

Duggy,

You are not mature enough to discuss this with me. Take your childishness elsewhere, and come back when you are ready to be an adult about it.

 

[DavidTree]

How does it differ?

For me to KNOW and for you to Find out................that is how God works

AND this is how you come to Know = Matthew 4:4

“It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

 

[DavidTree]

You are not mature enough to discuss this with me. Take your childishness elsewhere, and come back when you are ready to be an adult about it.

At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

 

[TomL]

For me to KNOW and for you to Find out................that is how God works

AND this is how you come to Know = Matthew 4:4

“It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

That is a strange reply. You claimed they differed. I would think the onus is on you to show how