"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord” (Romans 10:9–13)

[jeremiah1five]

Gen 17 is about Gentile Salvation, Abrahams Spiritual Seed Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations[gentiles] have I made thee.
The word nations gôy:
nation, people

1. nation, people
   1. usually of non-Hebrew people
   2. of descendants of Abraham
   3. of Israel

Its translated gentiles ,people etc

heathen (143x), Gentiles (30x), people (11x).

Also the first promise to Abraham was international in scope Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You think all the families of the earth is talking about one nation of israel ? NO Its all Spiritual

There is no Gentile (non-Hebrew) salvation in Genesis 17. God specifically identifies Abraham as a Hebrew...

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew;
Gen. 14:13.

and that the Abraham Covenant is to pass to his Hebrew son, Isaac, and then to Jacob, who both were descendants of Eber from where we get the Hebrew family.
When a Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman have a child that child is not born non-Hebrew (Gentile.)
And you are wrong to say Genesis 17 identifies Gentiles as part of the Abraham Covenant. For some reason you ignore the covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his Hebrew seed. You see, Gentiles were already in existence through the seeds of Ham and Japheth and that Gentiles descendant from Ham and Japheth are not part of the covenant. It is the descendants of Eber that are possessors of the covenant with God:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis17:6–7.

Gentiles (non-Hebrews) do not come from the seed of Abraham and his Hebrew wife, Sarah. Clearly, you contradict the Scripture. For some reason you believe that a Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman have non-Hebrew children just as two Chinese parents can birth an Italian child. Truly, your theology is wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

There is no Gentile (non-Hebrew) salvation in Genesis 17. God specifically identifies Abraham as a Hebrew...

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew;
Gen. 14:13.

and that the Abraham Covenant is to pass to his Hebrew son, Isaac, and then to Jacob, who both were descendants of Eber from where we get the Hebrew family.
When a Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman have a child that child is not born non-Hebrew (Gentile.)
And you are wrong to say Genesis 17 identifies Gentiles as part of the Abraham Covenant. For some reason you ignore the covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his Hebrew seed. You see, Gentiles were already in existence through the seeds of Ham and Japheth and that Gentiles descendant from Ham and Japheth are not part of the covenant. It is the descendants of Eber that are possessors of the covenant with God:

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis17:6–7.

Gentiles (non-Hebrews) do not come from the seed of Abraham and his Hebrew wife, Sarah. Clearly, you contradict the Scripture. For some reason you believe that a Hebrew man and a Hebrew woman have non-Hebrew children just as two Chinese parents can birth an Italian child. Truly, your theology is wrong.

Genesis 17. is about the spiritual seed of Abe in all nations, nothing about physical descendants of national israel Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

This is about Abe being the Father of MANY NATIONS not ethnic israel.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

no one is IN CHRIST until they believe as Paul said in several places which I quoted.

next fallacy

No one can say to be in Christ unless bears the fruit of Christ, and lives the life of Christ.

Let's examine the evidence:

Let's start with what Jesus said:
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit. (John 15:5)
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

Paul explained that being in Christ means walking according to the desires flesh, but according to the fruit of the spirit.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

And we have an ample evidence of this in the First Epistle of John:

He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. (1 John 2:6)
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him (1 John 3:6)
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. (3:24)
If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. (4:12)
God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. (4:16)


If we see a person walking as Christ walked, loving as Christ loved, manifesting not the fruit of the flesh but the fruit of the spirit, that person is in Christ. This is sound doctrine taken from Scriptures.

Whoever thinks to be in Christ because of the doctrines held, is mistaken.

 

[civic]

No one can say to be in Christ unless bears the fruit of Christ, and lives the life of Christ.

