"Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord” (Romans 10:9–13)

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

As the Scripture records in Saul's letter to Rome. He is writing to a people ALREADY saved.

I actually agree with this statement, except the writer is an Apostle name Paul not saul Rom 1:1-8

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

He is writing them he heard of their Faith, so what he is writing including Rom 9-11 is to people with Faith rather jew or gentile Rom 1:15-16

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you[people of faith] that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes election , predestination are in Christ. No one is in Christ until they hear, receive, believe the gospel. Ephesians 1.

False the elect are in Christ by election union before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

 

[civic]

Amen! And the word "elect" and "chosen" are the same Greek word - so Jesus is the Chosen One or the Elect One, and all of us are chosen or elect in Him, because we put our faith in Him.

Ditto

 

[civic]

False the elect are in Christ by election union before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

Nope keep reading 11-13.

In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

And Paul here

Romans 16:7: "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me"

 

[brightfame52]

@dwight92070

Amen! And the word "elect" and "chosen" are the same Greek word - so Jesus is the Chosen One or the Elect One, and all of us are chosen or elect in Him, because we put our faith in Him.

False, Jesus as Gods elect, had a seed chosen in Him which made them elect also, Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Both Jesus and His Seed were chosen together before the foundation of the world

Peter alludes to their joint heirship in election, He writes Jesus is elect 1 Pet 2:4,9

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

The word generation is also offspring or seed, theyre Christs seed/offspring, Both elect

 

[brightfame52]

Nope keep reading 11-13.

In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

And Paul here

Romans 16:7: "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me"

Yes they are in Christ by election. Thats the whole elect seed.

Rom 16 7 is about elect individuals who were converted to Christ b4 Paul was, but from the eternal perspective, all the elect are in Christ together before the foundation

Just like with Adam, all his children were in him in seed form at the beginning of the world, but his son abel was born, manifested as his son b4 seth was, yet they both were in Adam in the beginning

 

[civic]

Yes they are in Christ by election. Thats the whole elect seed.

Rom 16 7 is about elect individuals who were converted to Christ b4 Paul was, but from the eternal perspective, all the elect are in Christ together before the foundation

Just like with Adam, all his children were in him in seed form at the beginning of the world, but his son abel was born, manifested as his son b4 seth was, yet they both were in Adam in the beginning

no one is IN CHRIST until they believe as Paul said in several places which I quoted.

next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

no one is IN CHRIST until they believe as Paul said in several places which I quoted.

next fallacy

You just cant see it

 

[Fred]

Saul wrote to a people ALREADY saved and he quoted the Old Testament to encourage the "beloved of God, called saints." (Rom. 1:7.)

Boring.

I already addressed what you asserted in post 20.

 

[civic]

You just cant see it

projecting

Paul said there were 2 people who were IN CHRIST before he was in Christ- they were saved before Paul was saved.

conclusion: no one is IN CHRIST until they believe.

if what you believe was true then Paul would be a liar since he never said he was in Christ before he believed and before the world was created.

If as you falsely believe all the elect were in Christ before creation at the same time then once again Paul would be a liar saying they were IN CHRIST before he was.

next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

projecting

Paul said there were 2 people who were IN CHRIST before he was in Christ- they were saved before Paul was saved.

conclusion: no one is IN CHRIST until they believe.

if what you believe was true then Paul would be a liar since he never said he was in Christ before he believed and before the world was created.

If as you falsely believe all the elect were in Christ before creation at the same time then once again Paul would be a liar saying they were IN CHRIST before he was.

next fallacy

No you cant see it

 

[civic]

No you cant see it

that would be you since I gave you several passages from Paul saying he and others were not in Christ until after they believed the gospel.

how can I be in disneyland until I go there, purchase my ticket and walk into the park ?

you would have everyone believe you were in disneyland when you were at your home- thats a lie just like being in Christ before you believe the gospel is a lie.

 

[brightfame52]

that would be you since I gave you several passages from Paul saying he and others were not in Christ until after they believed the gospel.

how can I be in disneyland until I go there, purchase my ticket and walk into the park ?

you would have everyone believe you were in disneyland when you were at your home- thats a lie just like being in Christ before you believe the gospel is a lie.

you cant see it, i even took the time to explain it to you

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



I actually agree with this statement, except the writer is an Apostle name Paul not saul Rom 1:1-8



He is writing them he heard of their Faith, so what he is writing including Rom 9-11 is to people with Faith rather jew or gentile Rom 1:15-16

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you[people of faith] that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

There is significance Saul said "Greek" and not Gentile. He is referring to Hellenized Jews who after 15-21 generations after the remnants' return remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were a people "[who] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" Eph 2:12.

But they were still as mixed heritage Hebrews Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

And God does keep His promises.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Boring.

I already addressed what you asserted in post 20.

The thing is that what I said is supported by the text.
Not even God gives that which is holy - His Word - to dogs (Gentiles.)
Nor does He cast His Pearls (His Word) to swine (Gentiles.)

 

[brightfame52]

There is significance Saul said "Greek" and not Gentile. He is referring to Hellenized Jews who after 15-21 generations after the remnants' return remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were a people "[who] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" Eph 2:12.

But they were still as mixed heritage Hebrews Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

And God does keep His promises.

Yes they are Gentiles. Gentile Salvation was prophesied Rom 15:8-12

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision[jews] for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Pauls mission was to make the Gentiles obedient to the Gospel Rom 15:16-18

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

So you are denying scripture friend

 

[Fred]

The thing is that what I said is supported by the text.
Not even God gives that which is holy - His Word - to dogs (Gentiles.)
Nor does He cast His Pearls (His Word) to swine (Gentiles.)

Romans was also addressed to Gentiles (Romans 11:13).

Simple.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans was also addressed to Gentiles (Romans 11:13).

Simple.

Yes Both for there were both believing jews and Gentiles who believed in Rome, for Paul was writing to believers in General, all who had Faith Rom 1:8

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.