Let's examine the evidence:

Let's start with what Jesus said:
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit. (John 15:5)
"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

Paul explained that being in Christ means walking according to the desires flesh, but according to the fruit of the spirit.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

And we have an ample evidence of this in the First Epistle of John:

He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. (1 John 2:6)
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him (1 John 3:6)
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. (3:24)
If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. (4:12)
God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. (4:16)


If we see a person walking as Christ walked, loving as Christ loved, manifesting not the fruit of the flesh but the fruit of the spirit, that person is in Christ. This is sound doctrine taken from Scriptures.

Whoever thinks to be in Christ because of the doctrines held, is mistaken.

No one is in Christ until they are born again.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Gen 17 is about Gentile Salvation, Abrahams Spiritual Seed Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations[gentiles] have I made thee.
The word nations gôy:
nation, people

1. nation, people
   1. usually of non-Hebrew people
   2. of descendants of Abraham
   3. of Israel

Its translated gentiles ,people etc

heathen (143x), Gentiles (30x), people (11x).

Also the first promise to Abraham was international in scope Gen 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You think all the families of the earth is talking about one nation of israel ? NO Its all Spiritual

Let's look at the text and then let's look at the reality:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: Gen. 12:2.

You want to define "nation" as referring to Gentiles (non-Hebrew) but that would be incorrect for you don't get Gentiles as an offspring from two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah.) Gentiles as a non-Hebrew, non-Abraham seed, people were already in existence through Ham and Japheth.

It is quite biologically impossible for two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah) to birth a non-Hebrew Gentile (Isaac, and later, Jacob.) So, "nations" in Genesis 12:2 is not referring to non-Hebrews. It is a geneic term to refer to a people. You can't define "nation" as referring to Gentiles when the word is also used for the NATION of Israel. So, what is the text really referring to? Let's take another text having to do with "nation" and also the inclusion of "kings" in the text:

1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. Gen. 15:1–5.

At this time in Abraham's life the heir of Abraham's possessions was a man named "Eliezer of Damascus" (vs. 2.)
Abraham challenged the Lord about what He said in Genesis 12:2 about his being a "great nation" and him not having a son that would fulfill the Lord's words in Gen. 12. A true heir would in this time and place and culture would be someone who was born to Abraham, not a servant as Eliezer of Damascus, who was not of Hebrew stock but born a descendant of Ham or Japheth. In verse 4 the Lord promises that a son would be born to Abraham who at the time was 90 years old. Verse 5 records the Lord showing through representation of the thousand of stars in the night sky that Abraham would indeed by a man who would birth a great people born from his loins represented by thousands of stars. This takes us to Genesis 17:

2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. Gen. 17:2–8.

Now, if you are paying attention to the text and to the reality of definition of the words used you would see that "nations" does not mean "Gentiles" for it is biologically impossible for two Hebrew parents, Abram and Sarai, to birth a non-Hebrew Gentile in Isaac. Here is the breakdown:

Verse 2-4 describes God promising Abram that he would be a "father of many nations." Again, the word "nation" does not mean "Gentile" as you define it. It merely means "people."
Verse 5 records that God Himself will make this happen and God speaks in the past-tense as though it has ALREADY happen: "for a father of many nations have I made thee."

Verse 6 says the following:

"And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee."

The "nations" and "kings" that are mentioned by God would "come out of thee" meaning his descendants. These "nations" and "kings" would be Abraham's seed, and as we look further down in the text of Scripture we see two children born from Abraham's seed: Ishmael, the first born who was the offspring of Abraham and Hagar, a servant of Sarai whom she gave to Abraham in order to self-fulfill the prophecy of God that Abraham would have a son. The problem here is that God mentioned as part of the prophecy of being a great "nation" of people that the child would miraculously come from Sarai who was old and past child-bearing age. Issac would be a miracle-child:

Now, pay attention:

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:15–16.

In both Genesis 17:6 and 17:16 the "nations" and "kings" would "come out of thee" and "be of her." In other words, these two descendants of Eber, from whom the word "Hebrew" derives would have child and children that would be those "nations" (of people) and "kings" (of people) that would "come out of thee" (Abraham), and shall "be of her" (Sarah.) And again, the use of "nations" here does not mean "Gentile" because it is biologically impossible for two Hebrew parents to birth a non-Hebrew child (Isaac.)

Through both mother's, Hagar and Sarah, both had children from Abraham (seed), one was named "Ishmael" and the other, "Isaac", and both are Abraham's seed, and the word here at the time does not mean Gentile" because there were already Gentiles in existence through Noah's other two sons, Ham and Japheth", but Abraham is born a descendant of Eber from who the word "Hebrew" derives. God Himself through the Spirit and through Moses who wrote the Genesis called Abram a Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and God Himself is making a distinction between the descendants of Ham and Japheth, and Eber, a son of Salah (Gen. 11.)

If you remember, Ishmael had 12 sons and already the seed of Abraham through Hagar is already becoming a "nation" of people. The other line that "come out of thee" (Abraham) is one of the two sons of Isaac: Esau (and Jacob.) So, stopping right here both Ishmael and Esau would fulfill the seed that comes out of thee (Abraham) through Hagar and Sarah, and it is this seed-line of Abraham through whom God would make "nations" of peoples and "kings" of people that would be born to him, thus fulfilling the prophecy that Abraham's seed (Ishmael and Esau, along with Jacob), would be as the stars in the sky.

So, no, there is no prophecy that Gentiles would come out of Abraham and so, your interpretation of the texts above is flawed for the term "nations" does not mean "Gentiles" for it is biologically impossible for a non-Hebrew child (Gentiles) to be born to two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah.")

Your interpretation is in error.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Genesis 17. is about the spiritual seed of Abe in all nations, nothing about physical descendants of national israel Gen 17:5

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

This is about Abe being the Father of MANY NATIONS not ethnic israel.

No, it's talking about the natural seed of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob were not spiritual beings, they were from Adam who was of dirt (dust.) There is nothing spiritual about dust of the physical earth. You are being too spiritually minded to be of any earthly good. You must see as God sees and you don't. It was God who separated Abram from the rest of the Hamites and Japhetite's. And he done this through a people obedient to God - Salah and his children (Eber) and the ethnical distinction was solidified through circumcision, which is a sign of that ethnical distinction and separation for not everyone was circumcised, ONLY ABRAHM AND HIS SEED (including Ishmael and Esau.)

Again, your interpretation of the text is in error.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: Gen. 12:2.

Dude do you think that great nation is the physical nation of israel according to the flesh ? Its not, its a spiritual nation, the church that belongs to Christ 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
ethnic fleshly israel over in the mid east is in dakness to this day
God is speaking about this Nation Matt 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
This is the Church actually made up of mostly Gentile converts, the Church brings forth spiritual converts for the Kingdom, not national israel, they never have, except for a small remnant who the nation would persecute and kill

You want to define "nation" as referring to Gentiles (non-Hebrew)

Dude, the word nation means Gentiles gôy:
nation, people

1. nation, people
   1. usually of non-Hebrew people
   2. of descendants of Abraham
   3. of Israel

גּוֹי gôwy, go'-ee; rarely (shortened) גֹּי gôy; apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Verse 6 says the following:

"And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee."

Its Spiritual fruit, the Church redeemd by Christ the Seed to whom all the promises of God are made

Look what Christ redeemed the Church unto Rev 5:9-10


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

These are spiritual matters, you thinking carnally like the deceived jews of old and even now

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's talking about the natural seed of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob were not spiritual beings, they were from Adam who was of dirt (dust.) There is nothing spiritual about dust of the physical earth. You are being too spiritually minded to be of any earthly good. You must see as God sees and you don't. It was God who separated Abram from the rest of the Hamites and Japhetite's. And he done this through a people obedient to God - Salah and his children (Eber) and the ethnical distinction was solidified through circumcision, which is a sign of that ethnical distinction and separation for not everyone was circumcised, ONLY ABRAHM AND HIS SEED (including Ishmael and Esau.)

Again, your interpretation of the text is in error.

No its talking spiritual, Isaac was a picture of that which is spiritual, a child of promise, he was born after the Spirit Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Sure he was initially born naturally like everyone is, the Spiritual seed first is natural, then spiritual as Per 1 Cor 15 47

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Isaac spiritual birth was 100% certain as is all the elect, because they are Abrahams spiritual seed

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five
Dude do you think that great nation is the physical nation of israel according to the flesh ? Its not, its a spiritual nation, the church that belongs to Christ 1 Pet 2:9

The idea of any "spiritual" mention was never a part of the Abraham Covenant. The focus was on a physical heir of Abram that would be born to him and Sarah.

1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. Gen. 15:1–4.

The whole discussion and expectation had to do with a physical heir of all Abram owned, not a spiritual one. The mention of anything "spiritual" did not come into the picture until hundreds of years later. Here in the 21st century we have hindsight of the history of the children of Israel and can now see there was to be a spiritual aspect to God's promises but in the day and age of Abraham they prophecy had to do with a physical birth: Isaac.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
ethnic fleshly israel over in the mid east is in dakness to this day
God is speaking about this Nation Matt 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
This is the Church actually made up of mostly Gentile converts, the Church brings forth spiritual converts for the Kingdom, not national israel, they never have, except for a small remnant who the nation would persecute and kill

From Genesis to Malachi is a record of God dealing with one people: the descendants of Abraham. Gentiles are not included in the three covenants God made with Abraham and then with his descendants. Gentiles are not in any of the three covenants God made and which we find the history of Abraham's descendants, a people known as the children of Jacob, or Israel. God made no covenant with Gentiles and upon this truth no Gentiles are promised salvation. God never promises such a thing. It is your erroneous interpretation that is in grave error.

The point is that natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olve tree Israel when the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL made His Presence known on the Jewish day of the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost), and when this happened there were no Gentiles that were among the three thousand saved and born-again (Acts 2ff.)

The Church Christ promised to build was populated at the beginning and going forward was with Jews. These are the people He came to save:

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matt. 1:21.

"His people" are the Hebrew people and seed of Abraham, a people of twelve tribes all "Jewish."

Dude, the word nation means Gentiles gôy:
nation, people

1. nation, people
   1. usually of non-Hebrew people
   2. of descendants of Abraham
   3. of Israel

Its Spiritual fruit, the Church redeemd by Christ the Seed to whom all the promises of God are made

Look what Christ redeemed the Church unto Rev 5:9-10


9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

These are spiritual matters, you thinking carnally like the deceived jews of old and even now

The word "nations" ("goy") when it was used in Genesis 10 only means "massing" (of people.) It didn't come to identify non-Hebrews until much later. It didn't mean "Gentile" until hundreds of years later. But as a word to identify "people" of both "seed of the woman" and "seed of the serpent" that's how it is defined: "massing" (of people.)

All three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, and New) do not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. The three Hebrew covenants only included Abraham and his Hebrew seed - NOT GENTILES.

Why is that?
Because God never made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles, or any people other than Abraham and his Hebrew seed through Isaac, Jacob, and the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No its talking spiritual, Isaac was a picture of that which is spiritual, a child of promise, he was born after the Spirit Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Sure he was initially born naturally like everyone is, the Spiritual seed first is natural, then spiritual as Per 1 Cor 15 47

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Isaac spiritual birth was 100% certain as is all the elect, because they are Abrahams spiritual seed

God never made any mention of "spiritual" anything when He made promise with Abraham. It was all about a PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham to inherit all he possessed otherwise he'd have to leave it all to "Eliezer of Damascus" one of his servants. It was hundreds of years later, after they came out of Egypt that through the Mosaic Covenant that there would bve a spiritual aspect to the promises God gave to the children of Israel through the Mosaic Covenant, which is still a Hebrew covenant with no non-Hebrew Gentiles even mentioned. In hindsight we can see there was to be a spiritual aspect to God's promises but with Abraham it was only a physical seed: Isaac.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

The idea of any "spiritual" mention was never a part of the Abraham Covenant. The focus was on a physical heir of Abram that would be born to him and Sarah.

Doesn't have to be mentioned as you say, its implied by theological comparison and considerations. Neither was it about the literal fleshly/physical descendants of Abraham, thats just the flesh, it was about the children of promise, a spiritual seed, which Isaac typified Rom9:6-9

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The word flesh here sarx means:

used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship

So you in grave error, blind by jewish traditions and fables

 

[Complete]

Dwight92070 said:-
Amen! And the word "elect" and "chosen" are the same Greek word - so Jesus is the Chosen One or the Elect One, and all of us are chosen or elect in Him, because we put our faith in Him.

Praise God!

 

[Complete]

'For the scripture saith,
Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto ALL that call upon Him.
For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
(Rom 10:11-13)

Praise God! For His mercy and His grace

 

[civic]

'For the scripture saith,
Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto ALL that call upon Him.
For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
(Rom 10:11-13)

Praise God! For His mercy and His grace

Amen !

 

[brightfame52]

@dwight92070

Dwight92070 said:-
Amen! And the word "elect" and "chosen" are the same Greek word - so Jesus is the Chosen One or the Elect One, and all of us are chosen or elect in Him, because we put our faith in Him.

Were you elect/chosen in Him b4 you put faith in Him ?

 

[civic]

@dwight92070



Were you elect/chosen in Him b4 you put faith in Him ?

no after I believed.

no one is in Christ before they believe. read and believe Ephesians 1 and stop denying the Bible.

next fallacy.

 

[brightfame52]

no after I believed.

no one is in Christ before they believe. read and believe Ephesians 1 and stop denying the Bible.

next fallacy.

I want to see what the poster says, I know what you believe

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

'For the scripture saith,
Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:
for the same Lord over all is rich unto ALL that call upon Him.
For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.'
(Rom 10:11-13)

Praise God! For His mercy and His grace

Dear Complete

I invite you to read the whole chapter and the whole epistle.
Paul was very worried about the division between Jews and Greeks within the church.
To bridge that division Paul is saying that it doesn’t matter if some are circumcised and others are not… if some keep the Law of Moses and some don’t … what matters is that they all confess to follow Christ.

Paul is not advocating for a superstition: the belief that by uttering some magical formula a man will be saved.
Paul knew that saying “Lord, Lord” did not please Jesus, but doing what He commanded.
Paul knew that a change of heart (“the circumcision of the heart”) and keeping God’s commandments was the true proof of discipleship.

Any demon can confess that Christ is Lord, or resurrected. Any demon can confess anything he wants.
But no demon can transform a person into one who bears the fruit of the spirit.

So, instead of expecting the Muslim or the Sikh to utter a magical formula, expect them to follow Jesus steps… to walk as He walked… to love his neighbor as Jesus loved them.
That is the only true confession.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

The focus was on a physical heir of Abram that would be born to him and Sarah.

That was Isaac, yet he pictured Abrahams Spiritual Seed versus his carnal seed that you glory in Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. Note: The brethren here are any believer in Christ regardless of ethnicity !

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No its talking spiritual, Isaac was a picture of that which is spiritual, a child of promise, he was born after the Spirit Gal 4:28-29

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Sure he was initially born naturally like everyone is, the Spiritual seed first is natural, then spiritual as Per 1 Cor 15 47

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Isaac spiritual birth was 100% certain as is all the elect, because they are Abrahams spiritual seed

Your interpretation is so very convoluted. You apply things to the text that simply are not there.

Now, show me in the Abrahamic Covenant recorded in chapter 12, 15, and 17 the idea or concept - even the doctrine - that Isaac's birth is a spiritual birth. Much to the point anything spiritual came into view through Moses centuries later.

You can look at everything in hindsight but by doing so you insert into the text things not there.

Now, prove your spiritualizing the birth of Isaac in 12, 15, and 17.